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Andy B
12-03-2013, 07:44 PM
Hi all,

I was just reading the other thread just started in this section today and I figure something good/great we could do is tell them what we want, that way they can do up some sort of spread sheet and please more of us, more easily.

I'll start, I work 20min from capital city, mostly blocks from 400sqm to 1000spm, I basically need 2 mowers for what I do as just one will never cut it. (excuse the pun)

1st mower: needs to be light!!!!19 inch or smaller? and would love it to be less than 30kg I find lifting the mower up embankments or down steps a bit of a strain, needs to mulch and catch but most importantly needs to be light, I really don't care if it's got a blade brake or half a chute cause they don't bother me. Prefer a snorkel and a plastic catcher but material one is fine. I'm okay with open ending as opposed to a side throw cause this mower is mainly used in small residential areas where clippings are either caught or mulched.

2nd mower: needs to be self propelled, needs to be at least 21inch, needs to be unbreakable, needs to mulch and catch. Snorkel and material bag are fine and side throw would be a nice option for larger blocks for that ride on sort of finish but I'm okay with the way the current 216m2 rear flap directs the clippings down to the ground as opposed to into the shins.

I'm clearly a little rough on my machines and the plastic plugs on the height adjusters and the front axle get worn out, once even loosing one corner of the height adjuster and dropping the spinning blades down to ground on a patch of lawn.

Hope that helps.

GardenGuy
12-03-2013, 09:37 PM
19"? Grab a Victa Razor deck, if you can find one of that vintage. They were mostly domestic, so a good deck shouldn't be hard to find. Strap a 500 series B&S on it and you have a 28 kg, 19" alloy, 4 blade, mulch and catch rig that you can carry almost anywhere. You could mount a larger donk on it if you would like more torque. Cheap as, and it has padded ergonomic handles too... Oooh-err! :D Just be sure of the blades... there is some real rubbish out there lately (e.g. cutting face is down, not up, so messes with the mulching and catching physics and cut heights). You can even find hard catchers on the kerb at council clean-ups.

21" SP? I think somebody else had better speak up on this point. I'm still in disgrace for having chosen to trial a particular machine that is not well proven... :(

Cheers - GardenGuy.

ian
12-03-2013, 09:42 PM
Andy this is why i use the older 197's 31.8kg and i fit a Victa Honda snorkel to them, the current 197's are 36kg and the current 196's are a whopping 44 kg

Honda weights
http://www.indmowing.com.au/forum/showthread.php?924-honda-mower-weight/page2&highlight=mower+weights

administrator
13-03-2013, 10:20 AM
Agree Ian Hru before the mow safe range are alot better .I did suggest to Ray at Honda just bring back the hru196d and the hru216d for contractors .They assemble them here in Victoria so shouldnt be a problem .

courty
13-03-2013, 05:00 PM
This place was a week overdue due to the weather we have had,now I wouldn't call this to bad but do expect a $1400.00 contractor machine to be able to handle it.Power wise it was ok but having to stop and clear the chute after every one and half runs when the catcher was nowhere near full is so annoying.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c75/gcourt/photo-35_zps1c013e2b.jpg

GardenGuy
13-03-2013, 06:16 PM
If the catcher is >65% full and the cut material has a high water content, both the Honda originals and the clones are useless. The chute will plug up.

Maybe the fix is known, but I'll be cynical and suggest that it might be kept back so that the supplier can do an "Apple" and sell incremental improvements each season or so, at a new and higher price point. Either that or the machinery suppliers are clueless for a solution.

Cheers - GardenGuy.

bb1
13-03-2013, 06:40 PM
If the catcher is >65% full and the cut material has a high water content, both the Honda originals and the clones are useless. The chute will plug up.

Maybe the fix is known, but I'll be cynical and suggest that it might be kept back so that the supplier can do an "Apple" and sell incremental improvements each season or so, at a new and higher price point. Either that or the machinery suppliers are clueless for a solution.

Cheers - GardenGuy.

The old style 196 would always fill the catcher when the grass was wet, the new one with the half chute just blocks the chute and wont fill. Honda's solution to me was double mow the lawn, they have no concept that double mowing is double time, the client is not going to be happy having to pay more for the same job. Honda just have no concept of contractor mowing.

PaulG
13-03-2013, 07:34 PM
Glenn are you going through that in 1st gear? Similar result to what I'm getting here at teh moment.

courty
13-03-2013, 07:49 PM
Yeah mate 1st gear only,that and clearing the chute is bloody time consuming.

South East Mowing
13-03-2013, 07:55 PM
Agree Ian Hru before the mow safe range are alot better .I did suggest to Ray at Honda just bring back the hru196d and the hru216d for contractors .They assemble them here in Victoria so shouldnt be a problem .

Why not just go with the 195's and 215's with a little more grunt but no more weight:D. I'm still good with these for the next 10 years or so because I did not like what I was seeing with the newer machines.

ian
13-03-2013, 08:19 PM
The old style 196 would always fill the catcher when the grass was wet, the new one with the half chute just blocks the chute and wont fill. Honda's solution to me was double mow the lawn, they have no concept that double mowing is double time, the client is not going to be happy having to pay more for the same job. Honda just have no concept of contractor mowing.

no concept and it would appear don't care
As I've said before i find it amazing that the main complaint from contractors regarding the 216 is and has been for a long time the small width rear chute so how could Honda consult mowing contractors then come out with a new design for their 19" mowers which changed them from a full width to a small width chute the only way i can see this happening is if they just ignored them and did what they felt like

ian
13-03-2013, 08:30 PM
lets look at the old and the new 'improved' 196
the old one had a full width chute
the new one has a small chute
the old one weighted 35kg
the new one weights 44kg

just what every contractor wants a push mower with a small chute that weighs 9kg (25%) more
i took one look at the current model 197 when they released them and went and brought 2 of the older style

bb1
13-03-2013, 08:46 PM
The attitude from honda to contractors isnt just with the product, their dealer network dont seem to care anymore either. When I purchased the new 196, found a few days later it was pi ss ing fuel everywhere, took it back in, and they wanted to put it in the queue, come back in 3weeks time thanks. No I said, I just bought it a couple of days ago i want it fixed now, took some discussion, but 10 minutes later I had my mower back. Back a few years ago they would have just rolled it out the back and fixed it, no questions asked, not me have to argue to get it done straight away

ian
13-03-2013, 09:25 PM
i think you just have a s**t dealer i never have a problem with mike at mt waverley

Mrs HMS
13-03-2013, 09:36 PM
They make far more out of their retails sales, they can spend less on the product and charge much more for it, plus it tends to not break down within the warranty period.
That's why they don't care. Pure economics unfortunately

ian
13-03-2013, 09:43 PM
They make far more out of their retails sales, they can spend less on the product and charge much more for it, plus it tends to not break down within the warranty period.
That's why they don't care. Pure economics unfortunately
:laughing: I've had 6 of 8 in for warranty repairs within a month :laughing:
but yes you are correct and while contractors still continue to use them they will get the free advertising of it's the one contractors use, even a lot of contractors use them because that's what they see others using

Redeye
13-03-2013, 09:45 PM
so long as people are silly enough to keep buying them ($1400+ :help:) why would they change? the vast majority of faults/complaints on here relate to honda yet everyone keeps buying them - does my head in

Lawn Mowing Professionals
13-03-2013, 10:10 PM
so long as people are silly enough to keep buying them ($1400+ :help:) why would they change? the vast majority of faults/complaints on here relate to honda yet everyone keeps buying them - does my head in

Yes... there are alot of silly people out there. Lets be honest... Honda doesn't want "your" business except for the initial sale so your a rolling billboard.

From what i have heard countless of times before is Honda makes you battle them with any warranty issues and aftersales support... The current model is "apparently" an inferior product that isn't anywhere close to the standards required for the Australian market.

You can bring in a Honda from the US cheaper with better specs... so it is available!

Not to mention, You could almost purchase 3 rovers and give them an easy life of running only 1 or 2 days each a week for almost the same price.

