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Cranbourne Lawnmowing
31-05-2013, 05:30 PM
I did see something about this not that long ago but couldn't find it. Anyway I just bought a 1 litre bottle of this today. A stronger dose for couch at 80ml per 15 litres is a lot less than the 360 so 22 bucks for the bottle seems pretty good to me.

Has anyone else used this stuff and what did you think of the results?

ian
31-05-2013, 05:49 PM
i pay about $5.00 p/l for 360 so add 1/4 for the same mix strenght as 450 and i pay the equivalent of about $6.25 p/l

BSD
31-05-2013, 09:23 PM
Ok many chemicals have lower active constituant, some higher, the pre mixed ones are a rip off but folk buy them, ...the rule is "read the lable, heed the lable", no point in overdosing weeds as it means nothing, usually a higher concentrate of active ingredient means more bang for your buck!

BTW, herbicide, aint pesticide.

ian
31-05-2013, 10:39 PM
BTW, herbicide, aint pesticide.

i bet if you were an ant and someone dropped you in a bottle full of herbicide your dependents would disagree with that statement :laughing:
also if you spray roses with glyphosate you will get rid of most of the insect pests :)

Lawn Mowing Professionals
31-05-2013, 11:24 PM
i bet if you were an ant and someone dropped you in a bottle full of herbicide your dependents would disagree with that statement :laughing:
also if you spray roses with glyphosate you will get rid of most of the insect pests :)

:laughing:

Simmo.

BSD
01-06-2013, 08:40 AM
Like it, lol...:laughing:
i bet if you were an ant and someone dropped you in a bottle full of herbicide your dependents would disagree with that statement :laughing:
also if you spray roses with glyphosate you will get rid of most of the insect pests :)

GardeningSolutions
01-06-2013, 09:00 AM
I did see something about this not that long ago but couldn't find it. Anyway I just bought a 1 litre bottle of this today. A stronger dose for couch at 80ml per 15 litres is a lot less than the 360 so 22 bucks for the bottle seems pretty good to me.

Has anyone else used this stuff and what did you think of the results?
I use a bit of spray so I buy 20lt drums of firebolt 540 (equivelent of Roundup Powermax 540) at $95 a drum. Thats $4.75lt, stretches twice as far, has a surffactant in it, and is rainfast in 30minutes. Even if you dont use a lot of spray get another lawnie to go halves in a drum. I'll still spray even if its drizzling. Accidently sprayed the wrong plant a few years back, tried to wash it off, but it bloody died on me.

Woodchip
01-06-2013, 09:48 AM
GardeningSolutions, where did you get it, on a quick google search it sounds good!, Do you need any other additional PPE safety measures, other than gloves & maybe mask?

BSD are you saying you cant increase 360g/l to the equivilant of 450g/l by adding more to the same amount of water, im a bit slow on the uptake??
cheers

ian
01-06-2013, 10:23 AM
GardeningSolutions, where did you get it, on a quick google search it sounds good!, Do you need any other additional PPE safety measures, other than gloves & maybe mask?

BSD are you saying you cant increase 360g/l to the equivilant of 450g/l by adding more to the same amount of water, im a bit slow on the uptake??
cheers

i think he's saying that when you mix it with water the rate of Glyphosate to water is the same,80ml of 450g/l mixed with 10litres of water is the same as adding 100ml 360 g/l with 10 litres so if you can kill the plant with a 100ml of 360 mix there is no point in using 100ml of 450 you're just wasting poison

GardeningSolutions
01-06-2013, 11:16 AM
GardeningSolutions, where did you get it, on a quick google search it sounds good!, Do you need any other additional PPE safety measures, other than gloves & maybe mask?

BSD are you saying you cant increase 360g/l to the equivilant of 450g/l by adding more to the same amount of water, im a bit slow on the uptake??
cheers

I get it from the local agriculture supplies store FPAG in SA. Try Landmark, I also use them or give elders a go. Never buy from hardware stores.

