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Easycareacres
14-06-2004, 03:16 PM
Just interested if anyone has caused broken windows, damaged buildings etc this year.
I had a stone go through a double slider factory tint door and cost me $300.00. Just as well I had insurance as owner wouldnt use her household insurance.

Indyanswer
14-06-2004, 03:33 PM
I dont cover windows I let my customers know straight way .tHEN I HAVE NO PROBLEMS

patch
14-06-2004, 03:52 PM
I have broken 3 windows in my own car this year :mad: and there is 6 months to go.
As for customers I take all Care but no responsibility.
As for cars going past I just try a Little stunt, try asking them if they can prove the stone came from my machine.

Regards PATCH

Tonyr
14-06-2004, 04:22 PM
I'm obviously seeing this all wrong...

I thought that is what we pay insurance cover for?

Stones etc is our biggest risk in this industry against property and person, followed by damage done by machine itself to property or person....

I'm not critisising or judging you guys at all please understand, I am just a little shoced to hear professional lawn mowing contractors say they aren't paying for broken windows that they caused...

Isn't this what sets professionals apart from the fly by nighter types who mow cheap, not insured, etc? Americans call them Scrubs...


I do realise there are those in the community who will see a mower working near a road and will instantly decide their already cracked windscreen needs replacing and you are going to pay, unless you can prove you didn't do the damage....I understand that, but...
In that circumstance I thought we really had no choice if we couldn't prove our mower didn't do it.

But as far as mowing someones property and throwing debris through a window, I thought that was the whole idea why I have insurance cover?

So, guess I can cancel my 10mil cover now, saves me about $900 a year, tell clients to prove I did damage, unless they have it on tape I should be right, thanks guys, saved me a few bucks this coming financial year :)


Russell: I'm the odd one out...I believe if I break something I pay for it's repair because I think that is the different between being professional and ameteur. It's the right thing to do guys...isn't it?

If I know I didn't break what I've been accused of breaking then obviously I'm going to do what I can to get out of it.

Like I said, I think I have misunderstood your posts, forgive me if I'm off track.

patch
14-06-2004, 04:59 PM
I have been involved in the mowing industry for many years in sale ,servicing and design and now in mowing so how dare you indicate that I am a fly by nighter types who mow cheap, not insured, etc.
Regardes PATCH

Easycareacres
14-06-2004, 05:12 PM
yeah I have $10 mil insurance and that big window was first time I had to use it so far so feel peace of mind I have it.
Knowing my workers are on whippersnippers i feel more relaxed with insurance. Wow imagine been sued.

Ebony
14-06-2004, 05:16 PM
OK, Firstly, if a mower man, or anyone else for that matter broke my window by accident I would not expect them to pay for it, especially when it is a contractor mowing my residential $25.00 every three week lawn.

You have $10 Million insurance cover for the broken windows Tony? I think you might be slightly over compensating if that is the case.

Generally insurance is to ensure you Tony, we can use it for a broken window after the excess might be a $50.00 claim but then insurance is there to give you the security that if that stone does flick up and hit a person instead of a window you do not lose your house and evrything you own. That is what insurance is for.

Ebony

Easycareacres
14-06-2004, 05:16 PM
Patch, you said you dont take responsibility to your customers, wow I know I couldn't work that way as hate thought of public or customers sueing me. We seem to foolow USA with sueing and people love making these claim lol. :russ:

Indyanswer
14-06-2004, 05:22 PM
Heres A tip ,one person runs his business one way ,the other runs his business another way, its nobodies business how you run yours.Thats competition .The reason people have public liability is not not just for windows its to protect some one elses well being.
Now A FINE EXAMPLE YOU CUT A WOMANS LAWN FOR TWENTY DOLLARS HER WINDOW BREAKS IT COSTS YOU 800.00 SHE DOES NOT HAVE INSURANCE WHOS FAULT IS IT . ITS CALLED AN ACCIDENT THE OBJECT SHOULDNT BE THERE, THE WORK AREA IS SUPPOSED TO BE SAFE .Should that person who you are working for protect you or should you the one that works for her protect her .If it rains it pours :Rain:

Easycareacres
14-06-2004, 05:31 PM
well say that lady got glass imbedded into her eye, and follows up sueing not matter cost of window but further things can come from stones flying its called peace of mind. If mowing domestics they can be the worst as small kids toys cars etc are like bullets.