I wonder when Honda will be replying to all this feedback :i dunno: Great marketing for them though!!!!

Has anyone considered buying or bought the "commercial" model? is it worth the extra $$$$ or another marketing ploy to make the "average one to look reasonable value!

There is no competition for commecial grade mowers... so why would they change anything?

Simmo.

Lawn Mowing Professionals
13-03-2013, 10:22 PM
:laughing: I've had 6 of 8 in for warranty repairs within a month :laughing:
but yes you are correct and while contractors still continue to use them they will get the free advertising of it's the one contractors use, even a lot of contractors use them because that's what they see others using

So why do you continue to buy them?

Ian, Do you think they would have still gone in for warranty within a month if it was a dedicated domestic user? (lets say 25 mows a year x 2 years warranty = 50 lawns) That's only a weeks work for most established contractor's. Wouldn't that mean a months work for a contractor be equivelent to 8 years for domestic use???

This is why Honda (in my opinion) needs to produce a quality and robust commercial mower.

Anyway... that's enough of me promoting honda.

Simmo.

Blaktop
13-03-2013, 10:26 PM
I'd be interested in trying one these mowers that people keep saying will fill the bag with no blocking in high moisture conditions. I've got two 216Ds and although I like them generally with the current high moisture content in the grass I'm having the same problem, they mow fine but don't fill the bag. Even after a week of sunshine the moisture content is very high

ian
13-03-2013, 10:59 PM
So why do you continue to buy them?

Ian, Do you think they would have still gone in for warranty within a month if it was a dedicated domestic user? (lets say 25 mows a year x 2 years warranty = 50 lawns) That's only a weeks work for most established contractor's. Wouldn't that mean a months work for a contractor be equivelent to 8 years for domestic use???

This is why Honda (in my opinion) needs to produce a quality and robust commercial mower.

Anyway... that's enough of me promoting honda.

Simmo.

1st warranty 2nd 195 was a broken starter spring mower was only i think about 2weeks old
2nd was i waited for the new 195 with reinforced lower handle and axles the rear axle snapped the weld on the 1st lawn :)
3rd was a 196 backfiring from the 1st lawn in for repair started backfiring again on the 2nd lawn had the carby replaced
4th 1st 197 the blade carrier fell to the ground on i think the 1st lawn the bolt had sheared off
5th kept playing up in the end found part between carby and engine had been put in backwards
6th mower kept stalling eventually realised it was the mower not the way the wife was using it took it back nd part of the engine housing wasn't machined/cast properly fix under warranty
so 1st 195 and last 197 have been the only ones not put in under warranty and i think 4 of the 6 would have been picked up by a consumer the other 2 may have been or may have just had them saying it was a useless piece of c***

note after the initial repair they have all given years of hard service and the old 19" models suited my setup the new ones don't so it will be repair what i have,find another brand I'm happy with or change my whole setup but if i change my setup it probably won't be with Honda i will probably from reviews change to Rover or MTD

Honda_Official_PR
15-03-2013, 03:35 PM
Hi folks, my name is Dylan and I work for Honda head office in the marketing & PR area. I've been working at Honda for six months so I will in no way be able to answer all of your questions at once. Personally, my technical knowledge is still building but rest assured that I will be passing many of your concerns on to our senior management.

I want to let you know that yes, we really do care that contractors such as yourselves have concerns about some of our products. We realise that the contractor market for Honda has decreased over the past few years and this is something that we want to rectify. Research & Development is something we contribute to a lot, and most of the suggestions that we forward on to our R&D teams overseas are spawned from comments and suggestions like the ones you have mentioned.

You may be aware that in late 2012 Honda introduced the 'Big Bag Kit', which is designed to make life easier as you mow the many lawns that contractors do. For more information you can read more about it here: http://powerequipment.honda.com.au/Latest_News/20121030/Hondas_new_Big_Bag_Kit_%E2%80%93_Making_Tough_Jobs _Easier but it is designed with a larger chute and a larger catching bag. It can be attached to all Honda 19" mowers, and your local Honda dealer will be able to fit it to your existing mower in about half an hour.

Again, thanks for expressing your concerns and feedback about these couple of mowers. They are being taken on board and you can rest assured that, as I mentioned, I will raise them with senior management.

Regards,
Dylan.

bb1
15-03-2013, 04:07 PM
Hi dylan welcome aboard.

I have just checked out the Big bag kit and spoken to a dealer (no names). The big issue I can see and this was the general view he has gotten from contractors, as soon as you attach the big bag kit, no mulching plug. Bingo, useless for contractors. Its interesting you say that honda have lost market share to contractors, this is exactly one reason why, you introduce a retrofit (which we have to pay for), to supposedly make it better for contractors, your advertising blurb says it, but you take away one of the things a contractor wants.

andrew
15-03-2013, 04:25 PM
welcome Dylan ....

yes , loss of mulching plug is a detriment and far from being an upgrade

3 steps back , 1 step forward :rolleyes:

GardenGuy
15-03-2013, 04:59 PM
Nice to meet you, Dylan.

I hope that your kind greeting and introduction can become the genesis of an effective resolution of the troubles which contractors have with your brand, and perhaps something more useful for both your company and we contractors, moving forward. It is hoped that the change can occur at a fairly quick rate.

We recognise that you, as a person, will be forced to tow the corporate line. We hope that your modes of influence and evidence-based encouragement can cause the necessary members of your firm to think and act favourably. The busiest part of the season is slowing now, for some. You're lucky enough to have a small number of weeks on your side so that you can help your company and a market sector who is feeling somewhere between "unloved" and "forcibly abused".

Please remind the management that the revenue and profit streams which they are not receiving benefit from are:
Machinery sales
Consumable sales

Likewise, they need to be reminded that some imported Honda-engined appliances may have different performance characteristics and durability, and may impact Honda's preferred brand reputation in this market segment. For Honda and its agents to say "Yes, they're copies, but we're better" is of little value. Honda needs to consolidate its support for a market segment which provides profitable and loyal revenue.

Disloyalty to the brand, by commercial clients choosing clone or similar products, is because the brand has been disloyal and, dare I say it, arrogant toward commercial clients.

It's all up to you. I hope that you don't sully the brand, or your own name, with some shallow platitudes. That kind of mess is very hard to remove from a company's name and reputation, and may take many years and much expense to repair.

Good luck, man. Good luck.

Best Regards - GardenGuy.

Andy B
16-03-2013, 10:36 AM
Hi Dylan, and welcome!

Not sure if this thread has helped you with varied opinions of what we all want yet but here's hoping. However as you probably know all good conversations never stay on the same topic. :)

administrator
14-05-2013, 08:21 AM
Hi Dylan
Question why hasnt Honda returned the HRU 216 AND 196 BACK INTO THE MARKET .

Question see link http://www.masters.com.au/product/900031258/tpe-self-drive-mower-530mm-tn011 Why do you let all your competition take more sales from your Australian company .

Matt1972
14-05-2013, 09:37 AM
One of my local mower shops does a 216 copy for $1000. Only looked at it briefly as I was looking for parts for my Atom edger, but will probably check it out soon. I'm not a fan of the blade brake on the new Honda's, although I can see the benefits regarding safety, as it's one more thing that can break down on a mower that just doesn't seem to be as solidly built as they used to be. I'm still considering the rover, great price, but I like a 3 speed gearbox. My other option is the one Arfa imported. Just want to wait another 6 months or so to see how it goes longterm, but seems good so far.

bb1
14-05-2013, 01:21 PM
Hi Dylan
Question why hasnt Honda returned the HRU 216 AND 196 BACK INTO THE MARKET .

Question see link http://www.masters.com.au/product/900031258/tpe-self-drive-mower-530mm-tn011 Why do you let all your competition take more sales from your Australian company .

Another question for Honda, whats happened to Dylan, no posts since early April, does this show what honda thinks about us contractors, the sales pitch didnt work,

Honda_Official_PR
14-05-2013, 04:39 PM
Hi all,

In regards to the TPE mowers that you've referred to, although they have what appears to be a Honda engine on their mowers, we are very concerned with their appearance in the marketplace because these units are not designed for Australian conditions.