RSM-Gazza
01-06-2013, 09:07 PM
Farmoz Wipeout 450 ( Glyphosate 450 - Roundup CT ) 20ltres at $75

seliment
03-06-2013, 10:12 PM
Farmoz Wipeout 450 ( Glyphosate 450 - Roundup CT ) 20ltres at $75

Just read the label carefully when using Roundup CT (CT = Chemical Tillage = no plow farming).
As it is often mixed with other Ag chemicals in cropping situations, some of these formulations no not have surfactants/adjuvants etc in the formulation and they MAY need to be added extra to get good results.
ALWAYS read the label -- never know what you might learn.

Btw .. We use the stuff in qty for broadacre cropping .. ..

Joe

GardeningSolutions
17-06-2013, 12:49 PM
Has anyone had success in poisoning Date Palm seedlings? I used roundup 540 and it does'nt seem to effect them. Any ideas?

BSD
17-06-2013, 01:10 PM
Maybe mix it the rate for woody plants, like blackberry, use a good surfactant, but i reckon your already doing this.

PaulG
17-06-2013, 02:05 PM
Has anyone had success in poisoning Date Palm seedlings? I used roundup 540 and it does'nt seem to effect them. Any ideas?

How many seedlings are you dealing with? I have a constant battle with Cocos Palm seedlings but I find it easy to hand-pull them if they're small enough or chip them with a hoe.

Re herbicides; I haven't used it but I would suggest something like Diquat would be needed as it is a contact herbicide, a desiccant which acts at a cellular level to destroy the foliage which will in effect kill the seedlings as palm seedlings only have the one growing point.

Horticultural vinegar also does a similar job.

GardeningSolutions
17-06-2013, 05:26 PM
Mate. There's hundred's of them in a garden bed. Pulled them last time but more came back. I'll look into Diquat. Was looking for one chemical rather than mixing roundup, dicamba & tree killer, which I sometimes use on other problem weeds. Also the seedlings are coming up around wanted plants so I don't want to nuke everything in the process. Cheers GS.

PaulG
17-06-2013, 06:05 PM
Bummer. The seeds/fruits are everywhere obviously. Diquat is pretty strong stuff. All precautions to be taken when spraying. In that situation where there's plenty of other things in the garden a shield on the spray nozzle would help against spray drift.

GardeningSolutions
17-06-2013, 08:09 PM
I just looked up Diquat and it's highly toxic. I might look for a safer alternative as the area to be sprayed is on the main street of the town.

Cranbourne Lawnmowing
17-06-2013, 08:24 PM
try adding a squirt of dishwashing liquid to the glypho. Works on most glossy leaved plants and weeds from my experience.

AJD Mowing
17-06-2013, 08:38 PM
Yes that works Cranbourne it also helps it stick to the plant. When I was with VIP we used a product called Driftex I dont know if its still around

ASTRO
17-06-2013, 08:42 PM
Hey GS, have used 10% garlon 4 ultra concentrate w/w + pulse on date palm seedlings very effective control when spayed in centre of plants.
Diquat is not suitable for this application.
Cheers astro.

seliment
17-06-2013, 09:52 PM
Hey GS, have used 10% garlon 4 ultra concentrate w/w + pulse .....

Be very careful with drift (including vapour drift) from Garlon as it is an ester formulation.
The legislation also requires that you hold an ACUP (Chemcert) to legally use Garlon.

As Garlon is already in an water miscible organic solvent/formulation, I very much doubt that Pulse (adjuvant - penetrant) is doing anything much very useful. Probably almost waste of it.

Glyphosate + Pulse is a completely different matter as it is in a water based formulation and the Pulse will certainly aid the glyphosate in penetration of the waxy or water repellent cuticle on the leaves of the plant.

Joe

BSD
17-06-2013, 10:31 PM
But when you look at the question, maybe the seed pods should be cut down before they open, but for now the safest way is to dig up the seedlings, nuts, roots and all, then get on top by insisting the seed pods get cut down before the things drop all over the place, thats how i do it at my own place, i hate coco palms, the council want 77 bucks to see if i'm allowed to cut the stupid thing down, i'll end up just hacking it away slowly.

