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administrator
09-03-2013, 12:12 PM
Dylan from Honda has offered up his services to help the members with any Honda Power equipment products.


The official account for Honda Power Equipment. This account is updated and maintained by Honda PE's PR & Marketing Officer. This account is not designed as a sales account; more of an authority on Honda products. Please ask questions! We take all user opinions seriously.

"Like" us at www.facebook.com/HondaLawnLovers and "Follow" us at @Honda_HPE
Location:
Campbellfield, Victoria, Australia
Interests:
Lawn & Garden Maintenance, Boating, Sports!
Occupation:
PR & Marketing Officer
Member of ILMCA:
Yes
Honda - The Power of Dreams
powerequipment.honda.com.au

PaulG
09-03-2013, 01:58 PM
How do we contact him directly so we don't just get a smarmy, public-appeasing non-relevant reply? :) I'd like to ask why there's such large variances in the in the pressed shape and tip angles of the 216 blades. Half the ones in the box can't even be used because they are so out of shape.

Redeye
09-03-2013, 01:59 PM
is there a "dislike" button? :laughing::big grin

administrator
09-03-2013, 02:24 PM
How do we contact him directly so we don't just get a smarmy, public-appeasing non-relevant reply? :) I'd like to ask why there's such large variances in the in the pressed shape and tip angles of the 216 blades. Half the ones in the box can't even be used because they are so out of shape.

Paul do u think i would let some one into the best forum in the world to give just get a smarmy, public-appeasing non-relevant reply?

I have had a very good chat to Dylan .

Dylan knows what he is walking into and so does Honda Australia .

Im very impressed as i have asked many other suppliers to come on board over the years and they wont ,well at this stage anyway .


So lets all wait and see the "fair Go" Policy is in place .

PaulG
09-03-2013, 03:26 PM
Hey Dean I meant with regard to corporate Facebook pages as the way I read your post it sounded like we had to go to the Facebook page to talk to him. 99% of the time corporate Facebook pages are just a PR smokescreen. It didn't come across in the message that he would actually be answering questions here on the forum. I'm happy to hear this and will always give people a fair go until they prove to me otherwise :)

bb1
09-03-2013, 03:42 PM
Heres hoping, normally Honda just ignore us contractors.

bb1
09-03-2013, 03:47 PM
My first question for Dylan is what are Honda doing to help us contractors make the new model 196's work in wet conditions, with half the chute blocked it is shocking when there is the slightest bit of moisture, are Honda offering a retrofit to fix it.

PaulG
09-03-2013, 03:53 PM
So first question I'd like to ask Dylan (after saying welcome to ILMCOA) is:

Why is there such a large variance in the pressed shape and tip angles of the 216 blades (older 216D Mulch and Catch with round blade carrier)? Every second blade is pressed at a different angle. This is the same with every box of blades I buy and I have to sort through the box to match the blades into sets of four to ensure the cutting tips are all the same height when installed on the mower. I ultimately end up with a separate box of 'spare' blades which I hope I can match up with other blades the next time I buy a new box from my local dealer.

This may seem a minor thing but when you are mowing on the first or second lowest height, Santa Anna, Wintergreen and Qld Blue couch lawns that look like bowling greens, you can't have variances of up to 8mm at the blade tip and expect to achieve a consistent result week in week out.

ian
09-03-2013, 04:01 PM
How do we contact him directly so we don't just get a smarmy, public-appeasing non-relevant reply? :) I'd like to ask why there's such large variances in the in the pressed shape and tip angles of the 216 blades. Half the ones in the box can't even be used because they are so out of shape.
you buy genuine Honda blades ? why?

PaulG
09-03-2013, 05:17 PM
I can buy the contractors' pack of Honda blades at about the same price as aftermarket ones and there's no extra postage or freight involved. I tried various aftermarket suppliers and they were the same or even more out of shape too so I went back to Honda. The tolerances are only marginally better with the Honda blades sadly.

ian
09-03-2013, 06:44 PM
Have you considered that if they're all out of shape they're meant to be that way and you're just to straight and true for the blades :laughing:

South East Mowing
09-03-2013, 07:09 PM
Paul do u think i would let some one into the best forum in the world to give just get a smarmy, public-appeasing non-relevant reply?

I have had a very good chat to Dylan .

Dylan knows what he is walking into and so does Honda Australia .

Im very impressed as i have asked many other suppliers to come on board over the years and they wont ,well at this stage anyway .


So lets all wait and see the "fair Go" Policy is in place .

If he has come on here for the right reasons he is going to be a very busy man. Let's hope this is actually the start of something going forward! We can only hope but time will tell.
I will continue with my 215's and 195's for now though.

PaulG
10-03-2013, 01:12 AM
Have you considered that if they're all out of shape they're meant to be that way and you're just to straight and true for the blades :laughing:

You're correct. I am very straight.

PaulG
10-03-2013, 01:23 AM
^^ John you're right. By listening to professional contractors it could well provide Honda with immense knowledge to move forward with a better designed mower. Many of us have said it before; fuller chute to minimise blockages esp in the longer damp grass, 190cc commercial motor, shaft drive SP gearbox, blade brake yes - engine brake no, find a way to save weight so they don't sink into wet lawns, height/angle adjustable handle etc. What else, I'm sure there's more? Wondering if it would be possible to have an offset sliding driveshaft with uni-joints like a 4WD tailshaft - that would definitely allow for a wider chute.

fairdinkum
10-03-2013, 05:00 AM
We I have one suggestion for honda. The black covers over the cloth catchers are great in dry dusty conditions. However, now that we are experiencing a "grass wave" in Sydney, it is very restrictive of air flow with the amount of moisture the grass is holding. So the other day I took out my knife and cut some large flaps along the top, sides and back of the black dust cover. This allowed significantly more air flow ensuring that the catcher gets packed full in all but the most extreme of cases. So my suggestion to honda would be that the dust cover is made to be removable. Maybe fixed by either heavy duty press studs or a zipper or something like that. Those of you who complain about the small chute are kind of missing the point to some degree. The smaller chute actually means that the air is forced through at higher pressure that the larger chutes as long as the airflow is not restricted somewhere.

ian
10-03-2013, 10:14 AM
I'm sure Honda will listen to all our concerns and recommendations they have a reputation for consulting and listening to the professional lawnmowing contractors before changing the design of their lawnmowers then going ahead and designing a mower the way they want which appears to ignore everything the contractors say :)

Chris B
10-03-2013, 11:08 AM
We I have one suggestion for honda. The black covers over the cloth catchers are great in dry dusty conditions. However, now that we are experiencing a "grass wave" in Sydney, it is very restrictive of air flow with the amount of moisture the grass is holding. So the other day I took out my knife and cut some large flaps along the top, sides and back of the black dust cover. This allowed significantly more air flow ensuring that the catcher gets packed full in all but the most extreme of cases. So my suggestion to honda would be that the dust cover is made to be removable. Maybe fixed by either heavy duty press studs or a zipper or something like that. Those of you who complain about the small chute are kind of missing the point to some degree. The smaller chute actually means that the air is forced through at higher pressure that the larger chutes as long as the airflow is not restricted somewhere.

this is what I have found as well. the air flow can only be as fast as it is exiting the catcher and its wont take much wet grass to block up all those little holes... they could make the discharge chute a bit more streamlined though... the corner on the left is where the grass can slowly start to build up layer upon layer until it starts to block the whole chute...

either make a convertible catcher or make a 'wet catcher' with more breathable fabric and no dust cover then they can make more money selling them... win win :)

I use an aftermarket catcher for wet and the original for dry

ian
10-03-2013, 04:17 PM
i think it's interesting that they can design and build a lawnmower for Australian conditions that appears to use the same chassis design as the South African one

GardenGuy
10-03-2013, 07:41 PM
It would be nice if Honda would have a contractor supply program to consolidate and grow their position in the commercial user market. Owing to the current price point, they are experiencing market fragmentation almost as significant as some current political parties.

The start of such a program should be special prices for bona fide contractors, perhaps by direct sales only or by a rebate after purchase. How about it, Honda?

The consumer buyers need more assistance and selling effort, and far more service and support effort, than experienced contractors do. We practically look after ourselves! We buy, use, perform timely machine maintenance and only need to go to the shop for spares and consumable or for a warranty issue or maybe specialised repairs in the later years of the machine's life. Per capita, we cost less to service per unit of machinery purchased and it should be recognised. We also consumer more machinery per capita during our business life than a consumer would. Contractors are a very profitable market segment.

Consumers see contractors using machines, even if they don't use contractors. A quote attributed to one of the great men of the automotive industry was "Win on race day, sales on Monday". That positive impression that the professionals use quality machinery is beneficial for Honda and doubtless leads to consumer purchases. Consider how the sales of "Global" brand knives have improved since being seen incessantly on a popular cooking show. Yes, Honda, you receive endorsement and marketing from we contractors.

Honda, please recognise these economic benefits we provide you in reduced cost per sale and enhanced brand visibility. Reward us. We already reward you.

Will I say this on your FB page? No. This kind of commercial discussion really should occur in a shuttered place. Even this place is too public.

Cheers - GardenGuy.

Mick
10-03-2013, 08:15 PM
I just want a 3 speed SP, 21" deep mulch and SD (big SD chute) decked mower.
Something like this, http://powerequipment.honda.com/lawn-mowers/models/hrs216sda but with 3 speed. No engine break, blade break ok. Commercial engine on it with snorkel air intake and larger aluminium wheels with replaceable wide rubber tread. Oh, beef up the handles as well. Option for different types of blades for SD or mulch.
And I want if for no more than $750 max.

Oh, and seeing whats available in other countries, how about a bit more choice here!
Almost forgot, how about stop ripping us off! $1500 for residential grade mower is complete BS!
Look at the prices in the USA. $1250 for a hydro drive mower....http://powerequipment.honda.com/lawn-mowers

Matt1972
11-03-2013, 03:42 PM
It would be a good idea for Dylan to read the threads related to Honda mowers and their issues as well as those threads dedicated to us contractors looking for alternatives. I'm put off by the idea of buying another honda mower after seeing some of the problems fellow lawnies in my area are having. One of their 216M2's is getting a gearbox replaced for the 2nd time as well as 2 gear selector cables breaking. I'm still using the HRU216, but it's made up from parts of 2 mowers. The engine and chassis from a 6 year old mower, handles from the last one I bought, an after market gearbox and after market wheels (rubber ones that last a lot longer than the plastic crap they came with). At the moment I'm leaning towards a rover or the HRX Arfa recently imported, but both of those give me some concerns. Let's see what Dylan has to say to the comments so far and I hope we get honest feedback from him.

SM MOWING
11-03-2013, 04:08 PM
Hi Honda and welcome!

Thought i would simply sum it up
1. Full open rear shute! (ie top mounted gearbox like a rover)
2. Technology that is currently being used in the US and other markets on our equipment!
3. Safety plate for the rear of the the catcher
4. Forget the engine brake....blade brake all the way
5. Contractor prices - Under $1000 for contractors for both new SP mowers and spare parts!!!! 5-600 for a new gearbox =ripoff!

sterlo
11-03-2013, 04:38 PM
I read posts bagging out the honda every day, i dont get it. I use one of their newer models every day. Clean bag, sharp blades (well fluted), up the revs = no problems. I have no beef with the blade brake...mind u i use a push model so cant comment on the sp's. in my humble opinion "if u dont like them, dont buy them. They might be heavy, but the cut anything i ask them to and hasnt ever (touch wood) let me down. Just my 2c worth anyway.

Sterlo

head1956
11-03-2013, 06:40 PM
I like the Rover and I've had 2 of them I've never tried a Honda, would have to be sp because thats what I'm used to and apart from the small delivery shute the only other problem I can find is the price Can buy 2 Rovers for the price of a Honda (with change) so that is what stops me trying a Honda. Would still like to try a Honda to compare though.

imoww
11-03-2013, 08:05 PM
IS it possible to swap the Honda's deck with a Rover deck?

PaulG
11-03-2013, 08:10 PM
No. Way to many differences. Shaft drive vs belt drive for one.

ian
11-03-2013, 09:44 PM
if i had a rover with a dud engine and a spare honda i might try it the engines should just bolt straight onto the deck but not sure how the drive would go the proscapes are belt drive and come with options for B&S,Kawa and Honda

RSM-Gazza
12-03-2013, 09:48 AM
Mr Honda and Dylan welcome to the forum/site.
I'm running 3 honda engined Commercial Victa lawn mowers. Mainly because I was not hearing good reports on the slightly narrower honda chute blocking. But the Victa is poor in the grass catcher mounting method.

Feedback.
Ok a small but annoying concern re the Honda GVX160 on my two Victa 530 Turfmasters.
The Honda exhaust outlet is a straight out forward exhaust almost flush with the exhaust body. It needs a very small, say 10- 15 degree upturned piped deflector, which can be home made.

As when there are dried leaves on the lawn surface in front of mower the exhaust can blow them around and can hinder the mower picking them up. Particularly on a quality lawn low cut lawn.
With the prolonger hot summer condition experienced and trees dropping leaves in heat stress survival mode it can be annoying. Along with during Autumn and early winter with mega leaves on the lawns.

Honda_Official_PR
15-03-2013, 03:40 PM
Hi Paul, sorry it's taken me a few days to get back to you. I will take your issue about the angles of the 216 blades with our engineer, and get back to you with any results as soon as possible.

Thank for your patience,

Dylan

Honda_Official_PR
15-03-2013, 03:46 PM
My first question for Dylan is what are Honda doing to help us contractors make the new model 196's work in wet conditions, with half the chute blocked it is shocking when there is the slightest bit of moisture, are Honda offering a retrofit to fix it.

Hi bb1, thanks for asking! Late last year Honda introduced the Big Bag Kit, which can be fitted onto all 19" models (except Mulch & Catch models). It retails at $80 and can be fitted by your local authorised Honda dealer in only half an hour. It has a larger tang and a 10% larger catching bag, and is designed to make life easier. For more information click here (http://powerequipment.honda.com.au/Latest_News/20121030/Hondas_new_Big_Bag_Kit_%E2%80%93_Making_Tough_Jobs _Easier)

The up-take of the Big Bag Kit has been very impressive over the past few months - of course, most of the country has been pretty dry conditions over the summer so the conditions could've been better! The Big Bag Kit has also been nominated for 2012 Product Of The Year in Power Equipment Australasia magazine, so I would encourage you to drop by your local dealer and give it a try.

Cheers,
Dylan

Honda_Official_PR
15-03-2013, 03:52 PM
If he has come on here for the right reasons he is going to be a very busy man.

South East Mowing, thanks for your concern :cool:

I will do my very best to respond to as many of your concerns as possible. I have been at Honda for only six months and am the Marketing & PR officer, so for some of the more technical questions it might take a while to get back to you. Of course, some might not be answerable, but rest assured that I will take the time to read every comment both negative and (hopefully) positive, and take your collective concerns up with our senior management staff.

I'm sure you can understand that many overarching decisions are made well above my head, but taking contractor suggestions is something that we are very serious about and I will do everything I can to pass your suggestions and concerns on.

Cheers,
Dylan

Honda_Official_PR
15-03-2013, 03:56 PM
We I have one suggestion for honda. The black covers over the cloth catchers are great in dry dusty conditions. However, now that we are experiencing a "grass wave" in Sydney, it is very restrictive of air flow with the amount of moisture the grass is holding. So the other day I took out my knife and cut some large flaps along the top, sides and back of the black dust cover. This allowed significantly more air flow ensuring that the catcher gets packed full in all but the most extreme of cases. So my suggestion to honda would be that the dust cover is made to be removable. Maybe fixed by either heavy duty press studs or a zipper or something like that. Those of you who complain about the small chute are kind of missing the point to some degree. The smaller chute actually means that the air is forced through at higher pressure that the larger chutes as long as the airflow is not restricted somewhere.