If you look closely, you will see that these TPE mowers have had their engine serial numbers ground down. As I'm sure you can agree, this is very concerning as these mowers will not be covered by any Honda warranty, and really question the motives of the seller.

For more information on these ground down serial numbers, I encourage you to visit www.hondaserialoffenders.com.au (http://www.hondaserialoffenders.com.au)

The HRU216 and HRU196 are both available currently - you should find them at your local authorised Honda dealer, or by visiting our website at http://powerequipment.honda.com.au

I hope that helps!

(Also, I haven't gone anywhere :wave-hi: - it doesn't seem that there have been any posts on this thread in the last 4 weeks or so, so I haven't had any questions to answer! Don't think I haven't forgotten about you!)

Cheers,
Dylan

PaulG
14-05-2013, 05:50 PM
Dylan do you run/admin the Honda Facebook page as well?

BSD
14-05-2013, 09:02 PM
Well if your so concerned why not send out the BIG BOYS and sort it out??, waiting for us to dob in a norty retailer is stupid, i'm so glad i didn't buy a chonda 6 weeks ago, just remember the sales staff at these joints think that they're selling the real deal, not thier fault, just reccomending what the pro's use.....so Honda Australia and honda from China are not the same??????
Hi all,

In regards to the TPE mowers that you've referred to, although they have what appears to be a Honda engine on their mowers, we are very concerned with their appearance in the marketplace because these units are not designed for Australian conditions.

If you look closely, you will see that these TPE mowers have had their engine serial numbers ground down. As I'm sure you can agree, this is very concerning as these mowers will not be covered by any Honda warranty, and really question the motives of the seller.

For more information on these ground down serial numbers, I encourage you to visit www.hondaserialoffenders.com.au (http://www.hondaserialoffenders.com.au)

The HRU216 and HRU196 are both available currently - you should find them at your local authorised Honda dealer, or by visiting our website at http://powerequipment.honda.com.au

I hope that helps!

(Also, I haven't gone anywhere :wave-hi: - it doesn't seem that there have been any posts on this thread in the last 4 weeks or so, so I haven't had any questions to answer! Don't think I haven't forgotten about you!)

Cheers,
Dylan

Lawn Mowing Professionals
14-05-2013, 09:48 PM
Stick to a "GENUINE" Rover Procut 560... China aren't even bothered to make a clone aftermarket model to compete on price. (to my knowledge they haven't!)

Why? it's simple.. they are realistically priced in the marketplace and what else does china compete on!

Good value mower combined with reliability and in my experience (great dealer support)... makes the choice an absolute no brainer!

Everyone to there own.

Simmo.

Lawn Mowing Professionals
14-05-2013, 11:24 PM
Stick to a "GENUINE" Rover Procut 560... China aren't even bothered to make a clone aftermarket model to compete on price. (to my knowledge they haven't!)

Why? it's simple.. they are realistically priced in the marketplace and what else does china compete on!

Good value mower combined with reliability and in my experience (great dealer support)... makes the choice an absolute no brainer!

Everyone to there own.

Simmo.

Forgot to add in the above post... what do we want from Honda?

To half the costs, improve the mowing specs and review there dealer network setup would be a starting point :i dunno:

Honda, the power of dreams...

the power seems to be somewhat lost!

Simmo.

fairdinkum
15-05-2013, 03:34 AM
Forgot to add in the above post... what do we want from Honda?

To half the costs, improve the mowing specs and review there dealer network setup would be a starting point :i dunno:

Honda, the power of dreams...

the power seems to be somewhat lost!

Simmo.

Just wondering simmo. From your own personal experience, what is wrong with Honda? Personally, I find them brilliant and have no need to even bother trying anything else. For the $1500 I paid each for mine, they have mowed a minimum of 1300 lawns each. That's about $1.15 per lawn so far. And it goes down with every lawn. They are good on fuel and with the blade brake I get away with changing the blades about 6 times per year. And they don't break down so I don't have to bother carrying 2 or 3 mowers around. I just rotate them every now and then and give the one in the shed a good clean, inspection and service. If they were cheaper, I wouldn't complain but for around a buck a lawn I don't mind too much.

bb1
15-05-2013, 06:58 AM
Would like Dylans comments on this thread.

http://www.indmowing.com.au/forum/showthread.php?11450-Honda-HRX217HYA-imported-from-USA-A-better-mower-for-less-than-an-Aussie-HRU/page6

bb1
15-05-2013, 06:59 AM
and another

http://www.indmowing.com.au/forum/showthread.php?8618-New-HONDA-UMK425-BRUSHCUTTER-470

bb1
15-05-2013, 07:02 AM
Hi all,


The HRU216 and HRU196 are both available currently - you should find them at your local authorised Honda dealer, or by visiting our website at http://powerequipment.honda.com.au

I hope that helps!

Dylan

Dylan, I think when we say why arent you returning the 196 and 216 to the market we mean the original one's, remember the ones that performed in all conditions before you introduced the "new and improved" versions which are absolute rubbish in the wet

bb1
15-05-2013, 07:27 AM
and another

http://www.indmowing.com.au/forum/showthread.php?11662-half-throat-honda-mowers-in-wet-grass-solved-by-www-sterlinggardenservices-com

bb1
15-05-2013, 07:28 AM
Oh and of course the one I cant find now, but it was where you tried your sales pitch to get me to buy a Big bag kit. Which I commented was unsuitable as it looses the mulching capability, and even a couple of dealers said they had not sold any.

bb1
15-05-2013, 07:29 AM
I must have taken my grumpy pills this morning

PaulG
15-05-2013, 08:55 AM
Oh and of course the one I cant find now, but it was where you tried your sales pitch to get me to buy a Big bag kit. Which I commented was unsuitable as it looses the mulching capability, and even a couple of dealers said they had not sold any.

You'll be pleased to know it has been nominated for the award of Best New Product (Ancillary) for Power Equipment Australasia magazine's awards. Hardly an objective award though as nominations are put forward by OPE suppliers themselves and not industry operators/contractors.

Mrs HMS
15-05-2013, 01:30 PM
Oh and of course the one I cant find now, but it was where you tried your sales pitch to get me to buy a Big bag kit. Which I commented was unsuitable as it looses the mulching capability, and even a couple of dealers said they had not sold any.

Here 'tis... http://www.indmowing.com.au/forum/showthread.php?11643-What-we-want-from-honda&p=116151&viewfull=1#post116151

bb1
15-05-2013, 03:12 PM
You'll be pleased to know it has been nominated for the award of Best New Product (Ancillary) for Power Equipment Australasia magazine's awards. Hardly an objective award though as nominations are put forward by OPE suppliers themselves and not industry operators/contractors.

And from what I gather from dealers (3 now), they have not sold one, one even suggested it may be able to be covered under warrantly as the mower was so bad in the wet.. Hands up all those on the forum who have purchased one.

bb1
15-05-2013, 03:12 PM
Here 'tis... http://www.indmowing.com.au/forum/showthread.php?11643-What-we-want-from-honda&p=116151&viewfull=1#post116151

Thanks Joanne, saved me a search

happymowin
15-05-2013, 08:44 PM
Just wondering simmo. From your own personal experience, what is wrong with Honda? Personally, I find them brilliant and have no need to even bother trying anything else. For the $1500 I paid each for mine, they have mowed a minimum of 1300 lawns each. That's about $1.15 per lawn so far. And it goes down with every lawn. They are good on fuel and with the blade brake I get away with changing the blades about 6 times per year. And they don't break down so I don't have to bother carrying 2 or 3 mowers around. I just rotate them every now and then and give the one in the shed a good clean, inspection and service. If they were cheaper, I wouldn't complain but for around a buck a lawn I don't mind too much.


umm, i think the ones who like their hondas are fewer and further between.

i hate hondas cos:

they choke up the chute, so i have to use a stick to clear it 3 times to get a full bag (and compress the clips in the bag as i go) then use the stick when the bags full to clear the chute when you empty the bag.