GardeningSolutions
18-06-2013, 08:34 AM
But when you look at the question, maybe the seed pods should be cut down before they open, but for now the safest way is to dig up the seedlings, nuts, roots and all, then get on top by insisting the seed pods get cut down before the things drop all over the place, thats how i do it at my own place, i hate coco palms, the council want 77 bucks to see if i'm allowed to cut the stupid thing down, i'll end up just hacking it away slowly.

At this site there's no palm tree's & initially I thought the clients landscaper had brought in contaminated mulch. Later found out there used to be palm's there. I have to go the cost effective way here & use chemicals. Since there's hundreds of these seedlings hand weeding will take to long.
I'm going to use Garlon & pick a good day to do it.

Thanks for the help eveyone
Cheers GS

seliment
18-06-2013, 11:35 AM
I'm going to use Garlon & pick a good day to do it.

Cheers GS

Have you looked into or considered using 'wick wiping' technology (or even say a paint roller) to apply the chemical (to the leaves).
Maybe this sort of methodology might be a bit more targeted than spraying and reduce risk of off-target damage.

Also Garlon can be mixed with diesel (see label) and that is a VERY powerful mix which should ideally be ONLY applied to target plants (ie don't spray it) with for example, a wiping applicator (eg rope wick). The diesel causes the Garlon to be absorbed instantly or penetrate through bark.

Joe.

PaulG
18-06-2013, 11:47 AM
Garlon does not appear to be indicated for palm seedlings either. If it were to be used a wiping or painting technique would be best as Sel has described. Remember even on a still day you can get a cloud of product building around yourself as there's no breeze to blow it away.

seliment
18-06-2013, 01:20 PM
This info sheet (although it is written for the USA - California) might provide some useful insight / guidance on palm seedling control as they are considered an 'invasive species / pest plant' there.

http://wric.ucdavis.edu/information/crop/natural areas/wr_P/Phoenix-Washingtonia.pdf


Re Method / mode of application of chemical .....
If a (small in volume) dose of chemical is being applied to the crown of the plant, then a measured applicator like a Velpar gun (basically it's a sheep drench gun with back-pack for the chemical which can dose out a calibrated amount eg 5, 10 mls etc on each squeeze) which is used in weed tree drill-fill operations might be worth considering.




Joe

Mick
18-06-2013, 05:33 PM
Diquat is pretty heavy stuff. I use it on my dam to treat Salvinia. Dont use it! It is used extensively in the uSA a as part of weed programs etc. Good for killing Oxalis or what ever its called apparently.
Its a defoliant (Agent Orange) that kills the leaf but not necessarily the plant/roots. Dont use it!

Try a teaspoon of metsulphron (sp) in a stronger batch of RU. Add some wetting agent as well. May need repeat apps!

PaulG
18-06-2013, 05:35 PM
Cheers Joe. I've been searching and couldn't find anything like that.

The Weeds Australia website gives them a mention but doesn't mention control.

Here's a handy website if people wish to cross reference weeds, pests and sprays too.
http://www.herbiguide.com.au/Home.aspx

PaulG
18-06-2013, 05:38 PM
Diquat is in the same league as Paraquat which can be fatal if ingested, and has recently been in one case in Queensland. I figured it would work on the palm seedlings as once the single growing point (leaf-shoot) is destroyed the seedling will not continue to grow.

seliment
18-06-2013, 05:56 PM
Diquat is in the same league as Paraquat which can be fatal if ingested, and has recently been in one case in Queensland. ....

Paraquat (one of the things in Sprayseed) is NASTY stuff.
I think it is a S7 poison.
Sufficient to say in broadacre use tractor is to have a full pressurized cab with full filtration including charcoal filters.
I think any personal application is to be avoided unless with fully envlosed chemical protective suit and breathing gear.
Diquat is a little better .... But it kills top growth by desiccant action so doubt it will fix palms which appear to be pretty resilient plant. Think a chemical which goes through whole plant system is required.

Joe

Mick
18-06-2013, 06:28 PM
I was probably a little off with the Agent Orange thing but the principles were the same, a defoliant! Ive heard of people putting a few mill into a RU mix to speed things up. Problem is, the Diquat can kill the leaf before the RU can take.

glassngrass
19-06-2013, 07:59 AM
While Roundup has the effect of killing vegetation (where the leaves die and drop off), it is not a defoliant.