Tonyr
14-06-2004, 05:33 PM
Re Read my post!

I never accused you of anything, I asked a lot of questions, hense (?)'s

Re "fly by nighter types who mow cheap, not insured..."


I was trying make a generalisation, those who undercut, mow cheap, no insurance etc...please tell me you understand this huge sector in the industry!

My point is these types are usually uninsured run defective gear etc that's why they can charge less, I DID NOT SAY YOU OR ANYONE HERE! I was trying to make points, not start anything!

Fact is as far as I'm concerned is, if you are professionally mowing you should be insured to cover damage you may do, where the hell do you think it is right to break other peoples property and not pay repair? That's vandalism, unlawful property damage...

Well my friend, I really hope the next time you hire a service company to do work on your property they break something and say to you, " tuff mate!" Then come back here and tell us how you feel that is OK.

You may be some veteran in this industry, I am happy to set my self aside of guys that don't respect other people's property cause I do, I'm no veteran but I have morals and honesty!

Yeah, you can keep fighting this out as much as you like, to ME, guys who don't have insurance or don't repair damage they did are certainly in a different part of the industry to me which I'm glad.

I want to know how you feel when someone damages your car or property and says tuff! I really wanna know!

I should of learn't in that other thread not to reply to you, you puzzle me :)

Ebony
14-06-2004, 05:35 PM
If that is the case then you are in bigger trouble then ever Easycare, if you paid to have her window fixed you have admitted to being responsible which leaves you wide open to be sued! Or this is how I would see it.

The glass in the eye case though is a perfect example of why you need insurance, such a claim could ruin you, your life, your family, take everything you've got and leave you on teh street.

Easycareacres
14-06-2004, 05:44 PM
yes i did admit i broke window i was only workman working on propery and see was stone Yes i admit im honest.

Indyanswer
14-06-2004, 05:45 PM
Now you see gentlemen the reason we have insurance is for the insurance company to argue the point with the person making the claim the insurance company will do one of two things pay the claim or dispute the claim . They are the ones that will pay the bill on your behalf or defend you in court .Now lets say the contractor is negligent doesnt matter if he has insurance or not .What if whatif you could go on all day the thing is take all precautions and run your business the way you want to every body does at the end of the day. :laughing:

Makes for a good discussion though

patch
14-06-2004, 05:47 PM
I wish to apologise to all fellow members and guests for getting a Little upset with Tonyr comment but I think the this subject has gone far enough
Regardes Patch

Indyanswer
14-06-2004, 05:49 PM
Patch no apologies needed after all we are all men and can handle what comes and goes :aus-flag:

Tonyr
14-06-2004, 05:56 PM
Well Russell it looks like we run our businesses the wrong way , bugger me, if I break an 800 dollar window I expect to pay for it unless they choose to pay which in this case they couldn't.

Yes Dean we all run our businesses differently, my point is, what contractor would you hire, insured or uninsured to mow your lawn?

The work area should be safe correct, it ws until "you" broke the window, you break, you fix....imo.

Yes Ebony I think I get you, mow a lawn brak a window, home owner insurance should cover it....I understand, but I thought that was if the homeowner did the damage, storm etc, not a Contractor, I thought a contractor had to have insurance for person and property, that was a part of professional contracting, fix stuff we break.

Obviously this is getting warm, but I do think you guys in Victoria have things a bit different to QLD, I'm pretty sure if I damaged someones property they would expect me to pay, I break, I fix as why should they effect their premium for something the contractor did?

Probably why uninsured guys charge less, seems hardly right to me, but hey, I'm just a stupid Qlder that believes in paying for stuff I break and I know if I damaged property here, private or commercial I would be expected to pay, because my machine did the damage.