rovers fill the catcher every time, and i rarely have to manually clear the chute.

hondas are expensive to buy, maintain and replace gearboxes on ( i hear the new ones are getting about 6 to 8 months out of them, then its like $600 to replace it) $600 buys you a whole new rover - and a new clutch on a rover costs $20 to do yourslef, or $100 for the shop to do it, and by my experience, the mower will be up for replacement before that happens.

hondas are underpowered compared to rovers too, the hondas 160cc engine compared to the 196cc 910 engine.

hondas are way HEAVIER than rovers - harder on stairs, loading unloading, harder on the grass underfoot (seen especially in wet soil)

to my mind the ONLY thing that i like on the honda is the gearbox, and now with the new SP handle on the PC50, i can ride that clutch and go as slow or fast as i like

and at full speed the rover is quicker than a honda in 3rd.


in fact rovers are so cheap you could almost go by what an old hand on the fourum did, and NEVER service it, and just buy a new one each year or 2 when it gets ruined from something. ("almost")


but im sure you have heard all this before, lol


cheers !!!

bb1
15-05-2013, 09:03 PM
Hi all,

In regards to the TPE mowers that you've referred to, although they have what appears to be a Honda engine on their mowers, we are very concerned with their appearance in the marketplace because these units are not designed for Australian conditions.

If you look closely, you will see that these TPE mowers have had their engine serial numbers ground down. As I'm sure you can agree, this is very concerning as these mowers will not be covered by any Honda warranty, and really question the motives of the seller.



So do I get this right, are you saying that Masters are selling mowers and claiming that they have Honda engines, whereas they really aren't ????

fairdinkum
16-05-2013, 06:33 AM
umm, i think the ones who like their hondas are fewer and further between.

i hate hondas cos:

they choke up the chute, so i have to use a stick to clear it 3 times to get a full bag (and compress the clips in the bag as i go) then use the stick when the bags full to clear the chute when you empty the bag.

rovers fill the catcher every time, and i rarely have to manually clear the chute.

hondas are expensive to buy, maintain and replace gearboxes on ( i hear the new ones are getting about 6 to 8 months out of them, then its like $600 to replace it) $600 buys you a whole new rover - and a new clutch on a rover costs $20 to do yourslef, or $100 for the shop to do it, and by my experience, the mower will be up for replacement before that happens.

hondas are underpowered compared to rovers too, the hondas 160cc engine compared to the 196cc 910 engine.

hondas are way HEAVIER than rovers - harder on stairs, loading unloading, harder on the grass underfoot (seen especially in wet soil)

to my mind the ONLY thing that i like on the honda is the gearbox, and now with the new SP handle on the PC50, i can ride that clutch and go as slow or fast as i like

and at full speed the rover is quicker than a honda in 3rd.


in fact rovers are so cheap you could almost go by what an old hand on the fourum did, and NEVER service it, and just buy a new one each year or 2 when it gets ruined from something. ("almost")


but im sure you have heard all this before, lol


cheers !!!

Thanks for the response SIMMO

happymowin
16-05-2013, 06:45 AM
no worries mate !!

but i think youll find the answer is the same, whoever gives it to you - look how many people have been dishing it out on honda, and usiong other mowers whether theyre rover or others.

i didnt realise only simo was allowed to answer your question - sorry about that - unless of course youre just trying to annoy simmo by asking questions, in which case try again !!!

Mrs HMS
16-05-2013, 12:10 PM
i didnt realise only simo was allowed to answer your question - sorry about that - unless of course youre just trying to annoy simmo by asking questions, in which case try again !!!

Unless he is implying that your response was a little on the....verbose....side :D

AJD Mowing
16-05-2013, 03:03 PM
Very cleverly put Joanne :wave-hi:

Lawn Mowing Professionals
16-05-2013, 07:14 PM
Unless he is implying that your response was a little on the....verbose....side :D

lol... nice one, but i doubt it though... everyone knows that I'm a figment of happy's imagination :D (nice 1 liner!!!)

Simmo.

happymowin
16-05-2013, 07:16 PM
ahh maybe if joannes correct you should change my answer to

"nah mate, hondas are cr@p
get yaself a rover cuzzy"

:D

Mrs HMS
16-05-2013, 07:28 PM
"nah mate, hondas are cr@p
get yaself a rover cuzzy"
:D

The Reader's Digest Abridged Version of Happy's previous post :D

Lawn Mowing Professionals
16-05-2013, 07:43 PM
Just wondering simmo. From your own personal experience, what is wrong with Honda? Personally, I find them brilliant and have no need to even bother trying anything else. For the $1500 I paid each for mine, they have mowed a minimum of 1300 lawns each. That's about $1.15 per lawn so far. And it goes down with every lawn. They are good on fuel and with the blade brake I get away with changing the blades about 6 times per year. And they don't break down so I don't have to bother carrying 2 or 3 mowers around. I just rotate them every now and then and give the one in the shed a good clean, inspection and service. If they were cheaper, I wouldn't complain but for around a buck a lawn I don't mind too much.

From my personal experience - I have an issue with:

The cost (which i mentioned before) - Should be half the cost like a CHONDA or ROVER.
Mowing specs - underpowered in thick wet grass and you need a stick to unclog it.
Dealer network - poor support network, i'm not sure who you use - ever tried getting something done sameday? with my rover dealer i can.

Which is why i suggested to HONDA to look into these issues.

I also find it easy to put my rover on my trailer and take off... honda was a couple of mm short on my tray and i would have to roll and lift it.

I only used the honda for about a month (honda mower, whipper, blower)... and then i sold the run with all the equipment. I was using it in April 2010 - and was very wet conditions.

Maybe you should speak to your local STihl dealer that you use... I know he sells rover! ask him about rover and what the dealer support is like... if you get good support from HONDA, like there price and they are reliable... stick with a honda.

To give you an idea... your $3000 investment (2 honda's) is equivelent to my $1150 investment (2 rovers). I currently only have 1 and i'm confident to stick with just one at this stage. If something major happens (can't think of anything beside the motor), i will buy another unit and do what you do and rotate the 2 unts.

My biggest problem with honda is you are paying top dollar for an average mower... I have spoke to a dozen local contractors and they all whinge about honda gearboxes and the chute clogging. A few jims around us use a honda and a rover depending on the conditions.

Jason, Have you ever had an issue with the gearbox on yours, has the chute ever clogged up or poor downtime from a honda dealer?

Simmo.

bb1
16-05-2013, 08:41 PM
I'll give an example of Honda's great after sales service (by this I mean the second they have your money). Purchased a new mower, noticed it had a fuel leak (ie. tank would drain a few hours after I filled it). Took it back within a couple of days. Thats fine we will look at it, it will be a week before you can pick it up.

They sold me a dodgy mower, than want me to wait a week to fix there stuff up. I had a good arguement with the guy, and he eventually took it out the back, ten minutes later, rolled it out all fixed, yes we had put one of the seals on wrong, a common problem he said. So why did I have to argue to get it fixed.

They also make a big deal about giving us a discount (becuase we are a contractor), yet they offer the same discount to Joe blow off the street.

AJD Mowing
16-05-2013, 08:42 PM
The Reader's Digest Abridged Version of Happy's previous post :D

I love a short story Joanne.. You are a clever one :wave-hi:

Lawn Mowing Professionals
16-05-2013, 08:51 PM
I'll give an example of Honda's great after sales service (by this I mean the second they have your money). Purchased a new mower, noticed it had a fuel leak (ie. tank would drain a few hours after I filled it). Took it back within a couple of days. Thats fine we will look at it, it will be a week before you can pick it up.

They sold me a dodgy mower, than want me to wait a week to fix there stuff up. I had a good arguement with the guy, and he eventually took it out the back, ten minutes later, rolled it out all fixed, yes we had put one of the seals on wrong, a common problem he said. So why did I have to argue to get it fixed.

They also make a big deal about giving us a discount (becuase we are a contractor), yet they offer the same discount to Joe blow off the street.

