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geoff
22-06-2012, 06:00 PM
spoke to a couple of jims in recent days ( always up for a chat ) anyway a few are concerned with the latest requirement imposed by jim to conform to OH&S .Some of these are going to cost them some serious bucks , for example , protective pants and hard hats to be used for all hedge trimming actions,special clamps for ladders,platform to be used over a certain height...I do agree with being ultra but with additional costs how do they factor that in the price....
They me the are going to check up on the jims boys..apparently one of the jims fell off a roof which has led to this stringent policy...there are numerous other requirements too and will get that info in time...
Probably agree with it and no doubt every operator will have to if not already be totally OH&S compliant ...all the procedures now required from companies and schools has forced us into it...interesting though how far jims are going into this and maybe some of the jims can fill us in with some more stuff...
To be a professional and space yourself from the cowboys full compliance is a must...

ian
22-06-2012, 06:13 PM
i think if Jims don't have this as a requirement and also as part of their training then Jims itself could possibly be held at least partly responsible for an accident ie: lack of training

Lockie
22-06-2012, 07:00 PM
Its not just for Jims this is the new OH&S standard being brought in.
Ladder locks for all gutter work
Chainsaw chaps for hedging.
No using a hedgetrimmer/polepruner on a ladder. Must have 3 points of contact to ladder at all times 2 feet and 1 hand.
More safety documentation.
Lots and lots of complete bullpoo, but is becoming the lay of the land.

geoff
22-06-2012, 07:03 PM
geez Fred looking at your pics your gunna have to charge dentist rates to cover your stuff.lol..you to courty:laughing::laughing:

ian
22-06-2012, 07:05 PM
chainsaw chaps for hedging now that's silly why can't i use the chaps that do the mowing :)

Fred's mowing
22-06-2012, 07:12 PM
Im all 4 safety but................
Lets see the documentation?
Cheers Fred.

geoff
22-06-2012, 07:14 PM
exactly if its:law then show me the doc....also for safety and practice same ..but as Fred said show me the docs

Fred's mowing
22-06-2012, 07:17 PM
Ive only just recently visited their site. Did'nt see any of that?
More info please.
Cheers Fred.

geoff
22-06-2012, 07:19 PM
whos site freddy

Fred's mowing
22-06-2012, 07:20 PM
Worksafe.
Cheers Fred.

geoff
22-06-2012, 07:30 PM
how would you know with so much info..getting headache must watch footy..drink beer mmmmmmmmmm beer

AJD Mowing
22-06-2012, 07:36 PM
spoke to a couple of jims in recent days ( always up for a chat ) anyway a few are concerned with the latest requirement imposed by jim to conform to OH&S .Some of these are going to cost them some serious bucks , for example , protective pants and hard hats to be used for all hedge trimming actions,special clamps for ladders,platform to be used over a certain height...I do agree with being ultra but with additional costs how do they factor that in the price....
They me the are going to check up on the jims boys..apparently one of the jims fell off a roof which has led to this stringent policy...there are numerous other requirements too and will get that info in time...
Probably agree with it and no doubt every operator will have to if not already be totally OH&S compliant ...all the procedures now required from companies and schools has forced us into it...interesting though how far jims are going into this and maybe some of the jims can fill us in with some more stuff...
To be a professional and space yourself from the cowboys full compliance is a must...

I have said before about the building trade getting to regulated but its mainly on the comercial side of things and project homes, even though normal domestic work is under the same laws it isnt policed because its to hard to do (unless something hapens)... I guess when you think of it the franchises would be easy to hit as they regulate the franchisors then they regulate the franchisees..

A great reason to be an Indi ;)

Fred's mowing
22-06-2012, 07:45 PM
how would you know with so much info..getting headache must watch footy..drink beer mmmmmmmmmm beer

X2, should be a great game.
Will go up to Sydney in a few weeks to watch the Saints kick arse!:smileydevil.
Cheers Fred.

PaulG
22-06-2012, 08:03 PM
Okay so we are going to have to erect scaffolding now to do hedging are we?

Redeye
22-06-2012, 08:08 PM
would this apply to everyone re sole traders or whether you employ others?

Lockie
22-06-2012, 08:14 PM
Okay so we are going to have to erect scaffolding now to do hedging are we?

This is what we have been told. As i said they said its coming in (work Safe).

Fred's mowing
22-06-2012, 08:23 PM
Told by who???
Cheers Fred.

Lockie
22-06-2012, 08:35 PM
This is all coming from work safe. They got involved when an employee of a zee fell from a roof and shattered his knee and did some other damage.

glassngrass
22-06-2012, 08:41 PM
... Jims itself could possibly be held at least partly responsible for an accident ie: lack of training

From memory, the franchise contracts require each franchisee to specifically name the franchisor, division and Jim's head office as additional insured parties on the franchisee's policy.
YOU pay the premium and the excess to defend your upline.
Further, I understand Franchisees have also granted Jim power of attorney to act in your behalf to defend the interests of your upline - even if not in YOUR interest.

Please do correct me if I am mistaken....any Jimmies?

South East Mowing
22-06-2012, 09:01 PM
Told by who???
Cheers Fred.

I think the OH&S laws are becoming standardized across all states - at least thats what the Fed govt. are trying to do. Victoria, tasmania and another state are lagging behind and have not adopted/accepted the new stuff yet.

Still a little more time :i dunno: a year or 2 I think

geoff
22-06-2012, 09:06 PM
trouble is with this stuff is there are too many he said she said....no one on here really know whats going on....we need a solid confirmation of the law not just i think this or we have been told....

courty
22-06-2012, 09:15 PM
I'm ok,I already have chaps but only my misses see's me in em :o

Lawn Mowing Professionals
22-06-2012, 09:19 PM
This is all coming from work safe. They got involved when an employee of a zee fell from a roof and shattered his knee and did some other damage.