How does the herbicide Roundup work? (http://home.howstuffworks.com/question357.htm)

Mick
19-06-2013, 08:23 AM
If thats directed at me, I didnt say it was! I said diquat is.

DavidS
19-06-2013, 11:29 AM
Instead of using Diquat or Paraquat use this instead, http://www.herbiguide.com.au/labels/oxy24_54271-0509.pdf
I use it all the time with woody weeds and other hard to kill weeds. If I am spraying out a over grown garden I use this 10ml mixed with 80ml of Glypho in a 5 litre unit, has a great result. Then if you really want to kill woody weeds use Garzon, but be warned very expensive, about $800 for 20 litres.

seliment
19-06-2013, 12:20 PM
How does the herbicide Roundup work?[/URL]

It's a group M mode of action.
Well it basically blocks an enzyme in plants known as EPSP
This enzyme is utilized in the production pathway (ie biochemistry) of certain amino acids which are critical to their life.

To quote from wikipedia (for those who want the full detail)
"The enzyme participates in biosynthesis of the aromatic amino acids phenylalanine, tyrosine and tryptophan. The enzyme is a target for herbicides as these amino acids are only synthesized in plants and microorganisms. Glyphosate acts as a competitive inhibitor for phosphoenolpyruvate and is used as a broad-spectrum systemic herbicide."

Joe

seliment
19-06-2013, 02:24 PM
For those who are I interested ..

How Herbicides Work i.e. kill plants

Here is a quick and easy to read presentation (basically the PowerPoint type slides from a lecture) on how the various herbicide types achieve their result.

http://pinellas.ifas.ufl.edu/blog_commercial_connection/aquatics_2009/how herbicides work.pdf

Joe

GardeningSolutions
19-06-2013, 05:17 PM
Instead of using Diquat or Paraquat use this instead, http://www.herbiguide.com.au/labels/oxy24_54271-0509.pdf
I use it all the time with woody weeds and other hard to kill weeds. If I am spraying out a over grown garden I use this 10ml mixed with 80ml of Glypho in a 5 litre unit, has a great result. Then if you really want to kill woody weeds use Garzon, but be warned very expensive, about $800 for 20 litres.

I just purchased 5Lt of GARLON 600 (600g/L) for $131. I thought that was not bad as the 250ml tin of Tree Killer that I have been using (same chemical TRICLOPYR ) goes for $16 and is only 50g/L. That would be $320 for the equivalent quantity and the GARLON is 12 times stronger. Will be super careful using it.

ASTRO
19-06-2013, 08:19 PM
Hey GS, when i use garlon i wear of a full protective suit + commercial quality cartrige respirator.
Apply in ideal conditions and ensure the chemical is applied directly into the centre of the palm.
I fit a cylindrical cover over the spray nozzle to prevent over spray.

PaulG
20-06-2013, 12:22 AM
Really thinking more and more about the use of glyphosate and other chemicals. In recent months there has been even more studies published about it's affects on our endocrine system.

http://www.realfarmacy.com/cancer-infertility-parkinsons-and-death-the-hidden-costs-of-round-up/

Seriously going to check out the horticultural vinegar I mentioned on here a few weeks ago.

GardeningSolutions
20-06-2013, 07:24 AM
Hey GS, when i use garlon i wear of a full protective suit + commercial quality cartrige respirator.
Apply in ideal conditions and ensure the chemical is applied directly into the centre of the palm.
I fit a cylindrical cover over the spray nozzle to prevent over spray.

Cheers Astro. I have all the gear, done the chem cert courses and I,m familiar with S6 chemicals. Thanks for the heads up. I only use them sparingly as a lot of times the sites are domestic.

GardeningSolutions
25-07-2013, 05:50 PM
At this site there's no palm tree's & initially I thought the clients landscaper had brought in contaminated mulch. Later found out there used to be palm's there. I have to go the cost effective way here & use chemicals. Since there's hundreds of these seedlings hand weeding will take to long.
I'm going to use Garlon & pick a good day to do it.

Thanks for the help eveyone
Cheers GS

Sprayed the Date palm seedlings 4 weeks ago with Garlon 600 and while it has slowed them down, I'm not convinced that there will be more there once the weather warms up. There's got to be a product more successful surely.