I can tell you why... they don't want your business, they only want your money. Maybe Honda prefers it this way or honda simply doesn't pay there dealers well for warranty claims to make it worthwhile? :m fight

Simmo.

Lawn Mowing Professionals
16-05-2013, 08:52 PM
I'll give an example of Honda's great after sales service (by this I mean the second they have your money). Purchased a new mower, noticed it had a fuel leak (ie. tank would drain a few hours after I filled it). Took it back within a couple of days. Thats fine we will look at it, it will be a week before you can pick it up.

They sold me a dodgy mower, than want me to wait a week to fix there stuff up. I had a good arguement with the guy, and he eventually took it out the back, ten minutes later, rolled it out all fixed, yes we had put one of the seals on wrong, a common problem he said. So why did I have to argue to get it fixed.

They also make a big deal about giving us a discount (becuase we are a contractor), yet they offer the same discount to Joe blow off the street.

I can tell you why... they don't want your business, they only want your money. Maybe Honda prefers it this way or honda simply doesn't pay there dealers well for warranty claims to make it worthwhile? :m fight

Simmo.

geoff1969
16-05-2013, 09:02 PM
I can tell you why... they don't want your business, they only want your money. Maybe Honda prefers it this way or honda simply doesn't pay there dealers well for warranty claims to make it worthwhile? :m fight

Simmo.

i run mostly honda and stihl equipment from my local family run and owned dealer and the few little issues ive ever had with either of those brands had been rectified imdiatly while i have waited .. maybe we could have a thread your best supplier and why ... I would love to advertise my dealer and his location and put a plug in for him ..

bb1
16-05-2013, 09:16 PM
The biggest problem I see is they know they have a captive market, I have 2 dealers within reasonable distance, but both are as bad as each other. and they know the average contractor doesnt want to drive to far to get service. Time is money and they know it.

Lawn Mowing Professionals
16-05-2013, 09:33 PM
Slightly Offtopic... but still relevant.

How many people on here who own a honda fix there own equipment?

For those that don't, would you ever consider fixing it yourself?

Simmo.

bb1
16-05-2013, 09:42 PM
change the blades, replace wheels, other minor stuff. but when it comes to that thing they call an engine, i look and it and say yes it has one, but. Now if it was run by a computer no problems let me at it

HPM
16-05-2013, 09:58 PM
Slightly Offtopic... but still relevant.

How many people on here who own a honda fix there own equipment?

For those that don't, would you ever consider fixing it yourself?

Simmo.

Me. Do all my repairs on all my equip inc engine and gbox rebuilds. Don't trust anyone else to touch my gear.

On the honda dealers...I haven't found one yet that gives good service! And if you've been overseas you will know Australia is the worst country for retail/hospitality service it's not just Honda dealers...

fairdinkum
17-05-2013, 06:07 AM
Slightly Offtopic... but still relevant.

How many people on here who own a honda fix there own equipment?

For those that don't, would you ever consider fixing it yourself?

Simmo.

I do my maintenance regularly and I have a crack at fixing everything first. 90% of the times some really major symptoms are the result of really minor ailments. My first consideration is always to try and fix things myself. Since I was a kid I've always loved to pull things apart and put them (mostly) back together. I like to see how things work. If a machine fails under warranty I will take it back to the dealer but I generally don't trust anyone else with my machines (except my dad). In the 3 years I have had my hondas, I have only had 1 in the shop once. That was for a gearbox that exploded when the machine was 8 months old (2 months out of warranty). Honda agreed to fix it anyway rather than charging me the $450 + labour. The gearbox was shipped from melbourne and I had my mower back and running in 2 days. That was about 2 years ago and it's still going strong.

AJD Mowing
17-05-2013, 07:04 AM
Slightly Offtopic... but still relevant.

How many people on here who own a honda fix there own equipment?

For those that don't, would you ever consider fixing it yourself?

Simmo.

I have heard from a lot of people the rovers are good but I have only ever had hondas. I have thought of getting one and trying it but I am going to stick with the devil I know mainly because There are not to much goes wrong that you cant fix yourself. Drive dogs, cables, bearings, springs etc and my mate greenie is a master with the gearbox.. I have a large range of spare parts in my garage and If I get say a rover I would need to learn all over and get another set of diferent spare parts. I am happy with the honda's and have headed advice from here to fix the wet grass in the catcher problem..

What do you do Simmo do you fix your gear yourself?

Lawn Mowing Professionals
17-05-2013, 07:37 AM
I have heard from a lot of people the rovers are good but I have only ever had hondas. I have thought of getting one and trying it but I am going to stick with the devil I know mainly because There are not to much goes wrong that you cant fix yourself. Drive dogs, cables, bearings, springs etc and my mate greenie is a master with the gearbox.. I have a large range of spare parts in my garage and If I get say a rover I would need to learn all over and get another set of diferent spare parts. I am happy with the honda's and have headed advice from here to fix the wet grass in the catcher problem..

What do you do Simmo do you fix your gear yourself?

At least your wise enough to buy a CHONDA at half the cost :wave-hi:

I don't fix anything... I haven't had anything go wrong that i've had to pay for repairs at this stage (a few bucks for parts). I even get the dealer to change my blades and he changes the oil at the same time... first set of blades where on the house!

I do clean the filter! :scared

It's all about building relationships!

That is why I asked this question... Most people stick to what they know and have mower deck for spares, bulk blades etc... and would need to learn over to change to another brand. As so many people have had bad customer service, i'm interested in their solution to fixing there machines.

I wouldn't mind learning to do repairs but will be time consuming for me at this stage... I also know my local dealer will sort it out if anything minor happens (anything besides a engine replacement lol).

I think the major problem is dealers know we only use them when something urgent is required... So why would they go out of there way? (silly business model and silly thinking i know).

I'm also considering selling the rover at 12 months (recoup half of my investment cost) and then buying a brand spanker! Probably will only cost me $200 - $300 after trade in :laughing:

In year 2 i can do the same... and trade it in and YEAR 3 i have a FREE mower! Actually, I plan to have a fleet of them by then :)

Simmo.

happymowin
17-05-2013, 07:55 AM
yeah simmo i get what youre saying

if you buy your consumables off the internet or from different places, and do most of your work yourself, then when something major happens or you havent got time, why WOULD the dealer drop everything to help YOU?

the guy i use knows i buy ALL my spares/consumables from him, he does all the work except basic maintenance (i change filters, blades, have started cleaning out the drive wheels/pawls/cogs as a maintenance thing) - but anything needs fixing, i give it to him, and generally its a one to two day turnaround (i usually get them to change the oil whenever its in the shop) - i then use the honda (*shudders*) for that couple days - and it ALWAYS reaffirms my belief that honda is cr@p - on EVERY MOW !! i just HATE using the honda !!

i only carry ONE mower around with me - about 2 times a year i have to drop the rover in for something to get done, and i just come home and load the honda in for the afternoon shift so to speak.

actually the old rover only let me down cos i tried to fix something simple myself, re used circlips and they dropped out, buggering up the inside of the drive wheels, and the pinion gears, and i think i wore the axle out by re using wheel clips too.

so if i had of just let them replace the $3 height adjuster, and did what i do best (mowing) maybe the 560 would still be in service

we'll see how long the 50 lasts - if i can make it go 18 months to 2 yrs, (maintaining the drive wheels/pawl/pinions better) i will be happy to just put her in the shed as the spare and buy another new rover (then i dont EVER have to use the dang honda cr@p again)


or for the reading impaired heres the short of it:
"hondas are cr@p bro
get a real mans mower cuzzy - ROVER"

Lawn Mowing Professionals
17-05-2013, 09:33 AM
well, i think that is a major part of the reason why honda dealers aren't willing to support us.

I'm not saying that is always the case, but like your example, if you try to fix something and it goes wrong... Are honda dealers then expected to drop everything and then repair it under there 2 year warranty?