Why was he mowing on the roof :doh

Simmo.

Lawn Mowing Professionals
22-06-2012, 09:27 PM
trouble is with this stuff is there are too many he said she said....no one on here really know whats going on....we need a solid confirmation of the law not just i think this or we have been told....

Did you know?

New work health and safety (WHS) laws replaced the occupational health and safety (OHS) laws in NSW on 1 January 2012.

These new laws will provide greater consistency, certainty and clarity across Australia making it easier to understand your workplace health and safety duties. Businesses and volunteer organisations that operate over several states will be able to initiate nationwide safety policies and procedures.

Well, you learn something new every day.

I think safety will always be based on common sense :wave-hi:

Simmo.

imoww
22-06-2012, 09:56 PM
So if we don't know about these "NEW LAWS"...
Then how are we responsible if we don't conduct our business under these new OH&S terms?
Who's gonna inform us legally????

ASTRO
22-06-2012, 10:11 PM
Extended pole-hedger + 3.0m A-frame ladder = Brilliant combination!!
I use it on 50% of my hedge work.
It would be a sad day to let that one go through over-regulation.
Working with heights is like management,you can either do it or you shouldnt.
It seems the new regulations are initiated to allow for the 5%,that affects everyone involved in the workplace.
Cheers astro.

PaulG
22-06-2012, 11:12 PM
Okay so we are going to have to erect scaffolding now to do hedging are we?


This is what we have been told. As i said they said its coming in (work Safe).


So a $100 hedging job will become a $1000 hedging job. If this happens it will be time to get out of this industry. Bloody ridiculous.

Lawn Mowing Professionals
23-06-2012, 12:31 AM
So if we don't know about these "NEW LAWS"...
Then how are we responsible if we don't conduct our business under these new OH&S terms?
Who's gonna inform us legally????

Reality is no one is going to inform you, it's up to you as a business owner.

work cover / work safe (or whatever its called in your state or territory) provides there information online and they can also send info out to you. I have an OH&S white card (I think they were called green cards before) which does absolutely nothing (will be required to get commercial work) but I chose to pay and get that.

A.T.O (taxation), D.F.T (fair trading) and other government agencies are all the same... if you don't sign up and regularly check the law and abide fully within the law, you are liable (fully responsible and accountable) if you know the law or not.

Usually, you only get investigated (red flagged) if there is an accident (workcover), customer complaint (fair trading) or claiming to many tax deductions (ATO). Sometimes, you can be "dobbed in" by a competitor or dissatisfied client.

There is probably an "opportunity" to informing small business owners (for a small fee ;)) there current obligations to owning a business with a subscription to updates for your industry.

Simmo.

Lawn Mowing Professionals
23-06-2012, 12:48 AM
So a $100 hedging job will become a $1000 hedging job. If this happens it will be time to get out of this industry. Bloody ridiculous.

That's some expensive scaffolding :rolleyes:

Don't know how Jimbo's will compete though (to cover the addition expense and extra labour time) as it will be an unlevel playing field... They will probably create a smart marketing campaign that will justify the additional cost to the client.

Maybe I'll just stick to lawn mowing and 3 foot hedges :laughing:

Simmo.

ASTRO
23-06-2012, 01:07 AM
That's some expensive scaffolding :rolleyes:

Don't know how Jimbo's will compete though (to cover the addition expense and extra labour time) as it will be an unlevel playing field... They will probably create a smart marketing campaign that will justify the additional cost to the client.

Maybe I'll just stick to lawn mowing and 3 foot hedges :laughing:

Simmo.

Simmo you may require temporary fencing in the near future.:frightene
Maybe Mr penman is advising the goverment regulators on their guidelines.

PaulG
23-06-2012, 01:28 AM
Imagine how much of a pain that would be. Carting scaffolding around, erecting it, moving it, packing it up etc etc. What a joke.

ASTRO
23-06-2012, 01:43 AM
Paul imagine the situation for solo operators.:dean:

Stripes
23-06-2012, 09:25 AM
Could be an opening for people specialising in tall hedges with all the required gear....

Fred's mowing
23-06-2012, 10:07 AM
I think the OH&S laws are becoming standardized across all states - at least thats what the Fed govt. are trying to do. Victoria, tasmania and another state are lagging behind and have not adopted/accepted the new stuff yet.

Still a little more time :i dunno: a year or 2 I think

Thanx John 4 the heads up.
Checked the NSW OHS & the way I read it u cant trim a hedge from a ladder?
The cost of hedging will become prohibitive, leading to home owners having a go, resulting in more accidents?
Cheers Fred.

4 Gardens
23-06-2012, 11:38 AM
Thanx John 4 the heads up.
Checked the NSW OHS & the way I read it u cant trim a hedge from a ladder?
The cost of hedging will become prohibitive, leading to home owners having a go, resulting in more accidents?
Cheers Fred.

Just had a look at ACT site, cant find anything about ladders or hedges, does anyone have a link to this for their state please?

fairdinkum
23-06-2012, 11:45 AM
So a $100 hedging job will become a $1000 hedging job. If this happens it will be time to get out of this industry. Bloody ridiculous. I agree mate. Hard enough to get decent money out of people as it is.

PaulG
23-06-2012, 12:27 PM
Paul imagine the situation for solo operators.:dean:

Exactly. Which most of us are.


I agree mate. Hard enough to get decent money out of people as it is.

I did a job yesterday which I invoiced at $160 including tip fees/time. About 25 metres of Murraya trimmed on both sides, done at eye level height. But I had one section of hedge only 4 metres long which was trimmed at about 2.4 metres high. I had to access the neighbours yard also to do that side and top where I couldn't reach on step-ladder from my customer's yard.