Thanks for that Jason - that's a pretty interesting move, glad to hear it's working for you (although I don't know how it'll affect your warranty:p)! I will definitely add this to the (growing!) list of suggestions for our senior staff.

Cheers,
Dylan

Cheers

Honda_Official_PR
15-03-2013, 04:00 PM
It would be nice if Honda would have a contractor supply program to consolidate and grow their position in the commercial user market. Owing to the current price point, they are experiencing market fragmentation almost as significant as some current political parties.

The start of such a program should be special prices for bona fide contractors, perhaps by direct sales only or by a rebate after purchase. How about it, Honda?

Hi GardenGuy, I have forwarded your entire comment to our National Sales Manager. Coming from a marketing & PR background I personally recognise the importance that contractors can play in this market. From a purely economical standpoint you make a lot of sense, and I will do everything I can to try and help make this happen.

Have a great weekend, and watch this space!

Dylan

m287j
15-03-2013, 08:34 PM
Hi Dylan, i wish you luck in your new role and you are a brave man coming into the forum.

I have no dramas with Honda mowers, mine seem to be unbreakable and have lasted 7+ years. Honda brushcutters are another story altogether, i have had nothing but problems with them and Honda have refused to repair/replace them under warranty.
I have found this aspect of Honda's business most unsatisfactory, customer service when it comes to warranty.
Check out my thread titled 'Honda MPE disguisting' and you will see what i am talking about.

South East Mowing
15-03-2013, 09:01 PM
Mr Honda and Dylan welcome to the forum/site.
I'm running 3 honda engined Commercial Victa lawn mowers. Mainly because I was not hearing good reports on the slightly narrower honda chute blocking. But the Victa is poor in the grass catcher mounting method.

Feedback.
Ok a small but annoying concern re the Honda GVX160 on my two Victa 530 Turfmasters.
The Honda exhaust outlet is a straight out forward exhaust almost flush with the exhaust body. It needs a very small, say 10- 15 degree upturned piped deflector, which can be home made.

As when there are dried leaves on the lawn surface in front of mower the exhaust can blow them around and can hinder the mower picking them up. Particularly on a quality lawn low cut lawn.
With the prolonger hot summer condition experienced and trees dropping leaves in heat stress survival mode it can be annoying. Along with during Autumn and early winter with mega leaves on the lawns.

Would you prefer polished chrome or polished stainless Gary?:p

ian
15-03-2013, 09:10 PM
Just a note on the Big Bag Kit i believe if you fit it you can't use the mulching plug so it's catch or rear discharge

RSM-Gazza
15-03-2013, 09:46 PM
Would you prefer polished chrome or polished stainless Gary?:p

Black would do fine as it would then match the exhaust's color at the tip.

Today I was mowing a very fine low cut lawn that is sometimes mowed when it doesn't need it, but the costumers wants it done.
It was covered in yellow heat stressed Silverbirch leaves and yep with the horizontal exhaust outlet was doing its thing until i put the SP in reverse.
Nothing to do with the under carriage blade carrier or rotational angle.

Have Sunday off so I may make a little tiny deflector.
It's as stressful to me as a Paddle Pop melting and dripping onto ones fingers :doh :D

ian
15-03-2013, 09:55 PM
Garry maybe try doing it sideways as if you put an upwards facing deflector this could cause rain/water to be deflected into the exhaust outlet unless you have it attached starting under the outlet with it connected on the sides of the deflector and a gap between the bottom and the exhausts body

RSM-Gazza
16-03-2013, 06:47 AM
Garry maybe try doing it sideways as if you put an upwards facing deflector this could cause rain/water to be deflected into the exhaust outlet unless you have it attached starting under the outlet with it connected on the sides of the deflector and a gap between the bottom and the exhausts body
ian, you are on the money in your engineering design thoughts and must/could be an under cover Honda Consultant.;) Yes the way my gear box sliding pawls wear & clag up sometimes, side ways mowing is very possible and achievable. This could be a assest though when manovering around water meters.

PS I don't work in the rain, but I do ride my motorbike in the rain and it has an up sweeped exhaust. Maybe a little cocktail umbrella is required over the exhaust tip there.:bike:

Scooby Steve
18-03-2013, 05:29 PM
Welcome Dylan, good to have you here.

Two issues immediately spring to mind for us (we have been using Hondas for over 20 years).

One - your reps don't seem to care what contractors have to say. I have mentioned many times over the years about how heavy the mowers have become and the usual response from various reps is....... you must be getting old mate no body else is complaining about it. Nice response, so for me be nice if our opinions were taken on board rather than just brushed off. Same happened when the issues with the brushcutters started (early models).

Two - the weight of your mowers has steadily risen over the years to a point where its now a serious issue not only to the user (fatigue) but also to the lawns where if you are using them on a softish lawn damage is easily achieved. With all the materials available today im sure a weight reduction could be achieved and yes i personally would pay more for a decent weight saving. Cheers from Craig.

Honda_Official_PR
19-03-2013, 12:49 PM
Welcome Dylan, good to have you here.

Two issues immediately spring to mind for us (we have been using Hondas for over 20 years).

One - your reps don't seem to care what contractors have to say. I have mentioned many times over the years about how heavy the mowers have become and the usual response from various reps is....... you must be getting old mate no body else is complaining about it. Nice response, so for me be nice if our opinions were taken on board rather than just brushed off. Same happened when the issues with the brushcutters started (early models).

Two - the weight of your mowers has steadily risen over the years to a point where its now a serious issue not only to the user (fatigue) but also to the lawns where if you are using them on a softish lawn damage is easily achieved. With all the materials available today im sure a weight reduction could be achieved and yes i personally would pay more for a decent weight saving. Cheers from Craig.

Hi Craig, thanks for your feedback. I'm sorry to hear that you feel that Honda's reps in your area have 'brushed you off'. If you have any details on who these reps are, can you please send them to me in a Private Message and I will forward them to our Sales Managers. Obviously this does not reflect well on the Honda name and if we can do something to stop reps giving you these impressions then we will.

As to your comments regarding the weight of the mowers, obviously the words I write on this forum will not immediately see any change in design. However your points - and those of your fellow contractors - are not falling on deaf ears, and you can be assured that all concerns raised here will be forwarded to senior management. Change on this scale, as I'm sure you can appreciate, does not happen overnight (or even over the course of a year), but it all begins with customer feedback such as this.

Thank you again, and I'm glad to see that you're still using Honda products after 20 years!

Cheers,
Dylan

bb1
19-03-2013, 04:22 PM
Hi bb1, thanks for asking! Late last year Honda introduced the Big Bag Kit, which can be fitted onto all 19" models (except Mulch & Catch models). It retails at $80 and can be fitted by your local authorised Honda dealer in only half an hour. It has a larger tang and a 10% larger catching bag, and is designed to make life easier. For more information click here (http://powerequipment.honda.com.au/Latest_News/20121030/Hondas_new_Big_Bag_Kit_%E2%80%93_Making_Tough_Jobs _Easier)

The up-take of the Big Bag Kit has been very impressive over the past few months - of course, most of the country has been pretty dry conditions over the summer so the conditions could've been better! The Big Bag Kit has also been nominated for 2012 Product Of The Year in Power Equipment Australasia magazine, so I would encourage you to drop by your local dealer and give it a try.

Cheers,
Dylan

Dylan, you must have miss read my comment, I was talking about the 196 which is a mulch and catch. Rang a dealer and he actually has never fitted one, because as soon as he mentions that you loose the mulch function, most contractors dont want it. So I am still left with a poorly designed 196 mower. Rememer this was the new and improved one, which in my view was ten steps back from the original 196.

South East Mowing
19-03-2013, 06:20 PM
Hi Craig, thanks for your feedback. I'm sorry to hear that you feel that Honda's reps in your area have 'brushed you off'. If you have any details on who these reps are, can you please send them to me in a Private Message and I will forward them to our Sales Managers. Obviously this does not reflect well on the Honda name and if we can do something to stop reps giving you these impressions then we will.

As to your comments regarding the weight of the mowers, obviously the words I write on this forum will not immediately see any change in design. However your points - and those of your fellow contractors - are not falling on deaf ears, and you can be assured that all concerns raised here will be forwarded to senior management. Change on this scale, as I'm sure you can appreciate, does not happen overnight (or even over the course of a year), but it all begins with customer feedback such as this.

Thank you again, and I'm glad to see that you're still using Honda products after 20 years!

Cheers,
Dylan

Dylan, I am still using Honda products after 19 years - mowers that is. A bunch of 195's and 215's that are good general mowers - even if a little under powered. The newer heavier mowers, with motors made in China I do not know much about, except what I hear from other contractors and don't really want to try them out until MAJOR changes have been made. I have enough mowers to see me through the next 5-10 years at least based upon previous experience with the 195's and 194's. Maybe the self propelled will need a new motor but thats all. It's something I dont think would happen if I had the newer mowers (motors made in China). Because of the range of mowers available and how us Aussies seem to have absolutely no say in the gear they get dumped upon them I would change mowers in a heartbeat if something with the reliablity, weight and performance of the 195 (with a little more HP) was made by any competitor. At the end of the day I just want a good general all round push mower and then a self propelled mower that handles most conditions quite well AND doesn't leave me feeling like I have finished a weights session at the end of that 8hr day. With the Aussie dollar high we are starting to import our own gear in from USA and for some this is the best option, but we would like to see some of the different models available in USA on the shelves in Australia (at a reasonable price)

Cranbourne Lawnmowing
19-03-2013, 07:08 PM
I ordered a new starter assembly on saturday for a hru 196. Got told they could fix it but I don't want to be without the mower at the moment so told them just order the whole thing. What I would like to know is why it would only cost me $45 for an after market assembly compaired to $200 for a honda unit? I cannot understand how a starter assembly can cost that much.

BTW I ordered the after market unit. If I had no choice, I would just get the rover back out.

ian
19-03-2013, 07:50 PM
John i agree i have the 197's as i didn't like the weight of the 196's and that was the old style before they added the extra 10kg when mine brake i will be replacing parts including the engine or buying another brand

Scooby Steve
19-03-2013, 08:15 PM
Thanks Dylan for the reply. Sadly i didn't get either of the reps names. If it happens again i will be sure to get those details. I might send you a private message with the details of the shops and the date (roughly) it happened. Haven't seen a Honda rep in years so they may have moved on or been moved on by now. Cheers.

PaulG
22-03-2013, 12:34 AM
Dylan, just wanted to ask too about the pricing on some accessories. Sometimes genuine parts are actually cheaper at the dealer than buying aftermarket parts online but why the huge difference in the price of air-filters for the GXV160 motor?

$30 vs $8 for essentially an identical item.

administrator
22-03-2013, 10:58 AM
Paul you could say the same about quotes on jobs .Franchises are more expensive than Independents but sometimes they are better .Then you have the cowboys even cheaper lol

If you put a non gen part on a mower that has a warranty and something happens it could be the cause of the non gen part or they could blame the non gen part .

i am only guessing that the domestic market sales out weighs contractor sales by a huge amount .I know (Domestic User )Ray has a Hru 194 and has had it for 23 years and may of only changed his filter 10 times .



Online shopping has become huge in the last 2-3 years imports into this country is massive anybody can import a container of anything if they so desired .
Some chainsaws only cost 20.00 to manufacture in China.

If you sell one filter for 30.00 and you sell one filter for 8.00 four times as much work to make the same money . Bit like us we have 40 hours in a week we can do those hours for 30 bucks and hour ,quickly your 40 hours is taken up .Then you figure ok on all my new customers ill try and get 40 bucks and hour drop off the 30 an hour customers and so on .Or you can work out your market and go straight to 50 all about working out your market and competition .

One thing about Honda Australia they will be able to supply you any part for any mower they have sold .The other company may only have 1-3-5- parts .You want to have that convienience you have to pay for it .Swings and roundabouts

Just my view

PaulG
22-03-2013, 11:49 AM
Franchises dearer than independents and cowboys cheaper again? Not always the case and we all know that. It's possible Honda could try to refuse a warranty claim but from what a lot of guys have said on here over the years they seem to be pretty good at that anyway. Isn't it law that to refuse a warranty claim because of an aftermarket spare part Honda (or any business) has to prove that the problem was as a direct result of using that part?

Was thinking about % of domestic sales to contractor sales. When you take into account the amount of turnover contractors go through I bet the difference is almost nil. I would even say that we spend a lot more on consumables than domestic clients.

The air-filters I mentioned are case in point - after fuel they would be my most frequent consumable. Domestic clients might change their filter once a year if they're lucky. I've bought plenty of genuine Honda items when the price is right but I buy carefully for the things where a good deal of money can be saved too. $30 vs $8 for a filter is ridiculous especially when there is next to no appreciable difference in quality. If someone can show me that the filter construction and micron size of a 'Honda' stamped filter is vastly superior I may reconsider my thoughts but why would anyone pay $30 each for something that has to be changed so often - every day in some cases of very dry, dusty weather. I usually wash the outer pre-filter three times and blow the dust out of the filter each time as well just to make them go a little further.

Are the Honda filters made here (which seems to be a business' justification these days as to why things are so expensive) or are they made in China just like the $8 units that do just as good a job?

PaulG
22-03-2013, 11:49 AM
Double Double...

administrator
22-03-2013, 12:09 PM
Dylan, just wanted to ask too about the pricing on some accessories. Sometimes genuine parts are actually cheaper at the dealer than buying aftermarket parts online but why the huge difference in the price of air-filters for the GXV160 motor?

$30 vs $8 for essentially an identical item.

Thats what i was getting at Paul swings and roundabouts so the way you are purchasing it may work out your spending the same either way overall.Sometimes genuine parts are actually cheaper at the dealer than buying aftermarket parts online you said .

Heres an example on my store you can buy a filter for 18.00 or you can buy three for 33.00 .The person just wanting one filter pays 18.00 better than paying 33.00 for 2 extra filters he is not going to use .

Did you buy one filter 8.00 plus postage online

administrator
22-03-2013, 01:22 PM
off topic sorry
Time is a very important and in my view the most expensive part of your business .

If you have seen the movie In Time with Justin Timberlake www.youtube.com/watch?v=efNzhEKm3w4

The characters have a time code on there arm and when time runs out you drop dead bit more in depth but you get what i mean lol .

If we had a watch like that would we all live our lifes differently and i reckon everything would be heaps more expensive lol .

dont answer as its off topic .

ian
22-03-2013, 07:41 PM
Paul this may interest you
http://finance.ninemsn.com.au/newsbusiness/aap/8630640/apple-blames-others-for-higher-costs
namely
Microsoft Australia managing director Pip Marlow said it was the global software giant's right to charge what it thought the market would bear for its products.

"We don't operate on a single global price because we don't believe every market is the same," she told the committee in Canberra.

I know this is microsoft but i think a lot of 'global'companies think the same whereas the Chinese companies don't care if they can get US$10 from some one in the U.S or US$10 from someone in Australia so they will charge the same before government and transport costs

PaulG
22-03-2013, 07:48 PM
Did you buy one filter 8.00 plus postage online

I usually buy ten at a time with free postage. They actually cost $7.50 each and even cheaper again to buy 20 at a time. I'm not wanting to pick a fight or split hairs but I just can't work out why the Honda filters cost $30 each. Even most car and truck air-filters don't cost anywhere near that.

BLACK BEAR
22-03-2013, 07:49 PM
Paul this may interest you
http://finance.ninemsn.com.au/newsbusiness/aap/8630640/apple-blames-others-for-higher-costs
namely
Microsoft Australia managing director Pip Marlow said it was the global software giant's right to charge what it thought the market would bear for its products.