DavidS
26-07-2013, 07:56 AM
Hi GS, In reality you really need to spray the palm tree seedling later in the year. September October, when they are growing more. Did you add a wetting agent plus and surface spreader. I use Canola Oil and dishwashing liquid.

GardeningSolutions
26-07-2013, 09:00 AM
I used a proper wetter and conditions aren't ideal, ie cold, but had to be doing something asap as it is a new commercial client. I used to use treekiller plus kamba plus roundup. would kill anything. that mix gets pricey so was looking for a single chem to do the job cheaper.

PaulG
26-07-2013, 11:45 PM
How many leaves do the palm-seedlings have? If they still have just their first single shoot from the seed I still think horticultural vinegar would be worth a shot to burn-off the leaf as once that first leaf is dead they won't reshoot. Even the hort. vinegar has to be sprayed under the right conditions though, just like everything else. I did end up ordering a small bottle of it but haven't been out the the local supplier to pick it up yet. When I do I'll try it on some of the Cocos palm seedlings here to see how it goes.

GardeningSolutions
27-07-2013, 09:01 AM
They have only one leaf at the moment. What is popping up now I hand picked. Probably 50 of them. Let us know how the vinegar works as I'd like to eradicate the pests.

seliment
27-07-2013, 11:57 AM
They have only one leaf at the moment...... ... I'd like to eradicate the pests.

From what I have read elsewhere written by ppl with environmental expertise ....
The Cocos palm (aka Queen palm) which apparently is native to Brazil is an invasive environmental weed 'first class' in many places.
As you have already discovered, they seed profusely, the fruits are carried by birds etc and can be spread through mulching of any palm debris which is carrying 'fruit'.
Keep up the good work in their destruction :)

They also say that if you damage the 'heart' (ie growing crown) of seedlings etc, they are kaput as they do not have other dormant buds to reshoot from.
On that basis 'horticultural vinegar' may well do the job.

A question.
Vinegar contains acetic acid (5% +/-) ....
So, what is 'horticultural vinegar'? ... Vinegar 'not for human consumption'. ... like 'stock vinegar'
or is it industrial/technical grade acetic acid. (eg glacial arctic acid)?

Joe

PaulG
27-07-2013, 12:38 PM
Joe, this is the stuff I'm getting.


http://www.theolivecentre.com/Olive-Equipment/Weed-Control/EA-Burn-Off

glassngrass
27-07-2013, 04:59 PM
Glyohosate - assuming same price as vinegar for 20L drum of glyphosate 360 - the same half-full knapsack would, at 10 mL per liter, need 80 mL - a cost of 70 cents

20Ltrs of the vinegar is $159.50 plus GST

To half fill a 16 Ltr knapsack (8 litres) would need 2 litres of that chemical.
That's $17.55


$17.55, or 70 cents..... Hmmmmmm.....- certainly not a replacement for Roundup in most applications.

GardeningSolutions
28-07-2013, 07:08 PM
I use to go the organic way but it's either expensive or labour intensive. I run a business and guarantee my work. In this age of McDonalds mentality of I want it now you need to have a product that works immediately and is affordable. So I've ended up using chemicals. You don't want to go back to a job for free because of no result & the customer generally doesn't want to pay again for something they think they've already paid for. That's why I'm looking for a single chemical. Still interested in hearing how the vinegar effects the Date Palms.

ASTRO
28-07-2013, 10:00 PM
I use to go the organic way but it's either expensive or labour intensive. I run a business and guarantee my work. In this age of McDonalds mentality of I want it now you need to have a product that works immediately and is affordable. So I've ended up using chemicals. You don't want to go back to a job for free because of no result & the customer generally doesn't want to pay again for something they think they've already paid for. That's why I'm looking for a single chemical. Still interested in hearing how the vinegar effects the Date Palms.

GS. We used a propane gas burner on a trolley to maintain weed control along the gravel paths at heynes.
Given the winter period when chemical control is least effective and reduced fire risk.
Would be useful in small areas around the base of palms with 100% kill rate on young seedlings.
Just a thought.
Cheers astro.