I don't know what scaffolding costs to buy or hire but to erect it, possibly disassemble it, move it to the neighbours yard, assemble it again, then disassemble it again to pack up would easily add another two hours and that's just for 4 metres of hedge.

I wonder if trestles resting on ladders will suffice? I know a lot of people are doing that.

Stupid thing that I read on page 1 though was that using a ladder you must always maintain three points of contact. That means electricians etc will no longer be able to use ladders either if they are working with both hands!

geoff
23-06-2012, 12:36 PM
certainly going to make us rethink the process of hedge trimming.Some of these mobile scaffoldings cost over 3k and more to buy...then as paul says erecting,transporting,all time..will the customer pay,obviously not as the cowboys will take over...Although i notice the guys repainting roofs have to have scaffolding work safe have been cracking down on these guys with up to 10k fines,maybe that will happen to us...have to look at light weight scaffolds that meet the standards and are relative easy to maneuver,us in Vic should perhaps be doing that quickly before its law...at the end of the day its safety but the customer will have to pay....people still get their roofs done and pay the extra for scaffolding ..so why not the same for hedges

PaulG
23-06-2012, 12:49 PM
I'm going to head out next week to one of the scaffold companies here and have a chat I think. The other options are the tractor mounted articulated hedgers but you need to the tractor, the attachment, and the space to use it, and about $35,000.oo

PaulG
23-06-2012, 12:50 PM
Could be an opening for people specialising in tall hedges with all the required gear....

Niche market. ..

geoff
23-06-2012, 12:50 PM
regards to the scaffolding you probably need a frigging licence to erect the fcking thing

PaulG
23-06-2012, 12:52 PM
I like this. Built-in steps too.

http://www.safeplatforms.com/pdfs/brochure.pdf

NLALM
23-06-2012, 01:03 PM
We may have to ring Jims scaffolding the erection specialists

geoff1969
23-06-2012, 01:12 PM
regards to the scaffolding you probably need a frigging licence to erect the fcking thing

you used to not sure about now , think it was under the scaffolding / construction rules , you had to have a certificate for it under ohs

courty
23-06-2012, 04:03 PM
All I can say is BOLLOCKS.
Red tape gone farkin crazy.

ASTRO
23-06-2012, 04:36 PM
I'm going to head out next week to one of the scaffold companies here and have a chat I think. The other options are the tractor mounted articulated hedgers but you need to the tractor, the attachment, and the space to use it, and about $35,000.oo

If your after scaffolding/ladders/Hydraulic+scissor lifts + other saftey items try sourcing from liquidated businesses at auction houses canbe purchased for a fraction of their original cost.For example pickles,mgs,evans&clark.
Love to see julia + swan set-up a scaffolding rig.:clap:
They may need it with the amount of ---- their in.:eyes:

Fred's mowing
23-06-2012, 06:56 PM
I like this. Built-in steps too.

http://www.safeplatforms.com/pdfs/brochure.pdf
Try gettin that into a well vegetated garden bed, then moving it again &again & again.:dean:
Cheers Fred.

South East Mowing
23-06-2012, 07:12 PM
certainly going to make us rethink the process of hedge trimming.Some of these mobile scaffoldings cost over 3k and more to buy...then as paul says erecting,transporting,all time..will the customer pay,obviously not as the cowboys will take over...Although i notice the guys repainting roofs have to have scaffolding work safe have been cracking down on these guys with up to 10k fines,maybe that will happen to us...have to look at light weight scaffolds that meet the standards and are relative easy to maneuver,us in Vic should perhaps be doing that quickly before its law...at the end of the day its safety but the customer will have to pay....people still get their roofs done and pay the extra for scaffolding ..so why not the same for hedges

Not quite the profit margin in hedging. Do you know the sort of prices they charge for roofing. They can and do absorb much of the cost

Fred's mowing
23-06-2012, 07:14 PM
certainly going to make us rethink the process of hedge trimming.Some of these mobile scaffoldings cost over 3k and more to buy...then as paul says erecting,transporting,all time..will the customer pay,obviously not as the cowboys will take over...Although i notice the guys repainting roofs have to have scaffolding work safe have been cracking down on these guys with up to 10k fines,maybe that will happen to us...have to look at light weight scaffolds that meet the standards and are relative easy to maneuver,us in Vic should perhaps be doing that quickly before its law...at the end of the day its safety but the customer will have to pay....people still get their roofs done and pay the extra for scaffolding ..so why not the same for hedges
Cz good hedges require doing alot more frequently.
Cheers Fred.

Benny1
23-06-2012, 07:33 PM
Maybe there might be a new jims division setting up shortly lol

Classic Cut
23-06-2012, 07:40 PM
Don't know how Jimbo's will compete though (to cover the addition expense and extra labour time) as it will be an unlevel playing field... They will probably create a smart marketing campaign that will justify the additional cost to the client.

Maybe I'll just stick to lawn mowing and 3 foot hedges :laughing:

Simmo.

All Contractors regardless of Franchise or Indy are in the same boat. The push for change will come from not only Work Safe, but switched on Commercial and Strata customers who will be up to date with OH&S law and request SWMS (Safe Work Method Statements) on commencement of each job. The business owner will also have to induct all staff and subcontractors and have monthly training with sessions signed off on by both parties.

As a Jim I am greatfull that Jim has taken the steps to see that all Franchisees understand their requirements. But like Indies there will always be the Franchisee that runs by the seat of their pants and does as they please regardless of the law. Luckily they will not be around for long and generally attract the same type of customer.

Benny1
23-06-2012, 07:48 PM
Totally agree Classic

Safety is the most important thing on any job

Bluey
25-06-2012, 09:14 AM
Extended pole-hedger + 3.0m A-frame ladder = Brilliant combination!!
I use it on 50% of my hedge work.
It would be a sad day to let that one go through over-regulation.
Working with heights is like management,you can either do it or you shouldnt.
It seems the new regulations are initiated to allow for the 5%,that affects everyone involved in the workplace.
Cheers astro.