There is nothing wrong with fixing stuff yourself if you are capable and can get the parts (and have the time to do so). People like Greenie do a great job and fixing problems inhouse works great for there business. I also see it wise to outsource stuff like this if you aren't prepared to learn everything about your mower... not to mention the trial and error to learn everything!

Everyone to there own... there is no right or wrong answers.

I am just trying to get an understanding of how many people are willing to give it a go? To me it looks like people will try as they aren't getting the back up support in the first instance and want there equipment working ASAP.

See, Rover is honest upfront - 90 days commercial warranty and 5 year residential. Honda is giving the same 2 year warranty for contractor and residential.... That doesn't make sense to me, and probably why most struggle to get warranty claims. A time deterant (ah, that will take 2 weeks) is there way of saying, if your serious then you will bite... if your shonky, you will back down and not push it (all my opinion of course).

As i said before, Honda are obviously giving small commissions for repairs, otherwise they would be all over it and smile everytime a contractor walks in.

At Rovers price point, it would be insane for them to give contractors 2 years warranty! Although, would be nice :)

Is there info available where you can learn to do these repairs for Honda and Rover machines?

Simmo.

Lawn Mowing Professionals
17-05-2013, 09:49 AM
I just checked the honda site and i have stated their wrong warranty details sorry.

It is 3 year commercial engine, 6 months commercial frame warranty and 4 year domestic warranty.

Dylan, i have 3 questions... (i'm sure your PR and marketing right?)

1. What does frame warranty include?

2. What does engine warrant include?


3. I have just been on the Honda site and there is no promotions on your promotion page... any reason why you aren't running a promo?

Simmo.

Honda_Official_PR
17-05-2013, 09:55 AM
So do I get this right, are you saying that Masters are selling mowers and claiming that they have Honda engines, whereas they really aren't ????

We are aware that Masters are selling these TPE mowers. The engines that are incorporated into the mower are put together by and large by Honda in China, where they are built for the Chinese marketplace and to Chinese manufacturing standards. I'm sure I don't need to tell you that, being a developing nation, these standards are lower than Australian standards, so they are not designed for Australian conditions.

Obviously, the fact that the engine serial number has been ground down should be of great concern to customers, especially a contractor who would rely on a TPE mower for their livelihood. It's the same as buying a car that has had it's Vehicle Identification Number ground down - I sure as hell wouldn't buy it, would you?

We have developed a website on this - www.hondaserialoffenders.com.au - but I would be happy to answer any more questions you might have about this awareness campaign.

Cheers,
Dylan

Honda_Official_PR
17-05-2013, 10:33 AM
I just checked the honda site and i have stated their wrong warranty details sorry.

It is 3 year commercial engine, 6 months commercial frame warranty and 4 year domestic warranty.

Dylan, i have 3 questions... (i'm sure your PR and marketing right?)

1. What does frame warranty include?

2. What does engine warrant include?


3. I have just been on the Honda site and there is no promotions on your promotion page... any reason why you aren't running a promo?

Simmo.

Hi Lawn Mowing Professionals. I have discussed your first two points with our National Sales Manager.

Basically, the frame warranty covers any part of the mower that isn't the actual engine.

If your mower - or any other Honda product - contains a manufacturer's fault, and it is brought to the attention of your local dealer within the warranty period, then that should be covered by warranty. If, however, it is deemed that the issue is as a result of the operator's abuse/misuse (whether deliberate or accidental), then any repairs would not be covered by warranty. So, for instance, if you run over a star picket or something like that, then that wouldn't be covered by Honda's warranty as the mower is (understandably) not built to handle that kind of usage.

Ultimately, what is covered by warranty, and what isn't covered by warranty, is at the discretion of your Honda dealer.

In regards to the lack of promotions, I agree with you that, since I started at Honda anyway (September 2012), there hasn't been any major promotions. So I put it to you, and your fellow contractors, what kind of promotions/competitions would you like to see offered by Honda? Please be reasonable with your suggestions, and another point to consider is that any promotions that we post on our website - and, by association, our Facebook and Twitter pages - would be visible to domestic users as well.

I look forward to seeing what you come back with, and speaking to our Marketing Coordinator and Sales Manager about the possibility of putting them into practice.

Cheers,
Dylan

SM MOWING
17-05-2013, 11:42 AM
ABN only prices.

Just like they have when you buy a car ie ford falcon $40,000, ABN price $36,000. etc

I don't think a domestic user is going to buy a 1000-1600 lawn mower to use once every blue moon.........

Honda_Official_PR
17-05-2013, 03:01 PM
Dylan do you run/admin the Honda Facebook page as well?

Hi PaulG,

Yes I keep a pretty watchful eye on our the Honda Lawn Lovers Facebook page - http://www.facebook.com/HondaLawnLovers - as well as the Twitter account - @Honda_HPE.

Cheers,
Dylan

cadase
17-05-2013, 03:04 PM
I don't want anything from Honda, it's their business, they can run it as they choose. But as a customer, i can choose which company i deal with. So obviously if Honda Australia want me as a customer they will design/sell a mower that is suitable for Australian contractors. If they cannot provide this, i'll try elsewhere, pretty straight forward to me.

Lawn Mowing Professionals
17-05-2013, 07:12 PM
ABN only prices.

Just like they have when you buy a car ie ford falcon $40,000, ABN price $36,000. etc

I don't think a domestic user is going to buy a 1000-1600 lawn mower to use once every blue moon.........

Yes, but Honda doesn't just want our business... It would have to be a joint promotion.

Target market, what target market... chuck em all in one basket! Or we could always not do a promotion at all :i dunno:

Dylan, I understand it isn't your fault... and i assume you are in a very difficult role (hands tied with so many ideas).

I'm not going to offer my suggestion of what promotions I think Honda should be doing... Although i have many ideas, i charge clients for this information through my marketing business. With the amount of staff at honda and marketing budget worldwide, surely you guys can come up with regular and worthwhile promotions... surely, we are at least worth that much???

In my opinion... promotions are very important marketing tool... when a company can't be bothered, it is usually a good indication that things aren't going well (either in management, performance, internal or external factors). Maybe instead of worrying about TPE mowers and the like, and producing a website of the "negatives" of the business... Maybe focus on your core business and i would think that is selling mowers :i dunno:

Fairdinkum... have you got any idea's to help Dylan for a promo? What would you like for a bonus?

BTW - thanks Dylan for clarifying the warranty on the frame warranty and engine warranty... I'm sure that will help many on here.

Simmo.

Lawn Mowing Professionals
17-05-2013, 07:19 PM
I don't want anything from Honda, it's their business, they can run it as they choose. But as a customer, i can choose which company i deal with. So obviously if Honda Australia want me as a customer they will design/sell a mower that is suitable for Australian contractors. If they cannot provide this, i'll try elsewhere, pretty straight forward to me.

Honest and upfront... Where's that like button when you need it ;)

Simmo.

South East Mowing
17-05-2013, 08:23 PM
"Quote Originally Posted by cadase View Post

I don't want anything from Honda, it's their business, they can run it as they choose. But as a customer, i can choose which company i deal with. So obviously if Honda Australia want me as a customer they will design/sell a mower that is suitable for Australian contractors. If they cannot provide this, i'll try elsewhere, pretty straight forward to me."


Honest and upfront... Where's that like button when you need it ;)

Simmo.

+1:bike:

Lawn Mowing Professionals
17-05-2013, 10:32 PM
Honda Enters European Robotic Lawn Mower Market with Launch of Honda Miimo!

Maybe this is why they see no need for a contractor marketshare?


August 20, 2012 - Honda is to enter the fast-growing European robotic lawn mower market with the introduction of Honda Miimo, its first commercial robotic product for domestic use.

Honda Miimo with ASIMO
Honda Miimo is the perfect solution for those wanting a beautiful lawn but would rather not or can't mow it themselves. The ultimate time and labor saving device, once installed it needs minimal human interaction when working to ensure a beautifully cut lawn, every day, for the length of the mowing season.