Like I said, what would I know, you guys sell insurance I don't, least I'm learning where I stand in the industry, yes Ebony, my main reason was for property damage with a ride on biz, then person etc, does sound like my cover is an overkill unless I hurt someone.

So....you guys down south, what happens if you injure someone and you aren't insured?
Tough, bad luck..?

Tonyr
14-06-2004, 06:12 PM
Ha, ha Crikey, I type one reply and there are 3 in front, yikes!


Patch, mate I have nothing personal against you, we just tend to wind each other up, don't take my stuff personal, I rave on a lot. :dean:

Russ, mate I'm still on the same wavelength as you though, obviously I'm too thick to understand this insurance thing.
(it's cause we have cleaner air!)



What we should talk about now we have come this far is...

What do we do if we know we damaged property, what do we say and do?

E.g. Do we deny it even if we know and witnesses and let the insurance sort it, or admit and report it to prop. owner, then what?
Still deny, or give our insurance details, or suggest they take legal action?

What if we break a windscreen, or a passing car says I did yet can't prove it?

I'm trying to learn here guys as I've never had a claim and don't know the correct proceedure, I want to learn, don't want to make a claim if legally there was another way...

I do think we thrashed stuff around before, me to blame a lot yes, (sorry) but this is what we members should now be learing, how to correctly use and not use our insurance.

Yes?

Ebony
14-06-2004, 06:12 PM
I think it is called a small claim Tony.

I personally would not ask a contractor to pay for an accident, that is just me. It is each to their own. Generally wondow breakages are a lot less then $800.00 in the general, average household (to the best of my knowledge) Figures I have heard generally range from $100 to $300 for a normal house window. Double glazed front window was broken few years back $120.00 replacement by glazier.

It will often come down to circumstance, I know someone who has it in their policy not to pay for replacement and his customers know it, but he has paid for 2 out fo 3.

How could I ask you to pay for an accident, a freak of nature if you will hehe. If you were being a crazy bugger then sure I would demand you pay me, they would hear me from miles around :dean: lol. But if it just happened, then it may as well have been a storm and it could have happened to anyone. It's a small claim and I will pay for it.

If you kill me with that stone, then that is another story. I will ask you to claim it on your insurance. It's just my personal view. It has nothing to do with business, or insurance, it's just me.

I have had a really rough day and am staying very level headed right now, almost passed out with anger earlier (my wonderfully rude hosting company) You are coming across like you are attacking businesses that you do not agree with Tony. I do believe everyone that has commented here is fully insured! They pay their insurance just like you do! They just have different agreements with their customers then you.

No-one is saying you are wrong Tony and no-one should be saying that anyone with different agreements with their customers are wrong. You do a lot different work to some other people here also. It all comes into it.

Ebony

Indyanswer
14-06-2004, 06:16 PM
Tony I have insurance i have also an agreement with my customers and i would say patch has insurance but id still dont cover my customers windows thats my agreement with my customers .have had no problems in twenty years .would my customers hire me if i didnt have insurance of course not when you make an agareement with some one it is so each party understands what is goin on so there is no fall out later.

Tonyr
14-06-2004, 06:44 PM
Thanks Dean, clearly said, I understand and does make sense, just never thought it could be done, I'm very sure it wouldn't pass here and my views points of views are only based of my knowledge of the human animal in this part of the state.

I will admit at the start of this thread I read it as you guys were saying you were uninsured, and tuff if you did damage as you's weren't coughin' up. Obviously another misunderstanding by me, but it 'reads' that way. I know now so lets move onto what I said above, how do we use our cover? details in last post...

Ebony, I'm sorry you are not at your best right now, really, I hear what you say, folks here wouldn't pay for anything I broke, even wrongly installed pop ups, nup, they reckon a contractor pays for what he breaks and no doubts! Obviously QLD is very different to Vic. I know I have taken this too seriously as I was sooo shocked to think before that folks I've known for 2 years and respect soo much say they don't pay for stuff they break and you's sell insurance and even helped me into this gig, my first thoughts were honestly, ''scrubs!'' I felt sick when I was replying at first, shocked.