"We don't operate on a single global price because we don't believe every market is the same," she told the committee in Canberra.

I know this is microsoft but i think a lot of 'global'companies think the same whereas the Chinese companies don't care if they can get US$10 from some one in the U.S or US$10 from someone in Australia so they will charge the same before government and transport costs

Yep bend over Aussies, more big surprises coming your way!:the bird

PaulG
22-03-2013, 07:50 PM
Paul this may interest you
http://finance.ninemsn.com.au/newsbusiness/aap/8630640/apple-blames-others-for-higher-costs
namely
Microsoft Australia managing director Pip Marlow said it was the global software giant's right to charge what it thought the market would bear for its products.

"We don't operate on a single global price because we don't believe every market is the same," she told the committee in Canberra.

I know this is microsoft but i think a lot of 'global'companies think the same whereas the Chinese companies don't care if they can get US$10 from some one in the U.S or US$10 from someone in Australia so they will charge the same before government and transport costs


I heard an excerpt on radio today Ian from the Parliamentary Inquiry into Adobe's software pricing. Their only defence/excuse was that they provide customers a 'total experience' when they visit the AU Adobe website. I nearly had to stop the car and pull over as I was laughing so hard :).

ian
22-03-2013, 08:14 PM
I just can't work out why the Honda filters cost $30 each. Even most car and truck air-filters don't cost anywhere near that.
i would guess it's the same reason the cost of most lawnmowers have either dropped or not increased in the last 10 years except Hondas which have increased
another example is the HRC 216 rrp in the U.S is about $1300 in AU it costs over $3000 they charge us more because we can pay more and most people are like sheep and just keep paying it as far as I'm concerned the main reason to by Honda is simply because of the plethora of cheaper after market parts

Chris B
23-03-2013, 06:09 PM
How often do you guys change air filters? ive never changed one ever lol

Redeye
23-03-2013, 08:07 PM
6-12 months..............:) closer to 12-24 actually lol

63impala
23-03-2013, 08:20 PM
Depends how dusty and dry it is been priity good here lattley....Honda 216 filters me every to months but if heavy dusty one a month....had a person roll over to the state's bought me a box of them back I'm like you real....bye in bulk the way....anyway yeah....:cool:

Last time i bought a filter $30

63impala
24-03-2013, 08:36 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7jAeVS9dkQ

63impala
24-03-2013, 10:10 AM
That honda guy should send me some honda shin pads for that last post....

They like $70 crazy prise....

NLALM
24-03-2013, 10:46 AM
If you oil the pre filter you will get a lot longer out each one just clean the pre filter and re oil as required

Chris B
24-03-2013, 08:40 PM
If you oil the pre filter you will get a lot longer out each one just clean the pre filter and re oil as required

yeah thats all I do too and have never seen the need to change the paper element

Chris B
24-03-2013, 08:40 PM
hope you guys dont change the oil weekly also :)

PaulG
25-03-2013, 01:06 PM
I brush off any big build-up of grass from the pre-filter at the end of each day. I give the pre-filter a wash as needed (but I haven't oiled them). I change the entire unit after about three washes of the pre-filter (and blowing the paper filter out with compressed air as well when I wash the pre-filter). I want to do everything I can to stop any dirt going through to the carby. I'd rather look after the filters than pull apart a carby and all the associated linkages.

Honda_Official_PR
25-03-2013, 03:13 PM
Hi PaulG,

Thanks for bringing that up, and everyone else for their contributions. I will investigate for you and see if I can get an answer for you.

Cheers,
Dylan

ian
25-03-2013, 05:32 PM
I brush off any big build-up of grass from the pre-filter at the end of each day. I give the pre-filter a wash as needed (but I haven't oiled them). I change the entire unit after about three washes of the pre-filter (and blowing the paper filter out with compressed air as well when I wash the pre-filter). I want to do everything I can to stop any dirt going through to the carby. I'd rather look after the filters than pull apart a carby and all the associated linkages.

Paul page 21 of owners manual
2. Foam element (All models except HRU19RPU & HRU19DPU). Wash the element in a solution of household detergent and warm water, then rinse thoroughly, or wash in nonflammable or high flash point solvent. Do not use fuel as a cleaning solvent because this will create a risk of fire or explosion. Allow the element to dry thoroughly. Soak the element in clean engine oil and squeeze out the excess oil. The engine will smoke during initial start-up if too much oil is left in the foam, or the oil could saturate the paper element making the engine inoperable.
3. Wipe dirt from the air cleaner body and cover using a moist rag. Be careful to prevent dirt from entering the air duct that leads to the carburetor.
4. Reinstall the air cleaner element(s), and make sure the element(s) are properly positioned. Install the air cleaner cover and clip in or tighten the screws securely

South East Mowing
25-03-2013, 08:41 PM
hope you guys dont change the oil weekly also :)

Change the oil! Where does it say that? These 195's prefer the stuff thick and black:)

ian
25-03-2013, 09:23 PM
hope you guys dont change the oil weekly also :)
the manual say's every 100 hours of use so every fortnight :)

South East Mowing
25-03-2013, 10:20 PM
the manual say's every 100 hours of use so every fortnight :)

Do you change the oil in your sleep also?:smileydevil

ian
25-03-2013, 10:27 PM
Do you change the oil in your sleep also?:smileydevil
whats that :) if you have time to sleep you need to start advertising :laughing:

Chris B
25-03-2013, 11:05 PM
haha!

the deck wears out before the engine so doesn't seem that important!



I remember reading on here somewhere that a guy never ever changed his oil and never had an issue... when the costs were added up it was interesting to see that he was ahead ... he copped it a fair bit for that though... seemed logical to me :)

excuse me, I need to go grease my mower wheels :p

geoff1969
25-03-2013, 11:21 PM
hope you guys dont change the oil weekly also :)

was going to change the oil in mine once but the shop didn't have any oil that resembled the black gooopy **** I all ready had in it so I didn't bother .....

Chris B
26-03-2013, 10:54 PM
was going to change the oil in mine once but the shop didn't have any oil that resembled the black gooopy **** I all ready had in it so I didn't bother .....

haha "if it aint broke, dont fix it" :)

Chris B
26-03-2013, 11:12 PM
OK I have 2 genuine things to report now...


I believe there is a manufacturing or design flaw in these:

Honda front axles. I've had multiple break where the axle is welded to the triangular bracket that holds the wheel. (its like the factory weld doesn't penetrate the metal properly) think ive had 4 break on me in the last 2 years

Also have had 2 of the new m2 mowers handle bar snap on the left side above the controls - seems that the metal is too weak or thin in that area... also that side seems to have a lot of tension / presure from the control levers / springs etc???


I am disappointed in the wear rate of the rear wheels and the scroll underneath the mower, and the sides of the deck, however when the above two problems occur there is no warning and the mower is rendered useless instantly ( usually damaging the ground when the wheel falls off! and hurting your hand when the sharp broken metal handle bars scrape and jam your finger in between the broken parts!!!!)

I don't know how many of these issues are actually reported as I welded both broken handle bars back together myself and also fixed one or 2 or the broken axles.

GardeningSolutions
27-03-2013, 08:45 AM
I have had these exact problems even back 6 yrs ago, to the point where I weld the front stub axles as soon as I get a new machine. At least the engines keep thumping along. Thinking of trying proscape 3 in 1 mower. Anyone had good result with these?

ian
27-03-2013, 04:47 PM
I'm pretty sure TLLG has the 3 in 1 i have the non side throw with the kawa engine and am happy with it but due to my setup i only use it on larger lawns so has had more of a large homeowner style usage in the 2 years I've had it than a contractors useage the problem is see with the proscapes are that with out the speed up kit(an added expence about $60-$70 i think) they are quite slow and even after adding one it's a good idea to increase the revs

Chris B
27-03-2013, 06:36 PM
I have had these exact problems even back 6 yrs ago, to the point where I weld the front stub axles as soon as I get a new machine. At least the engines keep thumping along. Thinking of trying proscape 3 in 1 mower. Anyone had good result with these?

thats a good idea... would be easier than repairing as you know its nice and straight!

happymowin
28-03-2013, 01:38 AM
this is a totally honest opinion on the honda vs the rovers. i have no axe to grind, i am not taking the p!ss, not meaning to offend. just being totally HONEST, if thats ok?

same axle thing happened to me when the honda was near new, the dealer welded it for me n/c

i have had a honda hru216d for about 3 years, what i WILL say is that hondas seem over engineered (bullet proof if you like) but that makes them heavy and expensive in and of itself.

in that time, i have had a rover pc 560 for about 15 months. since buying it i only use the honda when the rovers getting serviced. it since needed a few repairs in the back end, (lol i said back end) and i chose to buy another rover pc 50 instead of fixing the 560 at this time. (had the 50 for about 3 weeks now, and am loving it)

EVERY mow i had to do with the honda while the rover was in the shop was just plain PAINFUL. i HATE the honda now. just plain hate the thing.

why?

the honda is HEAVY - the pc50 actually feels SO LIGHT after using the honda for a couple weeks, i feel i can just pick it up under one arm and walk away. the 50 is a pleasure to use. the honda - a dog.

the handles on the honda are WAY too low (i am 6'2") and shorter it seems - the rovers are easy to wheelstand and move around. the honda not so.

on the honda, to get a full catcher in slightly wet/long/thick grass, you have to stop 3 times, and use a stick (which you have to carry on the deck) to poke in there and get the clippings out of the chute, then pack the clippings into the bag with your hand. then you get to the ute, empty the catcher, and use the stick again to clear the chute. RARELY do the rovers need clearing in this way, and they ALWAYS pack the catchers full - to the extent that a rover catcher altho 10 litres smaller, weighs just as much as a honda catcher

the honda engine is far underpowered compared to the rover - far far far underpowered. even more so now rovers have the 910 (9.1 ft-pounds of torque vs 8.5 ft-pnds for the 850 series)

the speed they travel along the ground - rovers one gear is like about 3.5 on a honda - and yes you can safely ride the clutch of a rover, the mechanics checked out my 15 month old 560, it was still on its "first position" and had no discernible wear.)

the 50 has a new drive bar that makes it easier to "ride the clutch" to make your ground speed slower. (the big bar in the middle where the old 560 had its bar is the ENGINE STOP - its not a blade brake, not an engine brake, it just "turns off the engine") - the drive control is under your right hand, a little hand sized bar thats comfortable to use, and easy to "ride"

imho the ONE advantage that honda has is the gearbox - but its also the one thing (aPART from engine size) which makes it a dog - that small opening for the clippings to get out of.

i have identified a few practices with the rover that could potentially make it last a lot longer, which i'll post later, but $700 compared to $1600 odd for the honda? no thanks mr honda - you can keep your heavy, overpriced, stick in the chute mower. i'll keep buying rovers.

and IF i couldnt buy a rover, i'd buy a bushranger or mtd 509 x , or yes even a chonda. (btw redeye, bushrangers are being made again in NZ as bushrangers now mtd has stopped licensing them to make them as 509x's, i found a shop that stocks them - pricing anomaly, though, you can still get the 509x for about $650, the bushie was $1250. but they HAVE beefed up the control linkages for your extra $600 lol.)

Honda_Official_PR
28-03-2013, 08:32 AM
Dylan, just wanted to ask too about the pricing on some accessories. Sometimes genuine parts are actually cheaper at the dealer than buying aftermarket parts online but why the huge difference in the price of air-filters for the GXV160 motor?

$30 vs $8 for essentially an identical item.

Hi PaulG,

I have spoken with our Senior Engineer about your question, and have received the following feedback:

Obviously, as you have pointed out the dealer-bought Honda air-filters for the GXV160 are more expensive than other aftermarket parts. Compared though to these copy Air filters, there are many benefits to be had by purchasing the original Honda replacement parts.
i.e.
The micron rating of the paper and foam will be correct to ensure optimum engine running in terms of air/fuel mixture. This minimises the release of harmful CO emissions and other nasties on our environment.
Also the Air filter, being the major component of the engine filtration system is to Honda standard and quality controlled, so will ensure long engine life if correctly maintained.
The bonding, seals and materials used in the filters construction are all top notch and this ensures long life and reliable long term filtration performance.
Finally, and importantly, the original part is guaranteed and has our back-up.

I hope that the above facts make it a little easier in justifying a higher cost basis for the original part.

Regards,
Dylan

Honda_Official_PR
28-03-2013, 08:41 AM
That honda guy should send me some honda shin pads for that last post....

They like $70 crazy prise....

Hi 63impala,

Thanks for posting that video, the Hedgetrimmer attachment actually has an RRP of $429, not sure where you got the $70 from? Compared to the standard Honda hedgecutter it is almost half the price, but if you've got a Honda straight shaft brushcutter (UMK425/UMK435) it'll save you a fair bit of storage space - and engine maintenance. You can see from the video how easy it is to attach.

We also introduced a Pruner attachment last year, which has an RRP of $399. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL82d74MFqY

Alternatively, versions of both these attachments are available on our recently-released VersaTool.

As for the Honda chaps, well, I'm on the lookout for some myself! Much classier than a couple of bits of cardboard taped around my shins!:noel

Cheers,
Dylan

ian
28-03-2013, 05:23 PM
Dylan it appears you may need others to act as interpreters for the imp until you get your mind twisted enough to understand him :) i think he was saying you should send him a set of Honda shin protectors apparently they have a rrp of $70 not the hedge trimmer :)

63impala
28-03-2013, 06:15 PM
Ian the decoder so true....What he said dylan.

I can field test them and write report for honda....

happymowin
28-03-2013, 07:10 PM
i like the cardboard duct taped to the shins, simple, easy, and environmentally recycable.

no doubt we'll be seeing them in the honda catalog:

Honda Environmentally Sustainable Shin Guards RRP $39 (In Consultation With Lawn Mowing Contractors)

:)

imoww
28-03-2013, 08:12 PM
HAs anyone had any experience with the Honda leaf Blowers?

ian
28-03-2013, 09:57 PM
yes they're a 4 stroke heavy and under powered had 2 seized them brought the makita 4 stroke lighter,more powerful and heaps cheaper managed to seize that as well so back to 2 strokes :) never to change again

Lawn Mowing Professionals
28-03-2013, 10:18 PM
I bought a Honda blower in 2009... i had it for around 2 months before i sold that run with all honda equipment (mower, whipper and blower)

Long story short... I have since bought a pope blower, pope whipper and rover mower for my current run... i will probably buy honda gear just before i sell this run ;)

They are expensive, under powered and heavy in my opinion. good if you only want to use ULP for all your equipment but i don't care to use 2 stroke.

Simmo.

imoww
29-03-2013, 01:47 AM
Thanks guys. I was thinking of changing everything to 4 stroke

ian
29-03-2013, 09:33 AM
if you do i would go the makita over the honda i found it lighter,more powerful and a heap cheaper but the problem i found is that in spring, summer when you are working your hardest and it's the hottest this is the time when you really have to be vigilant with keeping an eye on the oil level and changing the oil regularly but it's also the time when all you want to do when you get home is go inside to the air conditioner not stand out side in 35oheat much easier to just make up a 5lt container of 2 stroke and use this to refill blower and brushcutter maybe twice a day no harder than refilling the mower and an extra 5lt container takes up bugger all space

Redeye
29-03-2013, 11:06 AM
what he said +1

glassngrass
29-03-2013, 02:34 PM
I didnt like the range of Honda mowers these last two years - I bought a great Honda 'look alike' from TPE - same look, feel, heck, even same chassis, motor and handles at the 196.
Was recommended to me by a dealer who was abandoning their Honda dealership arrangement. I have appreciated saving a couple hundred bucks, plus same performance and reliability as I had with the 196. Same filters, Same blades, Same replacement parts....... Sweeeeeet

Premier
30-03-2013, 09:41 AM
Dylan, I commend you for taking up the offer to work with us on the forum especially in the knowledge that all the comments were not going to be positive.