Honda Miimo operates a ‘continuous cutting' system, typically mowing just 2-3mm of grass at a time, several times each week. It cuts in a random pattern, meaning less stress on the grass, more healthy growth and reduced moss and weeds. Unlike a traditional lawn mower it doesn't need to collect cuttings, as the clippings it creates are so small that they are dispersed into the lawn root system, breaking down quickly to act as a natural fertiliser which improves the health and quality of the grass.

Honda Miimo navigates the garden through an intelligent combination of controls, timers and real-time sensory feedback. It works within a boundary wire, installed under the ground or in the grass around the perimeter of the garden. Honda Miimo detects the electronic signal in the wire and stays within it, ensuring high levels of safety and accuracy. Powered by a high performance lithium-ion battery, it is self-charging, constantly monitoring its battery level and returning to its docking station when it needs to recharge.

Uniquely, Honda Miimo features a fan, built-in to its blade holder, which creates airflow to effectively ‘suck' the grass towards the blades. This ensures a superior finish and a more consistent distribution of clippings back into the root system. Additionally, in a first in the market, it uses three highly durable blades, which bend rather than shatter on impact with hard objects, eliminating the danger of pieces of broken blade being left on the lawn. Cutting height is adjustable between 20mm and 60mm, to suit the conditions and time of year.

European sales of robotic mowers are growing rapidly. With the garden increasingly used as an ‘outdoor living room', people living busy lives and not wanting the work of maintaining a lawn; and an ageing population perhaps not able to do so, robotic mowers are a perfect solution. They also deliver excellent environmental benefits; not producing CO2, quieter than petrol models, and with no cuttings to dispose of.

Honda Miimo operates using one of three modes - ‘random', ‘directional' or ‘mixed', to suit the size and type of garden. Random mode sees it navigate the lawn without a fixed pattern; whilst in directional mode it moves back and forth in a more uniform fashion to ensure a faster cut. Mixed mode allows intervals of random and directional cutting.

Honda Miimo features three independent 360 degree ‘bump' sensors, which detect a solid contact between it and any obstacle. If a bump sensor is activated, it will stop, turn and move away from the point of contact in a different direction.

Honda Miimo can ascend slopes and when it encounters patches of thick or long grass it will automatically reduce wheel speed but maintain blade speed in order to deal with tough areas effectively.

Both safety and security are assured by two ‘lift' sensors which are triggered if Honda Miimo leaves the ground. On activation it shuts down completely, an alarm sounds, and it cannot be used until the owner inputs a unique PIN. In line with new regulations this means that it cannot be picked up whilst the blades are turning, and it is rendered useless in the event of theft.

At launch, Honda Miimo will be available in two models, 300 and 500, offering a maximum perimeter cut of 300m and 500m respectively. Honda Miimo 500 will mow up to a total lawn size of 3,000 square metres, around half the size of a typical football pitch, making it suitable for a wide variety of gardens.

The introduction of Honda Miimo heralds a whole new model for Honda Lawn & Garden Authorized Dealers. Uniquely in the market, it will be sold as a full service package. Upon purchase, the dealer installs the docking station, which acts as both the charging point and signal generator. A boundary wire is connected to the docking station, then routed around the perimeter of the garden to define the mowing area. Honda Miimo is then programmed to cut to a schedule convenient to the customer, via its inbuilt timer and calendar. Then, at the end of the season the Honda Authorized Dealer collects it for winter maintenance, and, in some countries, winter storage.

Honda has been working in the development of robotics since 1986, with the predecessors of ASIMO, the world's most advanced humanoid robot. Honda Miimo is the first commercial robotic product manufactured by the company for public use - representing its first step towards providing customers with robotic solutions to improve quality of life at home.

Honda Miimo will be manufactured by Honda France Manufacturing in Orlean. It will be available from Honda Authorized Dealers across Europe in early 2013.

ian
17-05-2013, 10:40 PM
wonder how you would go in regards to a claim for a broken gear box after the 6 month warranty personally i would think this would fall under the statutory warranty provisions of the ACCC as i should think it's reasonable expectation for a commercial quality product to last more than 6months

How long do consumers’ statutory rights apply? Statutory rights are not limited to a set time period. Instead, they apply for the amount of time that is reasonable to expect, given the cost and quality of the item. This means a consumer may be entitled to a remedy under their statutory rights after any manufacturer’s voluntary or extended warranty has expired. For example, it is reasonable to expect that an expensive television should not develop a serious fault after 13 months of normal use. In this case, the consumer could argue the item was not of merchantable quality and ask for it to be repaired, even if the manufacturer’s voluntary warranty had expired.

bb1
17-05-2013, 10:54 PM
wonder how you would go in regards to a claim for a broken gear box after the 6 month warranty personally i would think this would fall under the statutory warranty provisions of the ACCC as i should think it's reasonable expectation for a commercial quality product to last more than 6months

How long do consumers’ statutory rights apply? Statutory rights are not limited to a set time period. Instead, they apply for the amount of time that is reasonable to expect, given the cost and quality of the item. This means a consumer may be entitled to a remedy under their statutory rights after any manufacturer’s voluntary or extended warranty has expired. For example, it is reasonable to expect that an expensive television should not develop a serious fault after 13 months of normal use. In this case, the consumer could argue the item was not of merchantable quality and ask for it to be repaired, even if the manufacturer’s voluntary warranty had expired.

Honda must admit that 6 month on a comercial product is woefull. According to them they are built for the commercial market to meet contractors requirements, what other business only runs equipment for 6 months.

ASTRO
17-05-2013, 10:56 PM
wonder how you would go in regards to a claim for a broken gear box after the 6 month warranty personally i would think this would fall under the statutory warranty provisions of the ACCC as i should think it's reasonable expectation for a commercial quality product to last more than 6months

How long do consumers’ statutory rights apply? Statutory rights are not limited to a set time period. Instead, they apply for the amount of time that is reasonable to expect, given the cost and quality of the item. This means a consumer may be entitled to a remedy under their statutory rights after any manufacturer’s voluntary or extended warranty has expired. For example, it is reasonable to expect that an expensive television should not develop a serious fault after 13 months of normal use. In this case, the consumer could argue the item was not of merchantable quality and ask for it to be repaired, even if the manufacturer’s voluntary warranty had expired.

I agree ian,under those circumstances i would deem the gearbox 'not fit for purpose'.

Lawn Mowing Professionals
17-05-2013, 11:12 PM
One would assume the gearbox should have the same warranty as the engine...

Simmo.

Lawn Mowing Professionals
17-05-2013, 11:15 PM
wonder how you would go in regards to a claim for a broken gear box after the 6 month warranty personally i would think this would fall under the statutory warranty provisions of the ACCC as i should think it's reasonable expectation for a commercial quality product to last more than 6months

How long do consumers’ statutory rights apply? Statutory rights are not limited to a set time period. Instead, they apply for the amount of time that is reasonable to expect, given the cost and quality of the item. This means a consumer may be entitled to a remedy under their statutory rights after any manufacturer’s voluntary or extended warranty has expired. For example, it is reasonable to expect that an expensive television should not develop a serious fault after 13 months of normal use. In this case, the consumer could argue the item was not of merchantable quality and ask for it to be repaired, even if the manufacturer’s voluntary warranty had expired.

Ian, what don't you understand...


Ultimately, what is covered by warranty, and what isn't covered by warranty, is at the discretion of your Honda dealer.

:laughing:

Simmo.

ian
17-05-2013, 11:18 PM
One would assume the gearbox should have the same warranty as the engine...

Simmo.

:laughing::laughing::laughing:
this is not part of the engine so only gets the 6month warranty
also don't forget to lodge a warranty claim they may ask for proof of services having been done

ian
17-05-2013, 11:21 PM
Ultimately, what is covered by warranty, and what isn't covered by warranty, is at the discretion of your Honda dealer.


Ian, what don't you understand...