Yes you can bet on it. Most workplace safety laws come into fruition due to common stupidity. Unfortunately the other 95% have to bear the brunt of the 5% stupidity

Bluey
25-06-2012, 09:18 AM
Could be an opening for people specialising in tall hedges with all the required gear....


Saw 1 last week. Indy mob. Had big van and they were doing massive hedge in North Adelaide. Only problem I could see was that to do it they were blocking the footpath and obviously had no Council approval to do so as there were no diversions for pedestrians. So one law comes and that cause you to run afoul of another.

Redeye
25-06-2012, 12:52 PM
Yes you can bet on it. Most workplace safety laws come into fruition due to common stupidity. Unfortunately the other 95% have to bear the brunt of the 5% stupidity

exactly right Bluey

geoff
25-06-2012, 04:04 PM
We all agree that as per usual laws are designed for fools..but neverless what are we going to do to comply with this eventual law.....Not take on hedging jobs requiring a ladder or look at and through the law to overcome the problem ?? What are jims doing,are they using expensive scalfolds or fancy designed ladders to comply??? come on jims boys we give plenty to the forum what are your proposed actions???

Scooby Steve
25-06-2012, 07:03 PM
Operators wont follow the law if it comes in regard to hedging requirments people hate paying what we ask now so how they going to like an extra fee on top simply they wont and they will use backyard operators and run the risk of something going wrong. If it does get policed i can see a big market for hedge removals lol.

Lots of Jimmies wearing masks around my way even for mowing and brushcutting be good if they go the whole hog with this OH&S stuff as there prices will go through the roof.




I know plenty of Indi's who dont have a guard on there whippies thats a OH&S requirement isn't it.

In fact Admin you might want to have a look at the $1000 prize thread as i think the winning vid has a guardless machine operating in it, might not be the best look in light of recent events.

Chris B
25-06-2012, 07:39 PM
get yourself one of these lawn mowing suits scooby :)

mandatory soon

5134

Classic Cut
25-06-2012, 07:56 PM
Operators wont follow the law if it comes in regard to hedging requirments people hate paying what we ask now so how they going to like an extra fee on top simply they wont and they will use backyard operators and run the risk of something going wrong. If it does get policed i can see a big market for hedge removals lol.

Lots of Jimmies wearing masks around my way even for mowing and brushcutting be good if they go the whole hog with this OH&S stuff as there prices will go through the roof.




I know plenty of Indi's who dont have a guard on there whippies thats a OH&S requirement isn't it.

In fact Admin you might want to have a look at the $1000 prize thread as i think the winning vid has a guardless machine operating in it, might not be the best look in light of recent events.

As a Jim I will gladly take all the commercial work and leave the domestic jobs to the cowboys and those that don't want to be OH&S compliant.

Scooby Steve
25-06-2012, 08:21 PM
As a Jim I will gladly take all the commercial work and leave the domestic jobs to the cowboys and those that don't want to be OH&S compliant.

Mate plenty of commercial places down here in Melbourne would rather save the money than go full OH&S. I've seen the operators they use now no fluro's, no guards on brushies, ride-on mowers, etc etc. All the backyarders will be rubbing there hands with glee if this gets through.

Scooby Steve
25-06-2012, 08:23 PM
Swamped with more paperwork and safety stuff people with common sense dont need lovely.

Soon i'll need to wear mesh gloves just to go fishing!

OH&S for the bedroom is that next for the nanny country?

Fred's mowing
25-06-2012, 08:23 PM
As a Jim I will gladly take all the commercial work and leave the domestic jobs to the cowboys and those that don't want to be OH&S compliant.

In regard to hedging & ladders, what does OH&S mean to u? (Genuine question).
Cheerd Fred.

Lockie
25-06-2012, 08:34 PM
We all agree that as per usual laws are designed for fools..but neverless what are we going to do to comply with this eventual law.....Not take on hedging jobs requiring a ladder or look at and through the law to overcome the problem ?? What are jims doing,are they using expensive scalfolds or fancy designed ladders to comply??? come on jims boys we give plenty to the forum what are your proposed actions???
I will be investing in a good trestle set up for starters. Jims are sourcing affordable scaffolding ( its not just the mowing guys this impacts on, so bulk buying power of Jims Group should help out there). I've already convinced 2 clients to let me reduce the size of the their hedges (not all will do this i know). Generally i will prune hedges the way i have for the last 12yrs for my regs, but any new jobs i will weigh up whether its worth the risk or not. (you fall and injure ur self and the insurance mob find out u hav'nt followed OH&S ur buggered) I will also prob subbie out big hedges to OH&S compliant Hedging specialists or tree guys (whether their Jimmies or indies).

Its all a pain in the backside, but thats the way its going so its keep up or fall behind i guess.

Classic Cut
25-06-2012, 08:45 PM
Mate plenty of commercial places down here in Melbourne would rather save the money than go full OH&S. I've seen the operators they use now no fluro's, no guards on brushies, ride-on mowers, etc etc. All the backyarders will be rubbing there hands with glee if this gets through.

The laws are already in Scooby. And cowboys can rub their hands together all they like, it will keep them warm I suppose.

geoff
25-06-2012, 08:49 PM
thanks lockie for your input appreciate that....be interesting to share what type of scalfolding you manage to arrange and approximate costs.....
Dont worry scoob laws will come here too....the roof men said the same untill work safe delivered the fines ......me i think my limit will be three foot height hedges the way things look ..dunno if i could provide an erection and then perform the task ...hedging that is

Scooby Steve
25-06-2012, 09:00 PM
So where do u put the scaffold on your ute Geoff?