I imagine that most forum users here are happy that you are taking up and passing on their suggestions for improvement but what is really required is some real world evidence they have been acted on and put into production.
Now I know that change takes time but many suggestions here are not about new issues but long standing issues that have not been addressed by Honda at all...a reflection of this is the number of former Honda users that now use other brand product.

Honda promotes itself as the "Contractors Mower" but it is clearly shown here that it's not.

I personally run a 3 year old HRU216 and a 3 year old 196 Mulch & Catch other brand copy...both have served me well but I guess the biggest issue I have is the small discharge chute on the 216.

So can I make a suggestion to Honda...dont just take our word for the issues at hand, get your engineers to come out into the world and spend some time one on one with a number of contractors and experience first hand the problems that we encounter, this will surely assist in helping Honda to develop a more contractor friendly unit, then we would be happy to trial any new units you develop and provide honest real world feedback before they go into production.
If you went down this path I'm sure you would gain the respect back from many contractors and perhaps reclaim a lot of market share.


Just a thought....

Cheers :)


Kevin

Rocket
30-03-2013, 06:10 PM
Thinking of trying proscape 3 in 1 mower. Anyone had good result with these?

I doubt it. Mine is on the scrap heap after 18 months of light use. Got sick of broken cables, side flaps, broken gearbox housing, seized idler bearing and pulley and problematic drive from the rear wheels. The grass catcher didn't catch well, it was too slow, difficult to drag up steps backwards (axle not far enough to the rear) and the engine brake was annoying (switch can be repositioned by the way) The motor was ok.

For about the same money ($750) I replaced it with a chonda 216 from a local mower shop who does a lot of ebay selling. I love the chonda, heavy, but sweet controls and a good range of speed from the 3 speed gearbox. I notice that Master hardware are selling what appears to be an identical unit for $1200 branded "TPE". regards Rod.

GQdude
30-07-2013, 12:33 PM
Hi Dylan, you have pages and pages of feedback here. Are you able to advise if there is a new model Honda coming out any time soon? Would be nice to know with spring approaching.

Matt1972
30-07-2013, 01:17 PM
Hi Dylan, you have pages and pages of feedback here. Are you able to advise if there is a new model Honda coming out any time soon? Would be nice to know with spring approaching.

A bit of wishful thinking there GQdude. As much as I commend Dylan for coming on here I don't think Honda will change anytime soon. I definitely won't be buying another Honda mower in this country. Will probably buy the HRX that Arfa imported. Seems to be a much better mower at a cheaper price.

Honda_Official_PR
30-07-2013, 02:44 PM
Hi Dylan, you have pages and pages of feedback here. Are you able to advise if there is a new model Honda coming out any time soon? Would be nice to know with spring approaching.

Hi GQdude, I can tell you that there are no new Honda models coming out in the short term. We will, however, be releasing the Blower and Edger attachments for the VersaTool in the coming months, so if you haven't had the chance to check these items out, drop by your local dealership and (s)he should have them in stock soon.

Our new range of savings will be updated on our website - http://powerequipment.honda.com.au - this Thursday, 1 August, with brochures available in dealerships well in time for spring.

Cheers,
Dylan

SM MOWING
30-07-2013, 02:53 PM
Hi Dylan,

Two Questions.......

1. When you say savings, is that savings on current prices like a promotional special....or like other competitors do ie buy a versa tool and get one attachment half price etc

2. Upon checking out one of the versa tools at my local dealer they told me that when using it I had to keep making the engine level as the engine would starve it self of oil if being kept at an angle for a long period....ie when using the hedge trimmer the angle would be approx. 45degrees etc They told me it would cease the piston and void warranty.

Thanks

Honda_Official_PR
30-07-2013, 03:03 PM
Honda promotes itself as the "Contractors Mower" but it is clearly shown here that it's not.

I personally run a 3 year old HRU216 and a 3 year old 196 Mulch & Catch other brand copy...both have served me well but I guess the biggest issue I have is the small discharge chute on the 216.

So can I make a suggestion to Honda...dont just take our word for the issues at hand, get your engineers to come out into the world and spend some time one on one with a number of contractors and experience first hand the problems that we encounter, this will surely assist in helping Honda to develop a more contractor friendly unit, then we would be happy to trial any new units you develop and provide honest real world feedback before they go into production.
If you went down this path I'm sure you would gain the respect back from many contractors and perhaps reclaim a lot of market share.


Just a thought....

Cheers :)


Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for your feedback. I agree with you 100% when you say that contractors should play a part in the development of new products. You will see throughout the 25-odd year history of Honda Power Equipment in Australia that contractors have actually contributed a lot of ideas and direction for our range. Things like wheel weight and stability, the use of bolts & screws where previously there were clips, and the design of our catcher bags have all stemmed from close cooperation between Honda and contractors like you.

At three stages of the R&D process for our most recent range of mowers - before manufacture, initial feedback during the manufacturing process, and once the finished product had been completed - contractors were canvassed for their opinions and feedback. In Melbourne alone, 15 contractors took part in this process so that Honda could get a realistic, end-user view of the developments that were being made.

Future developments will continue this process, so that contractors will be involved in all product design. Obviously it's in our interest to have the end customer - you - happy with the product that we're selling, so it makes sense to involve you in the decision-making process.

Please be aware that your comments are extremely useful, and feedback such as yours play a valuable role in the development of new products. I don't say that purely as lip service; since I have started monitoring this forum, I have been documenting constructive (and polite) criticism, which is aired at formal meetings within Honda Australia and on a global level.

So don't be shy - but please be polite - about letting Honda know of contractor concerns. Although I might not be able to respond to every comment on this forum, you can rest assured that your feedback is not falling on deaf ears.

Cheers,
Dylan

Honda_Official_PR
30-07-2013, 03:14 PM
Hi Dylan,

Two Questions.......

1. When you say savings, is that savings on current prices like a promotional special....or like other competitors do ie buy a versa tool and get one attachment half price etc

2. Upon checking out one of the versa tools at my local dealer they told me that when using it I had to keep making the engine level as the engine would starve it self of oil if being kept at an angle for a long period....ie when using the hedge trimmer the angle would be approx. 45degrees etc They told me it would cease the piston and void warranty.

Thanks

Hi SM Mowing;

Answer 1: The savings will be off the regular retail price. For example (and just as an example! This is not necessarily a real-life situation!), a mower might cost $1000 now, but will cost $800 for a limited time throughout spring.

Answer 2: I've spoken with our Senior Engineer and also our Service Technician and both of them agree that keeping the Mini-4 Stroke engine in the VersaTool on an angle, even to the point of totally upside-down, shouldn't be a problem for the engine. Apparently there used to be an issue similar to this with an older version of the engine, but you should be fine with the VersaTool. Obviously you should take care when storing the engine and if you were working upside-down consistently then you might want to give the VersaTool (and your back!) a rest after a few hours, but according to both our resident experts it should be fine. Would you mind telling me what dealer told you that? Feel free to send it to me in a private message if you'd prefer.

Cheers,
Dylan

cadase
30-07-2013, 04:29 PM
Hi Kevin,

Thanks for your feedback. I agree with you 100% when you say that contractors should play a part in the development of new products. You will see throughout the 25-odd year history of Honda Power Equipment in Australia that contractors have actually contributed a lot of ideas and direction for our range. Things like wheel weight and stability, the use of bolts & screws where previously there were clips, and the design of our catcher bags have all stemmed from close cooperation between Honda and contractors like you.

At three stages of the R&D process for our most recent range of mowers - before manufacture, initial feedback during the manufacturing process, and once the finished product had been completed - contractors were canvassed for their opinions and feedback. In Melbourne alone, 15 contractors took part in this process so that Honda could get a realistic, end-user view of the developments that were being made.

Future developments will continue this process, so that contractors will be involved in all product design. Obviously it's in our interest to have the end customer - you - happy with the product that we're selling, so it makes sense to involve you in the decision-making process.

Please be aware that your comments are extremely useful, and feedback such as yours play a valuable role in the development of new products. I don't say that purely as lip service; since I have started monitoring this forum, I have been documenting constructive (and polite) criticism, which is aired at formal meetings within Honda Australia and on a global level.

So don't be shy - but please be polite - about letting Honda know of contractor concerns. Although I might not be able to respond to every comment on this forum, you can rest assured that your feedback is not falling on deaf ears.

Cheers,
Dylan
THE CHUTE'S TOO SMALL
Thank You
THE ENGINE IS UNDERPOWERED
Thank You

imoww
30-07-2013, 05:23 PM
Dylan, do you know what modifications Honda are doing for the new Hondas when they come out?

NLALM
30-07-2013, 05:46 PM
Hi Kevin,

Thanks for your feedback. I agree with you 100% when you say that contractors should play a part in the development of new products. You will see throughout the 25-odd year history of Honda Power Equipment in Australia that contractors have actually contributed a lot of ideas and direction for our range. Things like wheel weight and stability, the use of bolts & screws where previously there were clips, and the design of our catcher bags have all stemmed from close cooperation between Honda and contractors like you.

At three stages of the R&D process for our most recent range of mowers - before manufacture, initial feedback during the manufacturing process, and once the finished product had been completed - contractors were canvassed for their opinions and feedback. In Melbourne alone, 15 contractors took part in this process so that Honda could get a realistic, end-user view of the developments that were being made.

Future developments will continue this process, so that contractors will be involved in all product design. Obviously it's in our interest to have the end customer - you - happy with the product that we're selling, so it makes sense to involve you in the decision-making process.

Please be aware that your comments are extremely useful, and feedback such as yours play a valuable role in the development of new products. I don't say that purely as lip service; since I have started monitoring this forum, I have been documenting constructive (and polite) criticism, which is aired at formal meetings within Honda Australia and on a global level.

So don't be shy - but please be polite - about letting Honda know of contractor concerns. Although I might not be able to respond to every comment on this forum, you can rest assured that your feedback is not falling on deaf ears.

Cheers,
Dylan

So we can blame the Melbourne guys for all the faults. Id like to have a talk to some of these guys that were canvassed, they must be backyarders cause no one on here knows any of them. Im not having a go at Honda just saying, I don't think it would take much to make a good mower the best on the market, but you would need some input from real contractors from all over Australia. The conditions in Melbourne are very different from here and we are different from Queensland so I feel national input would be worthwhile

bb1
30-07-2013, 05:57 PM
Hi Kevin,

Thanks for your feedback. I agree with you 100% when you say that contractors should play a part in the development of new products. You will see throughout the 25-odd year history of Honda Power Equipment in Australia that contractors have actually contributed a lot of ideas and direction for our range. Things like wheel weight and stability, the use of bolts & screws where previously there were clips, and the design of our catcher bags have all stemmed from close cooperation between Honda and contractors like you.

At three stages of the R&D process for our most recent range of mowers - before manufacture, initial feedback during the manufacturing process, and once the finished product had been completed - contractors were canvassed for their opinions and feedback. In Melbourne alone, 15 contractors took part in this process so that Honda could get a realistic, end-user view of the developments that were being made.
Cheers,
Dylan

I understand from a senior Honda person (name withheld for obvious reasons), that the half size chute was developed for the US market, and it was forced onto honda Australia, so dont know how you can say that the current mower was developed in conjunction with local contractors from Melbourne,

Honda_Official_PR
31-07-2013, 09:06 AM
Dylan, do you know what modifications Honda are doing for the new Hondas when they come out?

Hi imoww,

Sorry mate, those kind of decisions are made well above my head.

Cheers,
Dylan

BSD
31-07-2013, 09:46 AM
Dylan check your inbox, thanks, BSD.
Hi imoww,

Sorry mate, those kind of decisions are made well above my head.

Cheers,
Dylan

administrator
22-08-2013, 10:26 AM
Hi Dylan just had news come across my desk .

Hru 196 base Etc ,information is Honda sold the rights to THE bases and thats why we are finding TPE MOWERS IN MASTERS .(Would that info be correct Dylan).

and as far as ive always known is that Honda Australia only owns the rights to the wording Honda Lawnmowers thats why the Honda run lawnmowers on ebay cant use the words Honda mower lawn mower etc

http://www.indmowing.com.au/forum/showthread.php?8456-Home-Brand-Honda-Lawnmowers&highlight=honda+mowers+assembled
2nd post first page

imoww
22-08-2013, 07:56 PM
As to the Honda mowers with the non Honda decks... They may be the Chondas... We have had a good inspection on both types of engines. ( Chonda and Genuine Honda) There is certainly a difference. The Genuine Honda engine has bigger and stronger machinery, i.e. the pistons and crank. One of my older 216 genuine Hondas is still going hard. Its around 15 -20 years old. The Chondas are having problems after 2 years,,...

HPM
22-08-2013, 08:06 PM
You get what you pay for.

PaulG
22-08-2013, 11:38 PM
Hi Dylan just had news come across my desk .

Hru 196 base Etc ,information is Honda sold the rights to THE bases and thats why we are finding TPE MOWERS IN MASTERS .

and as far as ive always known is that Honda Australia only owns the rights to the wording Honda Lawnmowers thats why the Honda run lawnmowers on ebay cant use the words Honda mower lawn mower etc

http://www.indmowing.com.au/forum/showthread.php?8456-Home-Brand-Honda-Lawnmowers&highlight=honda+mowers+assembled
2nd post first page

And Masters are still charging over $1200 for the 216 clone (TPE).

Matt1972
23-08-2013, 08:00 AM
And Masters are still charging over $1200 for the 216 clone (TPE).

That's still a better price than the original Hondas. I think I paid around $1300 for my first 216 9 years ago. I'll be importing the HRX from the US in the next few weeks, but may also buy the TPE 216 copy for the finer height adjustment.

NLALM
23-08-2013, 06:53 PM
The problem is if you want genuine you have to have the blade brake, my offside wouldn't handle it, so I have to buy him the Chinese ones which as imow said are not the same, besides the motor the gearbox and drive shafts are also poor quality. I went through about 4 Chinese drive shafts in one mower then put a genuine in and touch wood its still going

cadase
23-08-2013, 07:50 PM
If he has a hard time operating the blade brake, he has no chance of spotting unretracted sprinklers :)

Matt1972
23-08-2013, 08:51 PM
The problem is if you want genuine you have to have the blade brake, my offside wouldn't handle it, so I have to buy him the Chinese ones which as imow said are not the same, besides the motor the gearbox and drive shafts are also poor quality. I went through about 4 Chinese drive shafts in one mower then put a genuine in and touch wood its still going

Can't see what's so hard about operating the Hondas with the blade brake. I've still got the old 216, but when I mow the inlaws lawn I use their new Honda with the blade brake. Feels a bit weird but I could get used to it quickly if I was to buy one (but I won't). You might have to give you're offsider the flick if be can't operate a basic machine and avoid sprinklers.

Chris B
23-08-2013, 10:31 PM
Does anyone actually like the blade breaks on the genuine?
I wouldn't buy another mower unless it had one.. not really for safety reasons but just convenience... emptying catcher... driving mower back to truck etc.. its the best and easy to use.. becomes second nature in no time at all

HPM
23-08-2013, 10:38 PM
I like it. Made a mod so it locks on if I want to. Can't remember what it was like without it.
Except for the time I was pushing it from front to back yard and pushed mower over the door mat...oops...mat was now in the catcher.. Doesn't happen with the blades disengaged..

fairdinkum
24-08-2013, 06:53 AM
Does anyone actually like the blade breaks on the genuine?
I wouldn't buy another mower unless it had one.. not really for safety reasons but just convenience... emptying catcher... driving mower back to truck etc.. its the best and easy to use.. becomes second nature in no time at all
I love the blade brake. On top of all that you said, it saves a hell of a lot of time and money changing blades. Think I've only changed mine 2 or 3 times this year.

imoww
24-08-2013, 07:38 AM
My Chonda's handle bars bent like butter when it was in the trailer. Just bounced around and dinged it'self up against the wall.
Now it slips out of 3rd gear all the time. I bent the bars back (with my hands) But not straight enough yet.
Chondas are good but Chinese crappy material in the metal.....

bb1
24-08-2013, 08:28 AM
Hi Dylan just had news come across my desk .