:laughing:

Simmo.

which is my point Honda can say this but it's really at the discretion of the Accc and their enforcement of your statutory rights

ASTRO
17-05-2013, 11:22 PM
:laughing::laughing::laughing:
this is not part of the engine so only gets the 6month warranty
also don't forget to lodge a warranty claim they may ask for proof of services having been done

Better get a lawyer son makes sure its a real good one!

courty
17-05-2013, 11:23 PM
Operator error is the get out of jail free card for all manufacturers

Lawn Mowing Professionals
17-05-2013, 11:30 PM
which is my point Honda can say this but it's really at the discretion of the Accc and their enforcement of your statutory rights

I agree with you Ian... but it's out of Honda's jurisdiction and in the hands of the dealer networks. :laughing:

:wave-hi:

I'll stick with a Rover...less confusing :scared

Simmo.

danz
18-05-2013, 10:19 AM
I own three different mowers, Bushranger, Honda, and a Rover. The Honda 216 SP (before the blade brake bull****) only gets a run in summer when I am knocking tops off daisies. I will admit I have found the Honda is a very reliable mower and does do a very neat job but just can't go anywhere near grass with moisture or any length. All I want of Honda is to design a mower that will compare to the Bushranger 530sp that has/had the kwaka engine. I'd pay $1500 any day off the week If Honda mowers got through wet grass like the Bushranger does without a hiccup. If Honda can design a simple light yet robust mower that does not clog up after every 2 metres, then I feel it would be on to a winner. People don't mind laying down a bit of Johnny CASH if they get what they pay for! Which is not the case in recent years. Arfa Brayne should be employed to over see things.... Cheers to Dylan for at least coming onto the site and having a go!

happymowin
18-05-2013, 05:30 PM
theyre again making bushrangers as bushrangers in the nz plant since MTD stopped licensing them.

so theres another mower that will suck sales from honda.


i nearly bought one last time, but went rover cos i knoew they were good mowers, and good value for money.

troppo
18-05-2013, 06:30 PM
Who said bushranger - like the real deal!!!! I have a bushranger whippy that was given to me. Wouldn't have a clue how much work it has done, but I love it. Heaps of grunt with 2.7 and will demolish any overgrown edges and I cut on the vertical as much as possible. Developed a funny noise in the head so I pulled it apart and found, as I thought, a dodgy open bearing. Put all new sealed bearings ($22.00) in it and some new lithium grease. I just love the feel of it - so balanced and smooth. Way smoother than my old echo. Would be real interested in any bushranger product based on this whippy.

Redeye
18-05-2013, 08:51 PM
be interesting to see if they use steelfort or masport bases

Arfa Brayne
20-09-2013, 08:31 PM
I own three different mowers, Bushranger, Honda, and a Rover. The Honda 216 SP (before the blade brake bull****) only gets a run in summer when I am knocking tops off daisies. I will admit I have found the Honda is a very reliable mower and does do a very neat job but just can't go anywhere near grass with moisture or any length. All I want of Honda is to design a mower that will compare to the Bushranger 530sp that has/had the kwaka engine. I'd pay $1500 any day off the week If Honda mowers got through wet grass like the Bushranger does without a hiccup. If Honda can design a simple light yet robust mower that does not clog up after every 2 metres, then I feel it would be on to a winner. People don't mind laying down a bit of Johnny CASH if they get what they pay for! Which is not the case in recent years. Arfa Brayne should be employed to over see things.... Cheers to Dylan for at least coming onto the site and having a go!

Cheers Danz !!
You've described exactly what all of us have been searching for, for ages.

Thanks for the vote of approval !!
I've done my time in corporate business many (many many) years ago. It was a buzz, and I made a lot of money for arrogant, stupid, fat, arseholes who had bugger all grasp of reality and gratitude.
I'm now in my 50's, successful, good wife, good kids, = happy life. Can you imagine what it would be like to give up working 3-4 days a week in the sunshine and fresh air - to go back to an office full of textbook blind, self absorbed twitts , working too many hours while achieving nothing meaningful ??

Cut the grass, chat with the old folk, take the cash, buy a slab, go for a sail or surf. - too perfect !

holdenhead
22-09-2013, 11:39 PM
be interesting to see if they use steelfort or masport bases

Hi, As far as I'm aware they are steelfort bases. MTD stole them for a bit but have let others use the base again. MTD uses that base on the yardman 509x. Kohler powered SP. Exactly the old bushranger. For those who had them they know how good they are. When I brought my bushranger 5-6? yrs ago I paid $1200. These yardmans last time i checked were around $700. Had mine for 2 years+ and still going great guns. The best value mower by far. You can go buy the bushranger for $1100+ or the Victa turf master (same mower) $1400+ or the yardman for around $700. All are the same except the engines.

Cheers Rick

imoww
16-10-2014, 05:11 PM
Has anyone seen these Hondas?
Are they worth my while to buy one now?
.http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/genuine-USA-made-honda-self-propelled-lawn-mower-not-just-honda-powered-/301355245822?pt=AU_Lawnmowers&hash=item462a2c20fe

imoww
16-10-2014, 06:37 PM
didnt get it. Its a OHC.
Domestic

imoww
20-10-2014, 07:53 PM
I was trying to trick up the new Honda's revs, (as in Arfa's video) But someone told me to turn the screw inside this hole (in the pic) to increase the revs?
Des any one know?7929

Arfa Brayne
20-10-2014, 10:37 PM
Don't ever remember making a video bud.
The screws you are twisting are only idle adjustment
To increase the revs you have to back off the throttle limiter stop - it's a really long screw with a lock nut that stops how far the throttle spring tensioner arm moves.

It goes like this
the hand control lever (black lever on the handles) moves the throttle cable
The throttle cable moves the throttle spring tensioner arm
The throttle spring tensioner arm pulls a spring that connects to the governor arm (that comes out the side of the crankcase) - stay with me here
The governor arm moves a linkage (with a spring around it that reduces "slop") and the linkage moves the throttle butterfly in the carby, which makes the engine rev.

If you look at the mower while you read this it will make better sense.
That throttle spring tensioner arm also works the link to the choke, but if you move the hand control slowly while you watch what happens you will understand.
You'll see that there is the long screw with the locknut that stops the throttle spring tensioner arm from moving past a certain point.
If you back the long screw adjustment off about 3mm, the arm moves more, which tensions the spring more, which pulls the governor arm harder and makes the engine rev more.
Don't mess with anything else or you will get a mower that dies under load, won't idle, or just revs it's head off.

I know pictures would be better but I'm bloody crook at the moment.

imoww
21-10-2014, 05:21 AM
Hey bud. I know what your saying.
I thought you did some videos on YouTube...
Thanks heaps bud

Don't ever remember making a video bud.
The screws you are twisting are only idle adjustment
To increase the revs you have to back off the throttle limiter stop - it's a really long screw with a lock nut that stops how far the throttle spring tensioner arm moves.

It goes like this
the hand control lever (black lever on the handles) moves the throttle cable
The throttle cable moves the throttle spring tensioner arm
The throttle spring tensioner arm pulls a spring that connects to the governor arm (that comes out the side of the crankcase) - stay with me here
The governor arm moves a linkage (with a spring around it that reduces "slop") and the linkage moves the throttle butterfly in the carby, which makes the engine rev.

If you look at the mower while you read this it will make better sense.
That throttle spring tensioner arm also works the link to the choke, but if you move the hand control slowly while you watch what happens you will understand.
You'll see that there is the long screw with the locknut that stops the throttle spring tensioner arm from moving past a certain point.
If you back the long screw adjustment off about 3mm, the arm moves more, which tensions the spring more, which pulls the governor arm harder and makes the engine rev more.
Don't mess with anything else or you will get a mower that dies under load, won't idle, or just revs it's head off.

I know pictures would be better but I'm bloody crook at the moment.

imoww
21-10-2014, 05:43 AM
Ive done it...
Thanks bud. just couldnt remember how it was done..
i thought these videos were from you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81DIgZHkDb8

Arfa Brayne
22-10-2014, 02:11 PM
Ive done it...
Thanks bud. just couldnt remember how it was done..
i thought these videos were from you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81DIgZHkDb8

I waffle on - but not that much i thought.
Wish I could do video's like that though - skill.