Me thinks a few commercial clients will be ripping out there hedges very soon.




And as Fred mentioned sometimes it just not possible to set up scaffold in certain spots how do will get around it then.


Has anyone read into properly? Maybe sole traders will be exempt from some of it.

PaulG
25-06-2012, 09:09 PM
As members asked earlier in this topic where can we read the new legislation?

geoff
25-06-2012, 09:12 PM
agree scoob...pretty serious subject and cant be taken with a grain of salt...need to work this through ..maybe jimmies have the answer ??? loclie has said reduce the hedges , if its law to become then that will apply to existing clients lockie so what do you with that....sole operator or not scoob wont make a difference to work safe..seen sole operators get the piece of paper from work safe...

Cranbourne Lawnmowing
25-06-2012, 09:13 PM
It may all be a pain in the ass but eventually it will become common practice and we all just take it on. It is what it is, no different to thinking dont put your hand in the mower chute. We can all fight it as much as we like but the longer we fight it the longer it will be a thorn in our sides. Just think, that safe scaffolding might mean you go home to your kids on a day that could have been your last.

Lockie
25-06-2012, 09:14 PM
It may all be a pain in the ass but eventually it will become common practice and we all just take it on. It is what it is, no different to thinking dont put your hand in the mower chute. We can all fight it as much as we like but the longer we fight it the longer it will be a thorn in our sides. Just think, that safe scaffolding might mean you go home to your kids on a day that could have been your last.
Could'nt agree more

geoff
25-06-2012, 09:15 PM
exactly Glenn ..has to be a way we can win from this not just jimmies..ahhh maybe we go to the private section and reveal our masterplan ...

Scooby Steve
25-06-2012, 09:15 PM
Come on Jimmies where r all u guys when we want some info? Point us to where we can view the documentation ourselves. Thanks for sharing your info so far Lockie good stuff i think :frightene.

geoff
25-06-2012, 09:22 PM
sorry to start this thread but the can of worms are exploding hey???` got to be a positive in this....

Lockie
25-06-2012, 09:25 PM
agree scoob...pretty serious subject and cant be taken with a grain of salt...need to work this through ..maybe jimmies have the answer ??? loclie has said reduce the hedges , if its law to become then that will apply to existing clients lockie so what do you with that....sole operator or not scoob wont make a difference to work safe..seen sole operators get the piece of paper from work safe...

I will be explaining and selling the new OH&S rules to my clients pretty hard over the next few months, so i will see how that goes. I can see me using subbies tho.

PaulG
25-06-2012, 09:27 PM
One positive I can think of - working on a scaffold/platform won't be near as tiring as trying to balance, twist, and reach on a ladder.

Cranbourne Lawnmowing
25-06-2012, 09:28 PM
exactly Glenn ..has to be a way we can win from this not just jimmies..ahhh maybe we go to the private section and reveal our masterplan ...

It may cost more money to buy more equipment but how much work do you turn away because you wouldn't feel safe doing it. Yet if you had a good scaffold for instance......no worries I can do that. Its paying for itself.

Chris B
25-06-2012, 09:37 PM
worksafe victoria:

s.21. Duties of employers(1) An employer shall provide and maintain so far as is practicable for employees a working environment that is safe and without risks to health.




info sheet on ladders: (victoria)
http://www.worksafe.vic.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/f618b0004071f48e9dfedfe1fb554c40/WSV958_02_08.10.pdf?MOD=AJPERES


i used a scafold setup at one of my customers... its was really good. had two A frame 'ladder things' and 2 planks. very sturdy.. a bit of a pain but then you dont need to move as much as a ladder as you can walk across the plank (up to about 3 or 4 metres roughly) all made of alloy so fairly lightweight considering the size

i think they said it was $800 so not too much for the product you get (this was commercial quality)

Fred's mowing
25-06-2012, 09:46 PM
Thanx 4 your input Lockie MUCH appreciated.
At this stage it seems to be all over the place. Ive now looked at 3 states OH&S & the interpretations of these to me are quite vague.
Nothing specifically relating to our industry. Not sure where its all headed or how long it will take to get there.
IMHO if it gets regulated to the point that we need to errect scaffolding around hedges this will not be a viable option.
It will simply become cost prohibitive.
Being a Vic, whats your interpretation of our regs. At present can u trim a hedge from a ladder & be OH&S compliant?
Cheers Fred.

geoff
25-06-2012, 09:51 PM
yes in vic,but didn't you find out that in nsw you cannot from a ladder..besides why are jimmies going down this track or is it a ploy to scare us off:laughing::laughing:

South East Mowing
25-06-2012, 09:51 PM
sorry to start this thread but the can of worms are exploding hey???` got to be a positive in this....

You can embrace change or you can fight it!

Make it part of your business plan, PUT IT ALL IN THE PRIVATE SECTION AND HELP EACH OTHER OUT:)

geoff
25-06-2012, 09:54 PM
like to know what the jimmies are doing john,maybe we have to stay in the open but know what you are saying me brother

ian
25-06-2012, 09:56 PM
could it be Jims is just trying to drum up business for Jims scaffolding :laughing:

geoff
25-06-2012, 09:58 PM
gee Ian you could be right there....get into the jimmie forum and find out more lol

Scooby Steve
25-06-2012, 10:00 PM
It may cost more money to buy more equipment but how much work do you turn away because you wouldn't feel safe doing it. Yet if you had a good scaffold for instance......no worries I can do that. Its paying for itself.

Its not just the money though Cranbourne what about the time loading the scaffolding before you leave home, unloading it and erecting it at the job site, taking it apart once your done, transporting it home again, then finding room to put it somewhere when you get it home. R your clients going to cover you for all that extra time and effort or r you going to have to absorb the costs. Its alright to say you'll just pass the costs on but customers already have extra costs this year carbon tax for one is making many commercial clients very nervous and this on top wont go down well.