Hru 196 base Etc ,information is Honda sold the rights to THE bases and thats why we are finding TPE MOWERS IN MASTERS .

and as far as ive always known is that Honda Australia only owns the rights to the wording Honda Lawnmowers thats why the Honda run lawnmowers on ebay cant use the words Honda mower lawn mower etc

http://www.indmowing.com.au/forum/showthread.php?8456-Home-Brand-Honda-Lawnmowers&highlight=honda+mowers+assembled
2nd post first page

Dylan Who ???? last seen when he was trying to advertise a Honda sale.

mowbro
24-08-2013, 02:14 PM
Dylan Who ???? last seen when he was trying to advertise a Honda sale.

:laughing: haha!

PaulG
24-08-2013, 06:18 PM
That's still a better price than the original Hondas. I think I paid around $1300 for my first 216 9 years ago. I'll be importing the HRX from the US in the next few weeks, but may also buy the TPE 216 copy for the finer height adjustment.

Aren't the Masters ones just a copy too? I wouldn't pay $1200+ if I could buy he same thing from DMC on eBay etc for $700.

Matt1972
24-08-2013, 08:38 PM
Somebody posted that the TPE mowers were built to the standard of the old 216. Not sure of the quality of the DMC copies. Not game to be the first to try. Would like to hear from anyone who has bought the DMC copy.

Arfa Brayne
20-09-2013, 07:48 PM
G'day Dylan,
sorry to miss the initial rush of questions, but I'd given up on ever getting any sort of response from Honda Australia almost 10 years ago.
You can imagine it was quite a surprise when I stumbled on this thread tonight in a different section of the mowing forum to where I have spent years passing on the information to contractors I have developed in the field. The same information I have sent to Honda in letters and emails with only an automated response.

Let's hope your interest in our opinions is a sign of possible future change in Honda Australia's arrogant attitude.

Most of the early problems, feedback and innovations can be found in the thread that deals with trying to resolve the design faults of the HRU216.
You will see it has had almost 24,000 views to date, I don't know the significance of Internet data, but to me it seems like a lot of people.
Give it a good read - here's the link http://www.indmowing.com.au/forum/showthread.php?3095-Honda-HRU216-modifications-What-s-yours

Following the consistent failure of Honda Australia to listen to it's Contractor customers for more than a decade (10 years), and the introduction of the latest series of Honda Mowers with all of the old problems repeated, I figured it was time to look elsewhere. I still buy Honda - but from the USA. THis thread has had 7,700 views in the past 9 months - once again, read and learn.
http://www.indmowing.com.au/forum/showthread.php?11450-Honda-HRX217HYA-imported-from-USA-A-better-mower-for-less-than-an-Aussie-HRU

:fact
Honda Australia has done an awful lot of damage to it's reputation with contractors over the past decade. The need for a better power equipment supplier has developed to the point where a competitor could take advantage of Honda's weakened position in the Australian market and make a long term significant impact on it's market share.
Honda has repeated the mistakes of the McCulloch chainsaw brand in the early 80's - Once an industry giant, McCulloch now struggles to sell entry priced domestic products. :flush

I'll be very interested to see if this little exercise in PR patching ends up bearing fruit for the contractor. :spam in a can

PM me if you need to, or if they sack the R&D manager and want me to do the job properly.:help

bb1
20-09-2013, 08:06 PM
Hey Arfa, well said but I think Dylan is only here for Sales, he only visits when there is a sale coming up or only selectively answers the easy questions, where there is a possibility of a sale. Good luck

Arfa Brayne
21-09-2013, 05:24 PM
Hey Arfa, well said but I think Dylan is only here for Sales, he only visits when there is a sale coming up or only selectively answers the easy questions, where there is a possibility of a sale. Good luck

BB1 - your logic is faultless !
It's what we have come to expect from Honda.

Hope you have a good season.

Scooby Steve
21-09-2013, 07:23 PM
G'day Dylan,
sorry to miss the initial rush of questions, but I'd given up on ever getting any sort of response from Honda Australia almost 10 years ago.
You can imagine it was quite a surprise when I stumbled on this thread tonight in a different section of the mowing forum to where I have spent years passing on the information to contractors I have developed in the field. The same information I have sent to Honda in letters and emails with only an automated response.

Let's hope your interest in our opinions is a sign of possible future change in Honda Australia's arrogant attitude.

Most of the early problems, feedback and innovations can be found in the thread that deals with trying to resolve the design faults of the HRU216.
You will see it has had almost 24,000 views to date, I don't know the significance of Internet data, but to me it seems like a lot of people.
Give it a good read - here's the link http://www.indmowing.com.au/forum/showthread.php?3095-Honda-HRU216-modifications-What-s-yours

Following the consistent failure of Honda Australia to listen to it's Contractor customers for more than a decade (10 years), and the introduction of the latest series of Honda Mowers with all of the old problems repeated, I figured it was time to look elsewhere. I still buy Honda - but from the USA. THis thread has had 7,700 views in the past 9 months - once again, read and learn.
http://www.indmowing.com.au/forum/showthread.php?11450-Honda-HRX217HYA-imported-from-USA-A-better-mower-for-less-than-an-Aussie-HRU

:fact
Honda Australia has done an awful lot of damage to it's reputation with contractors over the past decade. The need for a better power equipment supplier has developed to the point where a competitor could take advantage of Honda's weakened position in the Australian market and make a long term significant impact on it's market share.
Honda has repeated the mistakes of the McCulloch chainsaw brand in the early 80's - Once an industry giant, McCulloch now struggles to sell entry priced domestic products. :flush

I'll be very interested to see if this little exercise in PR patching ends up bearing fruit for the contractor. :spam in a can

PM me if you need to, or if they sack the R&D manager and want me to do the job properly.:help

Very well said :clap::clap::clap:, maybe they are starting to listen. And maybe, just maybe one of there competitors is listening so they can have some decent competition to keep them on the straight and narrow. They have had it to themselves for far to long.

bb1
21-09-2013, 07:39 PM
Very well said :clap::clap::clap:, maybe they are starting to listen. And maybe, just maybe one of there competitors is listening so they can have some decent competition to keep them on the straight and narrow. They have had it to themselves for far to long.

Just from what I see around the traps, they dont have it as much as they did, when I started 7 years ago, almost every trailer you saw had a honda, not anymore. When anyone used to ask me what mower to get, I automatically said Honda, not anymore, in fact I say dont buy honda. Why, poor after sales service, poor performance (ie when wet), lack of responsiveness to questions. COST (just over the top for what you get)

m287j
22-09-2013, 09:32 PM
Personally, I like Honda's equipment, mowers mainly, though I agree their prices are too high and their customer service to contractors when it comes to warranty claims is absolutely pathetic.
I once had a huge argument with Honda over a brush cutter warranty repair, even after speaking to senior management there they still refused to repair the unit under warranty. Had a similar problem with Stihl 3 years ago, spoke to senior management about my motor blowing up in my Stihl BR600 backpack blower, no problems, Stihl fitted a new engine as they realised they where at fault. Honda - take note.

duck-01
22-09-2013, 10:20 PM
yeah, Hondas had the Richard in Australia. the time for them to pull up their sox is looong gone.

theyre mostly known as the has been of mowers.

most guys I know are buying rover now.

all it'll take is rover getting a bit more reliable, and Honda will be gooooneski for good.


Honda? yeah theyre expensive, heavy, and mow like cr@p in wet or heavy grass. who'd want one?

holdenhead
23-09-2013, 12:02 AM
Hopefully Honda pull their finger out one day? Not sure where to start asking questions. I havent owned a honda mower for 8? years because the last one I brought fell to pieces. I pretty much replaced every bit with parts from my very old 195 mower. Including the base that got cracks and holes all over it and the engine that lost all grunt after about 18 months. My brother still has that mower which is my 195 that would be more than 20 years old now. Still starts and runs well. They had a product that was awesome and turned it to rubbish. Cant see a Honda being put on my trailer any time in the future. Sorry about the rant but Im still cant see ANY improvments made to honda products in the last 10 years. It disappointing!

cheers Rick

holdenhead
23-09-2013, 12:18 AM
I saw this thread and posted without reading the other posts. Its funny that most have the same issues with a product that used to be the only way to go. When I got my new 196. I thought it would be a better mower than my 10 year old 195. Wrong! after having many issue with the design of evrything, small holes started to appear in the base at about 7-8 months. I went to the dealer and they told me I had been misteating it and I had been hitting too many stones etc. Yes maybe that was true, but it had an easier time than the old faithful 195 ever had. I was using the old mower for the feral jobs so I wouldnt ruin the nice new 196. I called honda and they said the same thing. Got 18 months out of it before the engine was shagged. Thats when I brought my Bushranger and I found what I was missing out on.

Honda_Official_PR
23-09-2013, 09:59 AM
Hey Arfa, well said but I think Dylan is only here for Sales, he only visits when there is a sale coming up or only selectively answers the easy questions, where there is a possibility of a sale. Good luck

Thanks for your feedback Arfa. I've been at Honda for just on a year now, so obviously I'm still learning about the industry, and issues that came up a decade ago. I will, however, go through those threads you mention and pass the concerns and questions up the ladder where I can.

Over the past few months I know for certain[/I] that feedback proposed on this forum has been shown not only to senior engineers and business planners here at Honda Australia, but also to decision-makers at head office in Japan. I know this because I helped develop the presentation on behalf of concerned Australian contractors.

I'm very happy to report that action has been taken on one of the issues that's been brought up on this forum by many contractors. Without jumping the gun with details, the results wil be available at Honda dealerships very soon (at this stage it is looking like before the end of the year). I will be sure to keep you posted on this.

bb1, I'm not sure what you mean I'm only here when there's a sale coming up. I've been active on this forum (across a number of different threads) since near the start of the year and Honda certainly hasn'thad a constant sale since then (would be against ACCC regulations)! I try to monitor this forum as best as possible; you've probably noticed from post date-stamps there is often plenty of time between some posts i.e. before Arfa's post it was 4 weeks since the last person posted.

When you say I'm "only here for sales", I'm sure you'll agree that encouraging contractors to use Honda products is a sales-focused task, not only from the usage of the contractors yourselves, but also the impact that word-of-mouth has in the industry (and for domestic users as well). So I am not trying to hide the fact that sales are a major reason why I'm here (at the end of the day, if no-one's buying Honda products then I'm out of the job!), but it's also to gauge contractor sentiment and, where possible, offer an official opinion about an issue/question.

The fact that Honda has an official presence on this forum hopefully indicates that the company does take contractor concerns seriously. Granted, my personal experience on this forum has been relatively Honda-focused, but I haven't seen an official presence from any competitors listening as intently to contractor conversations (although I am more than happy to be proven wrong!)

Although I might not respond to every question/issue, I take note of all pertinent issues and pass them up the chain where appropriate.

Cheers,
Dylan

administrator
23-09-2013, 10:16 AM
Thankyou Dylan we appreciate your assistance, i did warn you it would be pritty hot for Honda and you have taken it very well ,alot of concerns regarding new Honda Models not all contractors like them including me lol .I am sure Honda is taking the comments very seriously and because of the size of the company i understand it will take time . Competition is fierce .

bb1
23-09-2013, 12:00 PM
Dylan,

Thanks for fianlly answering one of my posts, I will refer you to several posts I made in the "What we want from Honda" thread for which I am still patiently waiting answers on, the posts are soemwhere between 36 and 43.

Thus far the only solution you have provided me for my queries was to try to "Sell" me a big bag kit, which even you own dealers are suspect of, and as I noted in one of my posts (still unanswered), significantly downgrades the mower, as confirmed by your dealers.

Yes it is Honda job to sell mowers, but one of the first speels on one of this posts by Admin and yourself, was that you werent here to push sales (which we all know you are), but also to help us contractors with genuine issues, I am not convinced that is what is happening. Just today again I was out with my new and improved Honda 196, mowing a little bit of wet grass and was blocked at least 10 times, what is honda doing to fix our problems, the only I have seen from you is that it will take years for Honda to change models, well thats not helping us contractors. What are you doding to make service departments more resposnsive to our needs. What are you doing to make the price realistic.

Maybe you didnt answer my queries because I have already stated some where that once my current dud 196 breaks, I am changing brands, thats fine, I am up front with that fact, but I would have thought Honda would be trying to retain every customer, not admit I have lost them, so I will ignore them.

Bert

bb1
23-09-2013, 12:29 PM
Over the past few months I know for certain[/I] that feedback proposed on this forum has been shown not only to senior engineers and business planners here at Honda Australia, but also to decision-makers at head office in Japan. I know this because I helped develop the presentation on behalf of concerned Australian contractors.

I'm very happy to report that action has been taken on one of the issues that's been brought up on this forum by many contractors. Without jumping the gun with details, the results wil be available at Honda dealerships very soon (at this stage it is looking like before the end of the year). I will be sure to keep you posted on this.



Sorry meant to comment on your promise of something exciting by the end of this year. I recall when I went to buy my second 196, I was urged by the dealer to wait for the new and improved 196, which I did because he said it would be even better, what did I wait for, a Hakf chute heavy weight monster that doesnt mow in the wet. The dealers response, just mow the lawn twice. Your response buy a big bag kit, you forgot to mention that it downgrades the mower..

You are not saying if this exciting thing is to fix the 196 or or if it is the same rumour I have heard, which is that Honda is bringing out a new sun hat for us contractors, but it was due to come out a month ago, but you forgot to put the rim on the initial models, and it only fitted child size heads, so you had to send it back for a re think. And I am sure that even if it was to fix the 196, you would be making us pay dearly for it.

Anyway back to looking after the kids for school holidays and trying to run a business with dodgy equipment.

In one of your posts you said the current mowers were put together with a select bunch of contractors from Melbourne. Hands up all you guys in Melbourne or anywhere else who were consulted over the latest great thing from Honda.

Honda_Official_PR
23-09-2013, 01:48 PM
Dylan,

Thanks for fianlly answering one of my posts, I will refer you to several posts I made in the "What we want from Honda" thread for which I am still patiently waiting answers on, the posts are soemwhere between 36 and 43.

Thus far the only solution you have provided me for my queries was to try to "Sell" me a big bag kit, which even you own dealers are suspect of, and as I noted in one of my posts (still unanswered), significantly downgrades the mower, as confirmed by your dealers.

Yes it is Honda job to sell mowers, but one of the first speels on one of this posts by Admin and yourself, was that you werent here to push sales (which we all know you are), but also to help us contractors with genuine issues, I am not convinced that is what is happening. Just today again I was out with my new and improved Honda 196, mowing a little bit of wet grass and was blocked at least 10 times, what is honda doing to fix our problems, the only I have seen from you is that it will take years for Honda to change models, well thats not helping us contractors. What are you doding to make service departments more resposnsive to our needs. What are you doing to make the price realistic.

Maybe you didnt answer my queries because I have already stated some where that once my current dud 196 breaks, I am changing brands, thats fine, I am up front with that fact, but I would have thought Honda would be trying to retain every customer, not admit I have lost them, so I will ignore them.