South East Mowing
25-06-2012, 10:00 PM
Thanx 4 your input Lockie MUCH appreciated.
At this stage it seems to be all over the place. Ive now looked at 3 states OH&S & the interpretations of these to me are quite vague.
Nothing specifically relating to our industry. Not sure where its all headed or how long it will take to get there.
IMHO if it gets regulated to the point that we need to errect scaffolding around hedges this will not be a viable option.
It will simply become cost prohibitive.
Being a Vic, whats your interpretation of our regs. At present can u trim a hedge from a ladder & be OH&S compliant?
Cheers Fred.
My understanding is you can use them up to certain heights depending on type of job undertaken, for how long and if there other safer options and if you have done a risk assessment orr SWMS.

I would say for hedging jobs of under a few hours, under 2 mtrs or so, on stable ground, in good weather conditions, where safe work practices are followed (not over reaching etc) and you are continually needing to move that ladder then the ladder is the way to go, just use your SWMS and there should never be a problem

but then again i am not a work safe inspector

Lockie
25-06-2012, 10:02 PM
To me it has'nt started yet. We got the heads up because of the accident to the zees employee. I think Stripes said earlier it might take a year or 2 to be up running (it might not too) But its coming that is for sure, how hard its enforced i dont know, i still see roofing guys, painters, builders etc not using safety rails/harnesses. But what worries me is as i've said before if u injure ur self and wer'nt following the OH&S insurance will not touch u.

geoff
25-06-2012, 10:05 PM
Lockie you are spot on..might not be on here in vic but will be eventually...so maybe we need to plan ...plan not to do it and do something else or plan for it to work and charge accordingly, we have time maybe its worth testing the market to see how it will go...

PaulG
25-06-2012, 10:06 PM
Lockie do you guys have to do Working At Heights training/certification?

I know an Indy here who has done a course to be able to do gutters etc on single story dwellings! He told me it's a requirement - not just something he did because he felt like it.

geoff
25-06-2012, 10:11 PM
i reckon we need to approach work safe as an organisation and get the facts as what is required now and whats in the pipeline for the future...get it from the horses mouth...reckon they would listen to an organisation
as big as our for them to take the time to listen and reply?????

Lockie
25-06-2012, 10:15 PM
Lockie do you guys have to do Working At Heights training/certification?

I know an Indy here who has done a course to be able to do gutters etc on single story dwellings! He told me it's a requirement - not just something he did because he felt like it.
No, not for single storey, but to be able to recieve work from the office for 2 storey buildings or tree work over 4 meters yes. I hav'nt and dont intend to do the course. When i first started i used to run around second storey roof tops doing gutters like i was superman, but im 45 now and have 2 kids, i see things differently now.

Fred's mowing
25-06-2012, 10:15 PM
Its all way to vague. As an example,
Define scaffolding?
To me trestles & planks are different to scaffolding.
You need to be a lawyer, there;s so much thats open to interpretation.
I just read the vic link that Chris posted up AGAIN, its just not clear!
Most of it seems to be directed at thje building industry.
Cheers Fred.

geoff
25-06-2012, 10:16 PM
we need the horses mouth version fred

glassngrass
25-06-2012, 10:19 PM
worksafe victoria:

s.21. Duties of employers[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Verdana](1) An employer shall provide and maintain so far as is practicable for employees a working environment that is safe and without risks to health.


Practicable depends on things like - size of business, number of employees, how often you would do this task, economic constraints, experience, time in business....

Lockie
25-06-2012, 10:20 PM
we need the horses mouth version fred

The problem there is it seems, which horse has the definitive mouth, we are talking about a government department after all!!

Fred's mowing
25-06-2012, 10:23 PM
Practicable depends on things like - size of business, number of employees, how often you would do this task, economic constraints, experience, time in business....

& where do we get that info from????
Cheers Fred.

geoff
25-06-2012, 10:29 PM
yes lockie but unfortunately for us its the government department that dictates what the law will be ??

Fred's mowing
25-06-2012, 10:29 PM
& where do we get that info from????
Cheers Fred.
Sorry, it would br clearer to ask how do we assess that info in relation to a person climbing a ladder & performing a task?
Cheers Fred.

Chris B
25-06-2012, 10:34 PM
the laws are made because some ppl dont use common sense but you need to use your common sense to follow them :)

the way i decipher is this: can use ladder as long as its safe to do so

PaulG
25-06-2012, 10:36 PM
& where do we get that info from????
Cheers Fred.

Worksafe Queensland has a Youtube channel. It hasn't been updated for over a year. Typical.

http://www.youtube.com/user/WorkSafeQueensland

Fred's mowing
25-06-2012, 10:36 PM
Its all way to vague. As an example,
Define scaffolding?
To me trestles & planks are different to scaffolding.
You need to be a lawyer, there;s so much thats open to interpretation.
I just read the vic link that Chris posted up AGAIN, its just not clear!
Most of it seems to be directed at thje building industry.
Cheers Fred.

On just terms!:law:big grin
Cheers Fred.

geoff
25-06-2012, 10:40 PM
gezz ..on just terms fred ,acquisition of property section 51 of the constitution ???? lol

PaulG
25-06-2012, 10:42 PM
Someone's been watching The Castle!

Check this out,


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-8t-G7mZi0

ian
25-06-2012, 10:47 PM
the way i see it is they will regulate the people who do this for a living and try to do so in a safe way forcing them to increase their prices to be able to comply the home owner will say that's to expensive and either climb the ladder in an unsafe manner with second rate equipment to do the job them self or hire someone who either doesn't know or doesn't care about the rules

PaulG
25-06-2012, 10:54 PM
This might be next for OH&S...