Bert

Hi Bert,

From the very first comment on this particular forum, the aim of Honda to have a presence and act as a voice from Honda. As I have consistently tried to mention, as a Marketing & PR Officer there is very limited work that I personally can do, rather than pass contractors' comments to Honda's sales and service departments & engineers. Unfortunately Honda cannot create a lawn mower that is perfect for every contractor's requirements at an affordable price (if it was possible to create such a mower, this forum wouldn't even exist!), of that I'm sure you can understand.

Also, have you tried using the Big Bag Kit yet? I would be very interested to hear feedback based on your experience with it.

Cheers,
Dylan

bb1
23-09-2013, 02:46 PM
Hi Bert,

From the very first comment on this particular forum, the aim of Honda to have a presence and act as a voice from Honda. As I have consistently tried to mention, as a Marketing & PR Officer there is very limited work that I personally can do, rather than pass contractors' comments to Honda's sales and service departments & engineers. Unfortunately Honda cannot create a lawn mower that is perfect for every contractor's requirements at an affordable price (if it was possible to create such a mower, this forum wouldn't even exist!), of that I'm sure you can understand.

Also, have you tried using the Big Bag Kit yet? I would be very interested to hear feedback based on your experience with it.

Cheers,
Dylan

Hi Again Dylan,

Not expecting you to create a mower that suits everyone, never will happen, never can, I am realistic about that. But I think that from the general comments on here you must accept that Honda took a mower that was reasonably good and made a mess of it with your half chute and heavyweight deisgn. The real point is that Honda claimed it was the new and improved Honda, yet we are all telling you it isnt, but Honda doesnt listen.

As an example of Honda not listening, i just checked your first post, and you will notice that the very next post is the answer to the question that you just asked me above about the Big Bag kit. Why would I put on a Big Bag kit, which seriously downgrades the mower. So to again answer your question, no I havent tried the Big bag kit as it downgrades the mower as advised by several of your dealers. why would I put it on.

In regards to your comment that this forum only exists because the perfect mower doesnt exist, I think that shows you need to get out of your office and go and speak to real people, if you look at the forum, read what is on here, understand what is said, you will see that only some of it is about mowers, there are a lot of other excellent topics covered, where we give each other REAL answers and assistance.

As a marketing and PR person I would have thought your first aim would be to answer questions from your clients (thats us contractors amongst others), even if it is to say that I dont know, or I dont care or better still the view of Honda is xyz, but to let questions go un answered is, well I better not say as Dean will ban me, he may anyhow for questioning you. But hey thats life, if my clients ask me a question, I answer them, give them advise, and treat them as clients should be treated.

Dont panic, I can tell yoiu are not really interested in answering my questions, so I wont post any more questions for you.

GQdude
01-10-2013, 08:37 AM
I'm very happy to report that action has been taken on one of the issues that's been brought up on this forum by many contractors. Without jumping the gun with details, the results wil be available at Honda dealerships very soon (at this stage it is looking like before the end of the year). I will be sure to keep you posted on this.


Cheers,
Dylan

Are you dropping the price of a 216 to below $1000:wave-hi::laughing::wave-hi::laughing:

Honda_Official_PR
01-10-2013, 09:31 AM
Are you dropping the price of a 216 to below $1000:wave-hi::laughing::wave-hi::laughing:

If that was the case, GQdude, I'd probably need a bigger pigeonhole for all the presents I'd get from contractors!

I'll be sure to let you know once it's been announced.

Cheers,
Dylan

PaulG
01-10-2013, 10:58 AM
Was talking to the local Honda guys about this last week and they knew nothing of it? Surely the dealers and distributors would be in the loop by now wouldn't they?

Arfa Brayne
03-10-2013, 09:34 PM
Thanks for your feedback Arfa. I've been at Honda for just on a year now, so obviously I'm still learning about the industry, and issues that came up a decade ago. I will, however, go through those threads you mention and pass the concerns and questions up the ladder where I can.

Over the past few months I know for certain[/I] that feedback proposed on this forum has been shown not only to senior engineers and business planners here at Honda Australia, but also to decision-makers at head office in Japan. I know this because I helped develop the presentation on behalf of concerned Australian contractors.

I'm very happy to report that action has been taken on one of the issues that's been brought up on this forum by many contractors. Without jumping the gun with details, the results wil be available at Honda dealerships very soon (at this stage it is looking like before the end of the year). I will be sure to keep you posted on this.

Cheers,
Dylan

Thanks for the reply Dylan
Honda still make possibly one of the most reliable mowers available in Australia, but unfortunately they can no longer claim they make the "Best" mowers, as indeed they once were able to confidently boast.
If Rover were to tidy up the reliability of their self drives with a decent drive ratchet design in the wheels, they would remove the only point of advantage Honda has over them. Resentment by contractors towards Honda's attitude and service would be enough motive for a majority to switch to the cheaper, more capable Rover mowers if only their reliability was moderately improved.
You are right to be concerned about sales and your job - they are under threat, - and as we all know , it takes 10x the effort to restore a reputation than it does to destroy it.
I hope it isn't too late for Honda to start listening, otherwise you'll just be pedaling gear for another "McCulloch". Even the Mighty Victa has been reduced to a cheap junk mower due to the neglect of design in favor of a quick buck by executives too clever to listen . History repeats when fools fail to learn from the mistakes of the past.

Do what you can to effect change, I wish you the best of luck.
Time will tell what your real role and mission is here, your actions may be quite honest and well intended, only to be manipulated by your employer. Corporate business is simply layers of misinformation and deciept, wrapped in greed and tretchery.
They leaders haven't got Arfa Brayne amongst them.

South East Mowing
03-10-2013, 09:46 PM
Loaned one of my older but well maintained 195/s to a contractor who has a Honda/Chonda? mower. Told me " it was almost enjoyable" pushing that mower around all day and catches really well!

If that does not tell Honda something they will never learn. . Since the 195's it has mostly been down hill for Honda mowers.

Speak to the contractor concerned if you like as he has been around for a while and has a good business going, just has not used a good Honda mower before!

bb1
12-10-2013, 08:03 PM
Had an interesting chat to a Honda dealer today. Asked him if Honda had fixed the 1/2 chute problem. His words not mine " they wont admit they have a problem, and have no plans to fix it, but it is killing us dealers".

He than tried to sell me the big bag option, but admitted that it was useless, downgraded the mower, and that he had only ever sold one, and the guy got it ripped out.

bb1
12-10-2013, 08:13 PM
a followup for everyone on my comments a couple of weeks back. A thank you for all the emails, supporting my comments, I was a bit worried I was out off line, but by the number of emails, I know I am not the only one with these thoughts. And to answer one of the main questions I got through the emails, NO dylan hasnt tried to contact me to discuss. But I would not expect that, Honda have shut up shop and dont want to admit or listen to having problems.

bb1
12-10-2013, 08:18 PM
80 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mow And Go
12-10-2013, 08:24 PM
that's ok ...due to necessity (nothing more) I went to a BIG franchise that are a massive stockist of all Honda products ...and he happily tried to sell me a Husqvarna ...told me what I already knew, not to waste my time on the new Hondas ...ill keep my Honda powered superswift commercial SP ...same reliable motor on a GOOD chassis

bb1
26-10-2013, 03:29 AM
68 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

imoww
26-10-2013, 04:54 AM
Its the way Honda think. Make more money... What's the word complaint mean??? ignore it....Keep working

imoww
28-10-2013, 05:20 PM
got the 216 back from the mechanic. valves were way out and needed adjustment.
new throttle cable and govenor adjusted.
problem is. it still loses power when cutting long grass.
i increased the revs but doesnt rev out as much as the chonda.
any ideas? or has Honda made their engines like this now?
its a year old

geoff1969
28-10-2013, 06:58 PM
What's the word complaint mean??? ignore it....Keep working

a lot of manufactueres look at it as , well there still selling so dont bother rectifying issues.. stop buying them and then they might start to listen to the people .

Matt1972
29-10-2013, 07:18 AM
Feeling a little excited this morning. Funds have become available to buy another mower. The old 216, made up from 3 different honda mowers, is on it's last legs. Looks like I'll be purchasing the HRX from the USA tonight or tomorrow. A big thanks to Arfa for being the first to purchase one and his extensive review.

imoww
29-10-2013, 05:51 PM
Love to hear how you go with it.
How much do they cost including shipping?

Feeling a little excited this morning. Funds have become available to buy another mower. The old 216, made up from 3 different honda mowers, is on it's last legs. Looks like I'll be purchasing the HRX from the USA tonight or tomorrow. A big thanks to Arfa for being the first to purchase one and his extensive review.

Matt1972
29-10-2013, 09:05 PM
Love to hear how you go with it.
How much do they cost including shipping?

I think Arfa paid around $330 for the shipping on his. Waiting on a quote from speedway sales. Only just finished putting the order through. Love shiny new things.

Matt1972
29-10-2013, 09:07 PM
And the mower costs about $680 us. Depends on the exchange rate. Still cheaper than the aussie 216 and more powerful.

Matt1972
30-10-2013, 10:51 AM
With freight came in at just under $1250. This included 3 sets of blades. Obviously the aussie dollar isn't quite as strong as it was 12 months ago. Still cheaper than the local product. I think I paid about $1300 for my first HRU216 more than 9 years ago.

imoww
30-10-2013, 07:52 PM
So what is he current price for the local HRU216

HPM
30-10-2013, 08:11 PM
So what is he current price for the local HRU216

I paid $1550 last year. Dealer said they were $1650 rrp this year.

PaulG
30-10-2013, 09:21 PM
I'm trying to hold out until the end of the year when this 'new' model Honda is supposed to appear but I don't know if my two old 216s will last. Rover 560 or something else as a stop-gap is looking likely but will have to go out of town to purchase as the Rover dealer here is still building their own Franken-Rovers for $1250 and not stocking the $650 ones.

Arfa Brayne
30-10-2013, 10:03 PM
Feeling a little excited this morning. Funds have become available to buy another mower. The old 216, made up from 3 different honda mowers, is on it's last legs. Looks like I'll be purchasing the HRX from the USA tonight or tomorrow. A big thanks to Arfa for being the first to purchase one and his extensive review.

Glad I could be of some help Matt. I'm sure you'll love the HRX. It has it's little faults too, but the thread I put together shows you how to fix them.

I've been corresponding via Email to Dylan (honda rep on this thread) trying to get an audience with someone at Honda who has the interest and influence to do something about the design faults in the Aussie HRU's. But so far it seems like only the Chief of sales might talk to me if I take the trouble to chase him up and drive to Melbourne for the priviledge of giving him some sales ideas for free. :talk2hand
Dylan might be genuinely trying to help us out, but I'd wager neither he or his biggest boss have any real influence in what honda serves us up and tells us is what it is we should want.:toilet claw
Not expecting any miracles.

For those holding their breath, waiting for Honda Australia to listen to the contractor and deliver what we really want, - you'll go blue in the face first.
I hope you have either massive lungs or good life insurance.

bb1
31-10-2013, 11:04 PM
Hey guys I ran into one of the contractors Honda said they consulted for the new and improved mower, which gave us the famous half chute. Apparently they did test runs in wet and dry conditions, and the artificial grass always looked great after each cut, the length was always a perfect 1/2inch before and after each run. So honda assumed they were on a winner.

Redeye
01-11-2013, 07:25 AM
Boy, how peoples views change lol

PaulG
01-11-2013, 10:58 AM
Is still like my older 216s but really want something a bit better, a bit more versatile with more power and a better mulch mower. I'm having to spend too much every week on maintenance now so it's soon time for them to go. The double blade setup on the USA Honda appeals to me for that reason but its extra size is a little off putting for me.

Guys that have bought it already - what is the outside to outside width at the widest point? If I do import one I want to know that it fits on my mower deck. :)

bb1
05-11-2013, 06:55 AM
Hey guys I ran into one of the contractors Honda said they consulted for the new and improved mower, which gave us the famous half chute. Apparently they did test runs in wet and dry conditions, and the artificial grass always looked great after each cut, the length was always a perfect 1/2inch before and after each run. So honda assumed they were on a winner.

This guy gave me the name of another guy involved, I managed to track him down. He got assigned to do the "long grass test". Apparently for this one the artificial grass was 2 inchs long, his job was to run the mower over it in both wet and dry conditions. Well they ran into a problem with this test, as the Honda wouldnt go up to a 2 inch cut height, so they cut the strip of artificial grass to 18 inchs, and ran the mower on some bits of 4 by 2, so that it would cut to 2 inches. And success, another succesful run, as no blockages at all and at all times the artificial grass stayed a perfect 2 inches tall.

Arfa Brayne
05-11-2013, 05:55 PM
Guys that have bought it already - what is the outside to outside width at the widest point? If I do import one I want to know that it fits on my mower deck. :)

Answered here http://www.indmowing.com.au/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=126496 on the HRX217 thread.

bb1
13-11-2013, 04:25 AM
I notice that Honda have decided to heavily promote the Big Bag Kit, trying to sell it based on a 10% bigger bag so heaps less stops. Well if you do the maths you have to do 9 catcher stops before you actually save any time in emptying the catcher. WOW huge saving of time, not many of us would have jobs where we do 9 catcher empties for a single job. I have about 3 that I can think of, and as most of the year I mulch them, this fantastic Honda improvement will actually make my job harder, because you loose the mulching ability of the mower, so for 70% of the year I have to do an extra heap of catcher stops. Mr Butt brags about his great Research and Development team, but maybe they should be the butt of his joke.

They are even throwing in free installation if you get your mower serviced (you still have to pay the $80 for the kit), thanks Honda a free downgrade is a big bonus.

I wonder if this is Dylans suprise package for us as well as the free hat

sterlo
13-11-2013, 04:59 AM
also 10% heavier, on an already heavy machine if u manage to fill it before chute blocks up eh

Sterlo

bb1
13-11-2013, 06:21 AM
also 10% heavier, on an already heavy machine if u manage to fill it before chute blocks up eh

Sterlo

My understanding is that the chute wont block, because they have gotten rid of the half chute. Although they dont admit it in the advertising, just waffle words "Modified guide scroll for increased grass clearance" Thats PR speak, wonder wo came up with that - Which I understand that if you translate that to english it means "we stuffed up with the half chute, so we got rid of that, but also got rid of the mulch function". So a dodgy mower has turned into an even dodgyer mower because it no longer does what we said it would.

Reckon you'll be having a day off like me today

sterlo
13-11-2013, 06:27 AM
forgot about the chute being opened up with the mod.
I reckon it was 15months ago ranch house tried to put me onto big bagger, once I mentioned weight etc and no more mulching which is the machines strength we both had a good chuckle.

Reckon ill be doing a few odds and ends that never seem to get done due to mowing, ie the little old ladies tree removal, the old fellas hedge trim....all the 10 min jobs that never seem to get done when things are as busy.
catch up on a few quotes also, also expecting delivery of a new toy. Never stops really does it?

Sterlo

bb1
13-11-2013, 03:21 PM
Intersting when you have a day off and go visit a new mower shop, get the guys talking and interesting stuff comes out.

Apparently when they unveiled the new and improved model (ie. Half chute disaster), all the dealers ran out and bought up the stock of the old model, becuase they knew they were a disaster even before they hit the streets.

Based on info provided apparently they have a licensing agreement with the current deck builder and they are stuck with the half chute until it runs out (not soon).

All dealers are complaining to head office, but they have told them they dont really care about the contractor market, consumers are the way to go. But he even agreed with me, that the consumer see's what the contractor uses and follows suit, his sales have dropped off significantly and is waiting for his contract with them to finish to get out fast.

He has even sold a heap of TPE's with Honda engine, the ones that are similiar to the old 196, and reports from his contractors are positive.

If it rains tomorrow may have to go sus out another new shop. it must be a concern when their own dealers are happy to openly discuss these issues with the clients.