Some interesting reading in some of these older topics.

http://www.indmowing.com.au/forum/showthread.php?127-Mower-Licensing

South East Mowing
25-06-2012, 10:55 PM
Sorry, it would br clearer to ask how do we assess that info in relation to a person climbing a ladder & performing a task?
Cheers Fred.

It will only be "black and white" when you have a fall and worksafe need in investigate:law

South East Mowing
25-06-2012, 11:00 PM
No, not for single storey, but to be able to recieve work from the office for 2 storey buildings or tree work over 4 meters yes. I hav'nt and dont intend to do the course. When i first started i used to run around second storey roof tops doing gutters like i was superman, but im 45 now and have 2 kids, i see things differently now.

I used to do the same (except the running bit) but used basically a roofers safety kit, harness ropes etc. Now my clients know I need to use it on single storey roofs if they don't they get told

But more importantly this has created much interest. How do we build on this?

PaulG
25-06-2012, 11:50 PM
There's been a lot of forum talk about OH&S in the last twelve months John but not a lot has come of it. It's something I really need to act on for myself as I know very little about what to do or where to find the "right" info.

I've been looking at the Workplace Health and Safety Qld website and it is just pages and pages of talk with apparently no real documentation to help small business formulate their own policies. They seem more interested in having people report workplace "incidents" than anything else.

PaulG
26-06-2012, 12:42 AM
I finally found some info so I've taken my first steps to becoming informed. Intro level seminar on safe work processes here on July 12.

http://www.deir.qld.gov.au/workplace/business/smallbusiness/workshops/index.htm

Lawn Mowing Professionals
26-06-2012, 01:14 AM
Definitions of OH & S.... Hopefully, this clears things up a bit :i dunno:

WIKI Definition... Occupational safety and health (OSH) is a cross-disciplinary area concerned with protecting the safety, health and welfare of people engaged in work or employment. The goal of occupational safety and health programs is to foster a safe and healthy work environment. As secondary effects, OSH may also protect co-workers, family members, employers, customers, suppliers, nearby communities, and other members of the public who are impacted by the workplace environment as well as reduce medical care, sick leave and disability benefit costs.

......

Since 1950, the International Labour Organization (ILO) and the World Health Organization (WHO) have shared a common definition of occupational health. It was adopted by the Joint ILO/WHO Committee on Occupational Health at its first session in 1950 and revised at its twelfth session in 1995.

The definition reads:

"Occupational health should aim at: the promotion and maintenance of the highest degree of physical, mental and social well-being of workers in all occupations; the prevention amongst workers of departures from health caused by their working conditions; the protection of workers in their employment from risks resulting from factors adverse to health; the placing and maintenance of the worker in an occupational environment adapted to his physiological and psychological capabilities; and, to summarize, the adaptation of work to man and of each man to his job

The main focus in occupational health is on three different objectives: (i) the maintenance and promotion of workers’ health and working capacity; (ii) the improvement of working environment and work to become conducive to safety and health and (iii) development of work organizations and working cultures in a direction which supports health and safety at work and in doing so also promotes a positive social climate and smooth operation and may enhance productivity of the undertakings. The concept of working culture is intended in this context to mean a reflection of the essential value systems adopted by the undertaking concerned. Such a culture is reflected in practice in the managerial systems, personnel policy, principles for participation, training policies and quality management of the undertaking."[2]

There are three reasons occupational safety and health is a concern:
duty of reasonable care; unacceptability of putting health and safety of people at risk; society’s attitude to moral obligations; making the moral case to senior management
the preventive (enforcement), punitive (through criminal sanctions), and compensatory effects of law
direct and indirect costs associated with incidents and/or unhealthy workplaces and their impact on the organisation (includes insured and un-insured costs)

:read_this

Simmo.

ian
27-06-2012, 08:07 PM
just watching the block and you have to wonder how worksafe haven't jumped on them i mean Dan's just painting the ceiling 1 foot backwards on a ladder the other foot in the cutout for the shaving mirror so only 1 point of contact on the ladder :i dunno:

Chris B
27-06-2012, 08:31 PM
yeh and spray painting without a mask

also was thinking today... if in the unlikely event a mower blade or blade disc came off and caused damage... would insurance / ohs / workcover or whoever investigate whether the bolts were tightened up to the correct torque specifications with a torque wrench?... im guessing most ppl dont use one :)

Lawn Mowing Professionals
27-06-2012, 10:17 PM
yeh and spray painting without a mask

also was thinking today... if in the unlikely event a mower blade or blade disc came off and caused damage... would insurance / ohs / workcover or whoever investigate whether the bolts were tightened up to the correct torque specifications with a torque wrench?... im guessing most ppl dont use one :)

That scenario is probably the only benefit of servicing your equipment through a mower shop... I guess it still has to be proved (somehow) that you have tampered with the blades etc in the mean time...

Wouldn't it be classed as a freak accident :i dunno:

This happened in Sydney yesterday at flemington markets... I will be keeping an eye on workcovers response

'Tragic accident' as father crushed to death at work

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/tragic-accident-as-father-crushed-to-death-at-work-20120626-20zax.html


Simmo.

courty
27-06-2012, 11:31 PM
just watching the block and you have to wonder how worksafe haven't jumped on them i mean Dan's just painting the ceiling 1 foot backwards on a ladder the other foot in the cutout for the shaving mirror so only 1 point of contact on the ladder :i dunno:
Hahahaha
Said the same thing to my misses, how could all those people on site possibly be working under work safe rules.

Chris B
28-06-2012, 07:58 AM
That scenario is probably the only benefit of servicing your equipment through a mower shop... I guess it still has to be proved (somehow) that you have tampered with the blades etc in the mean time...