SM MOWING
13-11-2013, 06:57 PM
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If it is broke, it isn't worth fixing. So be a man.......

GQdude
09-12-2013, 07:12 AM
.
I'm very happy to report that action has been taken on one of the issues that's been brought up on this forum by many contractors. Without jumping the gun with details, the results wil be available at Honda dealerships very soon (at this stage it is looking like before the end of the year). I will be sure to keep you posted on this.
Cheers,
Dylan

So what's the big announcement Dylan?

Arfa Brayne
09-12-2013, 08:27 AM
I think they've made their announcement already GQ - a half-arse catcher mod for 19" cut mowers that kinda fixes the apron and adds 6 litres to the catcher. (wow - not)

Honda call it....................drumroll and fanfare please............................................ ... "The big bag Kit"

A lot of contractors chuckle at the stupidity and call it -- Honda's big "bagging out" kit. ............ "Bag out" a Honda today !!!

:clap::dance:laughing::dance:madnoel:laughing::lau ghing::laughing::clap::dance:madnoel:flush:laughin g::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

bb1
09-12-2013, 09:23 AM
No it wasnt the Big Bag kit, it was there new sun protection cap, but they left of the brim, and had to send it back to the designers, now due out mid 2015

Arfa Brayne
10-12-2013, 06:10 PM
No it wasnt the Big Bag kit, it was there new sun protection cap, but they left of the brim, and had to send it back to the designers, now due out mid 2015

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing: :laughing::laughing:

administrator
18-12-2013, 11:50 AM
Hi Dylan Merry Christmas to you and Your family and thanks for taking on the challenge .

PaulG
18-12-2013, 02:37 PM
Seems like Dylan has taken long service leave! :)

bb1
18-12-2013, 04:39 PM
Seems like Dylan has taken long service leave! :)

Not sighted since 28th of October Paul, wish i could have long service leave like that. Honda care, still waiting for their announcement that was going to get us all back on the band wagon. Honda care.

simo
19-12-2013, 07:39 AM
Walked into a honda dealer 2weeks ago to get the a drive lever for my honda , the dealer said he would order one and call when it was in, went back one week later after no call to see if it would be in soon the response was what oh sorry we haven't ordered it yet we'll order it now sir ..No thanks I'll get second hand one which I did out of the back shed but had to modify it because it was from an older model..
Was in the market for a new mower on the week end thank you Masters for my rover I won't look back ( at least rover parts are available at almost every mower dealer ) :)

bb1
19-12-2013, 02:44 PM
Walked into a honda dealer 2weeks ago to get the a drive lever for my honda , the dealer said he would order one and call when it was in, went back one week later after no call to see if it would be in soon the response was what oh sorry we haven't ordered it yet we'll order it now sir ..No thanks I'll get second hand one which I did out of the back shed but had to modify it because it was from an older model..
Was in the market for a new mower on the week end thank you Masters for my rover I won't look back ( at least rover parts are available at almost every mower dealer ) :)

honda care !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Redeye
19-12-2013, 02:53 PM
honda, care less

NLALM
19-12-2013, 04:57 PM
You cant blame Honda though for the dealer being hopeless.. I have a big Honda dealer 5 minutes from my hut, but if I need anything for a mower I drive 30 minutes to another dealer who looks after me the big dealer couldn't care less so fark em no doubt this happens with other brands too

administrator
20-12-2013, 11:29 AM
You cant blame Honda though for the dealer being hopeless.. I have a big Honda dealer 5 minutes from my hut, but if I need anything for a mower I drive 30 minutes to another dealer who looks after me the big dealer couldn't care less so fark em no doubt this happens with other brands too

Couldnt agree more .

NLALM
20-12-2013, 06:30 PM
Yeah Im a bit over the Honda bashing, have look around 9 out of 10 guys use Honda mowers, Im not saying they are the best mowers but they are by no means the worst. Sometimes its not the mower but lack of experience, from the operator. Anyone can run a Honda into long grass and block it up, but a good operator knows the limitations of his machines

SM MOWING
20-12-2013, 07:57 PM
Honda are designed for a specific market , they are pricy for a reason, look at there advertising and you can see tthey are a premium mower for someone who takes pride in their lawn and can afford 1k for a mower with premium features , someone who cuts their lawn weekly or two weekly, not for someone who is 4-8 weekly with over grownn kikuyu grass.

SM MOWING
20-12-2013, 08:39 PM
Rover is maarketed in a diferent way and is priced accoooordingly, its just a shame Honda market the 216 as a contractor mower yet it can't handle the variaty of types of. Lawns like the rover can

Cranbourne Lawnmowing
20-12-2013, 09:07 PM
Seems to me that everyone has problems with any S/P mower. I haven't had any problems or costs with mowers for a long time. Ever since I went back to pushing a mower. I've gone to Masport now and couldn't be happier. Still have an old 196 which I really like too, but cant see myself buying another S/P. My gut muscules have never looked better, infact just bought 2 new pairs of jeans yesterday... size 32.:fact

South East Mowing
20-12-2013, 09:10 PM
Yeah Im a bit over the Honda bashing, have look around 9 out of 10 guys use Honda mowers, Im not saying they are the best mowers but they are by no means the worst. Sometimes its not the mower but lack of experience, from the operator. Anyone can run a Honda into long grass and block it up, but a good operator knows the limitations of his machines

Now that's the most sensible thing I have heard on here for ages:) It does not matter what you run there is a limit to what it can do.

DavidS
21-12-2013, 04:46 AM
That's right a good operator knows the limit of their machine, but if the machine has such a limit as the 216 Honda then yes it should be discarded for something better, not saying that a Rover can't be stopped or blocked up as I have done that with my Rover a few times but it usually handles what I point it at. For those who push a mower then Honda is probably the best but because my back is crook I need a SP and I have found the Rover far better than the Honda. Horses for courses. Yes we bash Honda but if we don't who else are we going to have to pick on. Honda build a lot of good equipment and I have had some of their equipment over the years and if I was going to stay in this business I would probably buy more.

NLALM
21-12-2013, 03:31 PM
Im not very good at typing if I was I would sit and write a few pages that would help everyone understand what the problem is with cutting wet grass. But a little of the science of it to think about. cut one dry leaf blade and weigh it ,yes hard to do, it wouldn't be much, then cut one wet leaf and do the same , the weight would be many times more then the dry leaf. Its not just the surface water but the amont of water the plant cells have absorbd, can you see what Im getting at. The mower has to work much harder to throw the grass into the catcher.
When I was greenkeeping we used 30 inch 3 phase scott bonnar queen mowers. I would backlap the cylinder every morning they were kept in top shape, would cut cigarette paper no problem, but when the grass was wet you would have to stop every few runs and scrap the grass back from the lip of the catcher. I don't know about the limits of the 216 mine has done 60 odd lawns this week 2 sets of blades and clean out the air filter a few times so I wouldn't say high maintenance

duck-01
21-12-2013, 07:51 PM
Yeah Im a bit over the Honda bashing, have look around 9 out of 10 guys use Honda mowers, Im not saying they are the best mowers but they are by no means the worst. Sometimes its not the mower but lack of experience, from the operator. Anyone can run a Honda into long grass and block it up, but a good operator knows the limitations of his machines

yah I agree in a way

but the prob is we cant choose the condition of the grass we mow - its not like its our own lawn and we can do her weekly or 2 weekly "when dry perfect conditions"

we have to mow what is there when we turn up. and if its heavy dew or rained the night/day before, or a bit long the Honda makes hard work of her

and if its longer than a "normal cut, what do ya do, say sorry missus my Honda cant cut that get another guy in with a rover? what I used ta have ta do is cut third or half width strips, and or cut at full height of the mower then the proper height - so it meant I was cutting the lawn 2, 3 or 4 times - with the rover its ONE cut and im goneski

rover not so much of a problem in those conditions, the extra power helps as does the bigger discharge port

still love the way she packs the catcher full, in almost any conditions


just cos "a lot of contractors" still use Honda doesn't make her the best mower.


try a rover if ya havent already its the best 700 bucks youll ever spend.


and merry xmas to ya all

Redeye
21-12-2013, 08:38 PM
nothing personal to all the honda fans, but I'm nonplussed at people defending them despite the endless pages here stating their problems :i dunno:

merry christmas :laughing:

South East Mowing
22-12-2013, 08:38 AM
Im not very good at typing if I was I would sit and write a few pages that would help everyone understand what the problem is with cutting wet grass. But a little of the science of it to think about. cut one dry leaf blade and weigh it ,yes hard to do, it wouldn't be much, then cut one wet leaf and do the same , the weight would be many times more then the dry leaf. Its not just the surface water but the amont of water the plant cells have absorbd, can you see what Im getting at. The mower has to work much harder to throw the grass into the catcher.
When I was greenkeeping we used 30 inch 3 phase scott bonnar queen mowers. I would backlap the cylinder every morning they were kept in top shape, would cut cigarette paper no problem, but when the grass was wet you would have to stop every few runs and scrap the grass back from the lip of the catcher. I don't know about the limits of the 216 mine has done 60 odd lawns this week 2 sets of blades and clean out the air filter a few times so I wouldn't say high maintenance

hi mate, you may be able to help with this one...

I have 2 clients with couch grass that have been let go but now am getting them back to good lawns even though they don't water them anywhere enough. They both have some shady areas which have very sparse lawn. what is good to oversow with? also for winter months!

NLALM
22-12-2013, 09:43 AM
nothing personal to all the honda fans, but I'm nonplussed at people defending them despite the endless pages here stating their problems :i dunno:

merry christmas :laughing:

Don't get me wrong I am not defending them and don't care what anyone runs , The main issue guys have is the chute blocking up, common sense should tell anyone that a mower with a full chute will collect better than one with a half chute. When Im out mowing I might collect one lawn than mulch one, and so on ,some I mulch with the catcher on so the client thinks Im picking it up , the Honda in this case is right for me, I also have run victa 550s the only reason I don't now is if I am mulching a big lawn I hit it with the walker.AS I say I only run their mowers and would be the first to bag their other gear

Arfa Brayne
24-12-2013, 05:29 PM
Yeah Im a bit over the Honda bashing, have look around 9 out of 10 guys use Honda mowers, Im not saying they are the best mowers but they are by no means the worst. Sometimes its not the mower but lack of experience, from the operator. Anyone can run a Honda into long grass and block it up, but a good operator knows the limitations of his machines

Yes I "bash" Honda. Not because they are bad equipment, but because they are pretty much the best equipment available until being ruined by silly design faults
It shouldn't be possible for your average backyard bloke to take a welder, grinder, and some basic hand tools - and be able to significantly improve the abilities of a mower designed by a multi billion dollar corporation with more R&D funds than I will earn in 10x lifetimes.

It's the frustration of dealing with blatantly stupid, design faults.

It's the gouging of excess profits from contractors

It's having to pay a kings ransom for a mower, and then fix it to run properly before you even mow a blade of grass.

It's the arrogance of a company who treat the customer like an idiot.

And it's annoying because it doesn't have to be that way.

BSD
24-12-2013, 07:16 PM
I use a JS 48 (john deer)..does fine for me, a 909 18'" from Masters, its ok considering the price, A Parklander set of stuff, cheap but gets me thru, and a Troy built bent shaft 4 stroke whipper,plus a Homelite blower from Buntings, all cheap and seem to run fine, however I'm not doing 10 lawns a week. Had a honda in the very early 80's with 4 adjustable wheels and used it domestic until 2000, fully neglected the thing and it ran fine until it just gave up, so I put it out for the rubbish collection, went within 2 hrs, I seem to assume anything Honda these days aint the real deal, so I buy cheap....Am I alone here?
Yes I "bash" Honda. Not because they are bad equipment, but because they are pretty much the best equipment available until being ruined by silly design faults
It shouldn't be possible for your average backyard bloke to take a welder, grinder, and some basic hand tools - and be able to significantly improve the abilities of a mower designed by a multi billion dollar corporation with more R&D funds than I will earn in 10x lifetimes.

It's the frustration of dealing with blatantly stupid, design faults.

It's the gouging of excess profits from contractors

It's having to pay a kings ransom for a mower, and then fix it to run properly before you even mow a blade of grass.

It's the arrogance of a company who treat the customer like an idiot.

And it's annoying because it doesn't have to be that way.

imoww
24-12-2013, 07:26 PM
IS it possible to create a Honda / Rover combo????

bb1
24-12-2013, 09:00 PM
Guilty as charged.

But personally I think Honda are bashing themselves, strange statement i know but my reasoning.

* we had a perfectly good 196, which they redesigned and marketed as the new and improved model, it was heavier, and just doesnt perform in the wet.

* Honda's solutions:-
* Double mow the lawns - wow great for us contractors, earn half the money
* Put on a big Bag kit, downgrades the mower, costs us money to fix therir stuff up.
* wait till later in the day when the grass dries, wow thats handy for scheduling.

* We ask questions from the nominated representative, and get no answers unless it is to sell us more product
* Try to justify issues with a whippy by saying that it is consumer grade, yet their own website indicates it is a commercial product.
* Honda's rep only appears when there is some sales potential.
* The rep promises us this big anouncement which will bring us contractors back in, still waiting, only one trading day left for the year, and some dealers are shut till next year. Hope you are all ready to rush to Honda dealers on Friday.

Are we bashing them or are they showing there arogance and bashing themselves

Dazz1
26-12-2013, 02:33 PM
a Homelite blower from Buntings, all cheap and seem to run fine,
I've got 2 and they are the small ones! the mighty lite
One is 6 years old and still going ok the other I got 2 weeks ago for my assistant. $88:dance, I spent a month looking at blowers and couldn't believe price and hype of some makes for what is just a plastic impeller at the end of a plastic tube for blowing something that weighs stuff all :i dunno:

bb1
28-12-2013, 07:09 AM
I'm very happy to report that action has been taken on one of the issues that's been brought up on this forum by many contractors. Without jumping the gun with details, the results wil be available at Honda dealerships very soon (at this stage it is looking like before the end of the year). I will be sure to keep you posted on this.
Cheers,
Dylan

Dont think that us contractors need to say anymore, the silence from Dylan shows us how much Honda care about us

jd
14-01-2014, 10:57 AM
Where's Dylan, you ask??... the answer my friends, is blowin' in the wind, the answer is... blowin' in the wind.

PaulG
14-01-2014, 04:36 PM
Looks like the Facebook page has disappeared too.

BSD
14-01-2014, 07:07 PM
Must have got the sack.
Looks like the Facebook page has disappeared too.

Phil 100
14-01-2014, 08:23 PM
IS it possible to create a Honda / Rover combo????

Honda/Rover at the price of a Rover 560,

GQdude
15-01-2014, 06:28 AM
Looks like the Facebook page has disappeared too.

Here is Dylans facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/#!/Dylan.HondaMPE?fref=ts

and I reckon this is his BIG announcement: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5YH6El2wYY&feature=c4-overview&list=UULzhDTVnMwXQORCFmcctfmw

PaulG
15-01-2014, 09:11 AM
Ah, I used the link for the Honda Lawn Lovers page from his first post.

PaulG
15-01-2014, 09:14 AM
Wow. So Honda comes on here appealing to us then goes and uses a Jim for their publicity campaign. Fark me.

BSD
15-01-2014, 09:42 AM
In 1980 i purchased a honda sp. It had 4 independent wheel settings, is this the good old honda-hondas everyone is wanting. $850. I treated it like dirt, i changed the oil 2 times i think, i had a 1/4 acre block that was taking ages to mow, this mower reduced the time and effort by 80%.(had a bar blade)
Until i joined this site i was convinced Honda was the best thing going, then i found out the 'chonda' thing, honda's on chinese bases or whatever it is, so to be sure i just keep away from anything honda. I think Fred Flinstone had the best mower from memory.

SM MOWING
15-01-2014, 10:54 AM
How much is that guy getting paid to read what Honda wrote for him?????

So Basically....

They made the bag 10% bigger...a whole 3 minute video about a slightly larger bag.

There maths is WRONG!

My Rover Procut is now two years old and still going strong! Cost $700

So Honda (full of marketing fluff) $1650 last 3 years

Rover $700 for 2-3 years and it cuts wet grass.

Honda save 45min in summer then winter hits and your wasting 2 hours a week unclogging a blocked Honda chute.

Sorry but a band aid wont fix a broke leg!

Mow And Go
15-01-2014, 10:55 AM
and I reckon this is his BIG announcement: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5YH6El2wYY&feature=c4-overview&list=UULzhDTVnMwXQORCFmcctfmw

time they heard the truth ...here come the comments :)

PaulG
15-01-2014, 11:03 AM
Personally and professionally I don't give two hoots about the bigger bag. If Honda want to stop haemorrhaging sales to Rover and Chondas there's two or three things they need to do. Bigger, better flowing chute, bigger motor and more competitive price.

They are a good mower but they could be so much better.

Mow And Go
15-01-2014, 11:25 AM
they may be a good mower, but they are NOT worth the money in their current form. I have resorted to a Superswift S/P commercial for $1000 ..using the same old GXV160 motor (green and gold approved) and single speed SP ...but the chassis makes up the difference in my opinion. I am between 6'4-6'5 and its a comfortable pace for me. ymmv

Mow And Go
15-01-2014, 11:28 AM
oh, and they are Australian made too ...thanks Jims franchisee :P lol

PaulG
15-01-2014, 11:51 AM
Seems the original page has become this one:

https://www.facebook.com/HondaPowerEquipmentAU

bb1
15-01-2014, 12:21 PM
Well if that is the announcement than we have waited a long time for not much. And still waiting to be announced on here.

Great 10% bigger bag, but you actually have to do 9 catchers full before you save anytime, looking at the lawn the jims friendly was doing he only had a couple of bags, so no benefit there. You have to do some big lawns to get any real benefit. So his figures are dodgy

From my understanding from talking to a Honda dealer, the Long range is really just the current mower with a big Bag kit attached, so they havent really announced anything new, just taken out the step of having to seperately install the big bag kit.

And the biggie for me and I am sure others, you loose the mulching capability. so it is no longer a mulch and catch, but a catch only, so if you want to mulch take 2 mowers with you.

Loved how slow he was mowing those lawns, 75 a week he reckons at that pace it would be 20 a week.

Honda claim to have taken contractor feedback, well I think we had already told them the big bag kit was a wan?nk, so did they really listen to us.

And yes their maths on the cost savings on mowers and the savings on stops was wrong, but we wont hold that against them.

bb1
15-01-2014, 12:24 PM
Just found the announcement Dylan was really refferring to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AKRHod8Sgs

BSD
15-01-2014, 01:12 PM
Dirtbike express???
Just found the announcement Dylan was really refferring to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AKRHod8Sgs

bb1
15-01-2014, 01:22 PM
Dirtbike express???

no, the cap ,,,,,,,,,

BSD
15-01-2014, 01:29 PM
lol....:newbie
no, the cap ,,,,,,,,,

Arfa Brayne
18-01-2014, 10:22 PM
As annoyed as I am with Honda Australia, It may not be fair to blame Dylan for Honda's sins.
It's a bit like abusing the teller at the bank because the Managing director took a $15 million bonus and increased your mortgage interest rates. The teller is just the poor bugger stuck in the middle, trying to do his job, earn some cash and feed the family.
I'm not saying that is the case with Dylan, but if he was just a poor bloke trying to make a difference and earn a quid, then it would be low to unload on him while his bosses use him as a human shield.
Everyone deserves a fair go - and I would like to hear Dylan's side of the story if he has been given the sack.
I know what corporate is like - that's why I quit it almost 20 years ago, I didn't want to become "one of them".

PaulG
19-01-2014, 12:29 AM
He's still there Arfa. Pretty sure it was Dylan who replied to me on the Honda facebook page a couple of days ago. I think Honda has been spending their time producing that Youtube clip with the Jim who did the big reveal for them. As if Jim needs a hand. Would have been great to see an Indy doing that for ILMCOA instead.

bb1
19-01-2014, 08:02 AM
Hey Arfaa, dont think anyone is really having a go at Dylan directly, more at Honda, but as the public face of Honda, he is the one that we don't see, and don't hear from. Sure it is his bosses that tell him what to say. In fact from my source at Honda, I am told that every post he was doing, had to be run past senior management before he hit the post reply button. My understanding is that Dylan is a great guy, just caught up in Honda's failures.

Arfa Brayne
19-01-2014, 03:34 PM
I guess we'll just have to wait for a reply on this thread from either Dylan or Honda.
Unfortunately the silence seems to speak for itself.

Tomo
20-01-2014, 09:30 PM
Personally and professionally I don't give two hoots about the bigger bag. If Honda want to stop haemorrhaging sales to Rover and Chondas there's two or three things they need to do. Bigger, better flowing chute, bigger motor and more competitive price.

They are a good mower but they could be so much better.

After watching the new Honda promo it makes you wonder, here we have a Jims mowing contractor mowing around 75 lawns a week with seemingly no issues with Honda mowers.....has the 10% bigger bag made a difference with airflow and the clogging of wet grass in the chute? has anyone tested it yet?

imoww
21-01-2014, 06:05 AM
Honda and Jim's must be in bed together

PaulG
21-01-2014, 04:42 PM
Honda can provide me with one to test for them if they like. I mow just about every type and length of lawn here :-)

Don't know where or for how long they tested them as I haven't seen anyone here with one or any in the store for that matter.

Tomo
21-01-2014, 07:51 PM
Yes would be a good way to prove the point give 2 or 3 mowers to independent contractors to test them them out in various conditions,if their as good as they reckon they should have nothing to fear.:rolleyes:

SM MOWING
21-01-2014, 08:29 PM
I recon this would make Honda wake up

Make a video of a Honda 216, the new 10% extra Honda and a rover all in a line.

Mowing wet 2inch and 4 inch grass.

surprised no one has done it yet.

Even Honda wont show a video of it as they know it wont work! they just get some jims guy who get his gear for free to say some bullsh*t for 3 minutes and expect the average idi*t to believe them!

GQdude
21-01-2014, 08:53 PM
For those of you like me wondering what happened to Dylan:


7038

PaulG
22-01-2014, 01:40 AM
No Honda based chatter! LOL

Honda_Official_PR
22-01-2014, 10:37 AM
Gents, I have been on paternity leave for the past couple of months, so I was away for much of November, December & the first half of January. I'm sure you'll agree that the birth of your first child is a higher priority than rushing back to work. Still, apologies for the delay in getting back to you.

Yes, the new product I mentioned last year is the 19" Honda "Long Range" Buffalo Mower, which has used your contractor feedback re the chute size (thank you GQdude for sharing it in my absence). It is not going to change the world, but it is specifically designed to make life easier for contractors who were suffering from clogging issues. Nearly 20 separate comments from this forum thread were used in the presentation to head office in the lead up to getting the Long Range produced; I know this because I copied the comments into the presentation.

Admittedly, the Long Range doesn't come in a mulching model, but given that this is a priority for many contractors it is something that I have been assured that engineers are looking to incorporate. It's cold comfort for you now, and it's cold comfort for Honda Australia now, but it is something that is being worked towards.

Honda is certainly not "in bed" with Jim's Mowing; George Labbad is a single franchisee of Jim's Mowing, and he - like all other franchisees - chooses his own equipment. Just like the contractors here on this forum, he has been very honest in his opinions on Honda mowers over the past couple of years, having used them for a long time and acknowledging their strengths and weaknesses. Honda provided Mr Labbad with some points to mention, such as the difference in bag size, and the different chute & airflow design. However, the majority of the words that he speaks in the video are his own.

Before casting it off, can I ask if any contractor here has had the opportunity to use the Long Range yet? It would be unfair to cast judgement on a product before even trying it (I'm sure you'd be a bit miffed if people were saying negative things about your service before they'd had the chance to experience it themselves), so I would like to offer you all the chance to trial the Long Range Buffalo.

If you have a relationship with your local Honda Power Equipment Dealer, can you please send me the name of the dealership in an Private Message before the end of January, and at the start of February I'll ensure that your dealer will have a Long Range unit in stock for you to borrow, so that you can test it out for yourself.

Cheers,
Dylan

PaulG
22-01-2014, 01:41 PM
Message sent Dylan.

NLALM
22-01-2014, 04:43 PM
Message sent Dylan.

You know they only fit the Armstrong model

PaulG
22-01-2014, 06:36 PM
Oh. Stuff that then. I thought it was a 216...

Honda_Official_PR
24-01-2014, 01:21 PM
Oh. Stuff that then. I thought it was a 216...

So PaulG, are you saying you do not want to give this mower a try? As per my email to you, we will be getting in touch with Motor Mecca in February to arrange for them to have one available if you are serious about testing it out.

Let me know.

Cheers,
Dylan

Honda_Official_PR
24-01-2014, 01:23 PM
Yes would be a good way to prove the point give 2 or 3 mowers to independent contractors to test them them out in various conditions,if their as good as they reckon they should have nothing to fear.:rolleyes:

Send me a direct message with your details Tomo, like I mentioned earlier in the week if you have a good relationship with your local Honda dealer then we will arrange for them to have a unit for you to try in your local conditions.

Cheers,
Dylan

GQdude
24-01-2014, 03:36 PM
Hi Dylan, I'm a little confused. After 16 pages of comments, complaints and suggestions relating to the HRU216, you say Honda has listened by modifying a 19" non self propelled mower?

Tomo
24-01-2014, 03:38 PM
Hi Dylan,thank you for the offer to test the 19" Honda "Long Range" Buffalo Mower,....but as far testing the mower at this time of year in Melbourne wouldn't challange the mower properly, with everthing being bone dry from the recent hot spell i think any mower would cut and catch paspalum and dandelion without a problem,

I think the real test for the 19" Honda "Long Range" Buffalo Mower in my opinion would be testing it on wet kikuyu grass that hasn't been mowed for 4 or 5 weeks,if it can cut through it without having to poke the chute with a stick or make any other adjustments and fills the catcher bag up i would certainly consider it.:)

Honda_Official_PR
24-01-2014, 03:44 PM
Hi Dylan,thank you for the offer to test the 19" Honda "Long Range" Buffalo Mower,....but as far testing the mower at this time of year in Melbourne wouldn't challange the mower properly, with everthing being bone dry from the recent hot spell i think any mower would cut and catch paspalum and dandelion without a problem,

I think the real test for the 19" Honda "Long Range" Buffalo Mower in my opinion would be testing it on wet kikuyu grass that hasn't been mowed for 4 or 5 weeks,if it can cut through it without having to poke the chute with a stick or make any other adjustments and fills the catcher bag up i would certainly consider it.:)

No worries Tomo, let me know when you think you'd give it a good run, and I'll see what we can do then. Again, feel free to shoot me a private message when you're ready and, if it's all good from my end, we can sort out the finer details then.

Cheers,
Dylan

Tomo
24-01-2014, 04:06 PM
Hi Dylan, I'm a little confused. After 16 pages of comments, complaints and suggestions relating to the HRU216, you say Honda has listened by modifying a 19" non self propelled mower?

I thought it was a SP......sorry Dylan was only interested in trying a SP which is the main issue here.

bb1
24-01-2014, 04:31 PM
Hi Dylan, I'm a little confused. After 16 pages of comments, complaints and suggestions relating to the HRU216, you say Honda has listened by modifying a 19" non self propelled mower?

And really only gave us the 196 with a permanent Big Bag kit, minus the mulching which has also being knocked on the head. Did they really listen to us ???????????????????

imoww
24-01-2014, 05:47 PM
The 196 already had a large shute for the grass clippings.... And i cant remember any clogging issues with it.. Only the 216...

I thought the new and improved HONDA mower they were talking about was the 216 Self propelled with a larger shute???

Judging from Honda's history, I really dont think anyone would like to buy the new 216 and see how it goes....Probably get the same problems but different cover.

As for removing the mulching and enlarging the shute on the 19inch pushy????
And not the 216 S/P?

bb1
24-01-2014, 05:55 PM
Yes the 196 already had a large chute until they made it the new and improved 196 and it also got the half chute. The original 196 didnt clog only the new and improved 196.

imoww
24-01-2014, 06:38 PM
Ill stick with the old Hondas....
The older ones are better then the "New and improved"

bb1
24-01-2014, 06:57 PM
Ill stick with the old Hondas....
The older ones are better then the "New and improved"

Unfortunately some of us had to "upgrade" and got sucked in by the slick sales, and were lead to believe they were the "new and improved" model.

PaulG
25-01-2014, 09:34 AM
So PaulG, are you saying you do not want to give this mower a try? As per my email to you, we will be getting in touch with Motor Mecca in February to arrange for them to have one available if you are serious about testing it out.

Let me know.

Cheers,
Dylan

Sorry Dylan,

I completely didn't realise this was a 196; a had in my mind that it was a modified 216.

I already have an older 196 with a full, open chute and it's a great mower but I mainly just use it here at home these days. 100% of my client lawns are done with the old 216D.

geoff1969
25-01-2014, 10:39 AM
Sorry Dylan,

I completely didn't realise this was a 196; a had in my mind that it was a modified 216.

I already have an older 196 with a full, open chute and it's a great mower but I mainly just use it here at home these days. 100% of my client lawns are done with the old 216D.



why dont ya just give it a crack PAULG after all its free to try and if Dylan is keen to set it up for you = still good feed back for honda ,

PaulG
25-01-2014, 11:00 AM
I thought about that but I don't really have anything to compare it to as a benchmark not having used any of the more recent Honda models.

NLALM
25-01-2014, 06:49 PM
I just wish Honda would ask real contractors you know someone with a few hundred lawns so you know they are smashing their mowers, they have to to get the work done. Not give jim some more free advertising, They tell us that they have had gear tested by contractors, well who are they, give us a list so we can ring em up we need fair dinkum people to give their unbiased opinions not piss in Hondas pocket.

imoww
25-01-2014, 09:49 PM
Dylan is offering a free demo on what we already know is a good PUSH mower. (And as usual Honda went the wrong way this time by removing the mulching.....) Besides... Why would we want to push a mower around all day-When we have the Self propelled???

So theres no real wow factor here. Just Honda waving the flag again.
As for the contractors testing the Honda gear???? Yep. just one Jim's mowing guy. And he doesnt even have that i mow 10 jobs per day look to him either...
The bottom line is... There is no change to Honda. Just getting cheaper and less for more money.
They dont listen to us... They are a business to make as much as they can get. Their stuff is now made in Thailand and China too. So im really thinking of going to another brand.

BSD
25-01-2014, 09:57 PM
Like really....there is so much crap about honda here i just wont look at anything with the name, why not just ban any honda blogs forthwith. And lets get moving again.Eff Jimbo's, VIP'S, etc, work on our/your setup and get on with things.
Dylan is offering a free demo on what we already know is a good PUSH mower. (And as usual Honda went the wrong way this time by removing the mulching.....) Besides... Why would we want to push a mower around all day-When we have the Self propelled???

So theres no real wow factor here. Just Honda waving the flag again.
As for the contractors testing the Honda gear???? Yep. just one Jim's mowing guy. And he doesnt even have that i mow 10 jobs per day look to him either...
The bottom line is... There is no change to Honda. Just getting cheaper and less for more money.
They dont listen to us... They are a business to make as much as they can get. Their stuff is now made in Thailand and China too. So im really thinking of going to another brand.