Wouldn't it be classed as a freak accident :i dunno:

This happened in Sydney yesterday at flemington markets... I will be keeping an eye on workcovers response

'Tragic accident' as father crushed to death at work

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/tragic-accident-as-father-crushed-to-death-at-work-20120626-20zax.html


Simmo.

wow no good .. i thought forklifts have rollover bars like zero turns?


obviously i am talking extreme scenarios... but it does specifically state in the honda manual that the bolts must be tightened to correct torque specs otherwise too loose or tight the blades/carrier can come off. says if you dont have the tools/skills then get mower shop to tighten (even though im pretty sure the mower shops ive been too all use rattle guns:))

Bluey
28-06-2012, 09:41 PM
Well if inspectors are out and about they could start with solar panel installers. Watch a crew opposite a garden I was working in today. On a 2 storey with a pretty steep pitch and no safety gear whatsoever. They carried rails and panels up ladders with one arm hanging onto the item and the other on the the ladder.

BobC
28-06-2012, 10:31 PM
Lots of grey areas here.

If, as has been said, that we must have three points of contact when doing ladder work, if you're using two hands to do your work with, what's your third point of contact?

Would a prehensile willy be acceptable?
:i dunno:

South East Mowing
28-06-2012, 11:14 PM
Lots of grey areas here.

If, as has been said, that we must have three points of contact when doing ladder work, if you're using two hands to do your work with, what's your third point of contact?

Would a prehensile willy be acceptable?
:i dunno:

Just make sure temp is above freezing. Otherwise it could be a bit difficult getting back off it;)

Treecat
28-06-2012, 11:17 PM
BobC you do have two feet, dont you? :)

Scooby Steve
29-06-2012, 09:36 PM
BobC you do have two feet, dont you? :)

Two feet Bob thats one hell of a willy :pop worm !!!

Chris B
11-07-2012, 11:26 PM
check these out guys... looks like a good investment http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FOLDSCAF-MOBILE-SCAFFOLD-ALUMINIUM-NEW-SCAFFOLDING-/150846521227?pt=AU_Building_Materials&hash=item231f273f8b#ht_1139wt_1396

geoff
27-08-2012, 09:18 PM
my mate today got issued with a work safe order to get his act into gear.....electrician working on a roof..no scaffolding....his time of work was 5 mins WTF..next time will be a fine...

Fred's mowing
27-08-2012, 09:22 PM
I am totally convinced this (WILL) be a substantial issue for those that offer these services within the hort industry in the future.
Be carefull, be VERY carefull!!!!!!
Cheers Fred.

geoff
27-08-2012, 09:23 PM
yep and may i say BE VERY AFRAID because they have the power to fine

Fred's mowing
27-08-2012, 09:26 PM
Wow Geoff, I cant believe u reserected this thread 4 mins ago as I was typing in here!:magic
Cheers Fred.

geoff
27-08-2012, 09:28 PM
old minds thats right OLD think somewhat a like old boy

geoff
27-08-2012, 09:28 PM
either that or you are slow typer lol

Fred's mowing
27-08-2012, 09:34 PM
either that or you are slow typer lol

Very slow:sad:
Cheers Fred.

South East Mowing
27-08-2012, 10:15 PM
my mate today got issued with a work safe order to get his act into gear.....electrician working on a roof..no scaffolding....his time of work was 5 mins WTF..next time will be a fine...

The easiest way out is a harness. Got to get a working at heights ticket though. Like it was when I was doing double storey gutters it often took longer setting up/changing over the anchor points than it did to clean the gutters.
Most people just dont understand -UNTIL they are also held responsible for the problems that occur if accidents happen

South East Mowing
28-08-2012, 08:42 PM
Anyone that can provide me with a reasonable swms for a mid mount ztr I will gladly trade swms that I have, all up about to choose from.

AJD Mowing
27-09-2012, 09:07 PM
There hasnt been a good old Indi VS Jimbo stoush for a while.. whats going on :boxer: :i dunno:

Cranbourne Lawnmowing
27-09-2012, 09:29 PM
There hasnt been a good old Indi VS Jimbo stoush for a while.. whats going on :boxer: :i dunno:

Maybe its not worth getting banned over which is how they normally finish.

ian
27-09-2012, 10:17 PM
There hasnt been a good old Indi VS Jimbo stoush for a while.. whats going on :boxer: :i dunno:

take your pick from the things that make me grumpy thread

I'm glad Indy's exist. They do all the crap work for the miserable tight arses that we won't do, leaving us with the cream ;)

or this piece of disgusting heresy from the silly mistakes thread

Mid arvo I was doing tip run at Wodonga Transfer Station to clear the tandem trailer re some garden/tree work I had done as rain/thunder was about. Needed the trailer empty in case the tips got boggie.
But I left 4 witches hats behind and I wasn't being distracted at the tip, just a dementia moment.

Tonight 6.30pm as I've got the rig backed into my house garage and about to unhook with a cold Carlton Draught in hand as it was/is quite warm.
A car pulls up in my hillside drive.
Out jumps a Jims Mowing Superstar who I know well with my 4 witches hats in hand. He had visited the tip by luck moments after me and picked them up and saw my business name on the inside of each hat. (he knew where lived)

What a gem of a bloke, he was the first bloke I approached in nearby streets when I started out when I was sussing out the Jim's Franchise approach and he leadme to their Supervisor.

Then I became an Indy after I took a confidence pill, but we have alway said hello and waved when we saw each other (which is quite often).
Incidently all 15 or so Jims and independent blokes & ladies acknowlege each in our Border Town every day.

I owe John from Jims a beer or two. "Thanks Mate"

i mean really Garry next you'll be trying to tell us that they're human

AJD Mowing
28-09-2012, 06:53 AM
Wouldnt it be funny if classic cut was the superstar who gave the witches hats to gazza :laughing: Dr Jekyill and Mr Hyde