But that thought was cleared up and I knew it was me who was not understanding your state's contractors, I thought it would all be the same. Ebony, this has been a heated thread but well controlled, I think we all did a bit of digging, but yeah, for my part I appologise for being out of line.

OK?

We cool now?

Still like to know when we admit to damage, when we don't etc, how it all works in the field please?
What to say, processes etc...

Oh, look at Austarnet Ebony, I've been with them over 4 years after Optus, they are great.

Ebony
14-06-2004, 06:58 PM
If I get so angry and annoyed at a certain website hosting company for their incompetence, lack of knowledgable staff yet over staffed on idiots who must hate working there because they are always real pricks on the phone, never even a nice tone in their voice, that i have a heart of something of the sort, do I get to sue them????

Very hard day, and all I want to do is add another feature to our website for you all :sad: It's a hard life lol.

pbm
14-06-2004, 07:09 PM
I have broken probably a dozen windows in the last 14 years mowing lawns. Where I have seen it happen I have told the customer that I have broken a window, others have told me that I have done the damage. Out of those breakages only one has held me responsible and asked me to replace it. I measured it up went to a glazier shop and replaced it...total cost $20. All the others said "don't worry about it I'll claim it on my insurance" or "it's only a small crack". I even broke a carport once when I was cleaning the gutters. She said she needed to replace it anyway. I find that as long as if I know I have caused damage to a window or anything I admit it and 9 times out of 10 the customer doesn't hold me responsible.

Indyanswer
14-06-2004, 07:18 PM
doesnt matter what state you are in over twenty years have cut grass in each state we are all australians works every where just gotta know how to put it across 95 per cent of people understand

Easycareacres
10-09-2004, 08:38 PM
sorry dean ive done 25 years and wouldnt mean jack s...t if was 2 years as find you totaly wrong in youre statement and to say that crap. What are you haa .
Get real insurance, windows, eyes, valuable property You dont take pathitic gambles my friend you must of been an amutaure from past. You sell insurance haa OWE MAN THIS indy answer gets me laughing.

pbm
10-09-2004, 08:55 PM
Pardon my ignorance but what is an amutaure?

bradtez
10-09-2004, 09:08 PM
Pardon my ignorance but what is an amutaure?

I think an amutaure was a ride on mower built by the french in the 1800's..it didnt catch on as the it ran on 2 sheep power who got full after eating an acre!! :p

Alex Callaghan
10-09-2004, 09:21 PM
I dunno :i dunno:


I havent seen this thread before but I can tell you I'm a professional and pay for any property damage through my insurance. Thats why I have it!! Even if they offer I won't let them pay.

What do you other guys use your insurance for!!
Save it till ya take an eye out or just have it so you "look" professional?


Bloody ridiculas to lump the payment on the owner!


Some of you guys seem a little diluded to what makes "you" a pro and what your responsiblitys as a contractor are.


Thats like me doing one of my public areas and smashing a car window and turning around and saying.............Are you sure you don't want to put it through your insurance company and pay the excess...............Your welcome to...........I really don't mind :rolleyes:


F'n ridiculas this thread!!

Should be no question about it!!


I'm sorry but I agree with Russ.

If thats how you run your show or thats how ya think it's done you have no idea about buisness and the responsibilitys as a contractor.

Go and get a job with a real contractor and see how it's done.

Tonyr
10-09-2004, 09:46 PM
It is a shame to see this, probably the most contraversial thread on this forum....unless this thread has been altered it basically off memory went, we have contractors with insurance but believe any damage they do is not their fault, others who believe whatever damage they do, they will never admit to it, etc, etc, then on the other side it was Russ and myself, dunno off memory if there was others now, but we couldn't understand why pay the big bucks and offer the client no property or personal protection, the way I understood what was said is we should not admit to anything, that's what insurance essors,etc are for.

To date I have not caused property damage, though I am a fool for even typing more into this nonsence thread, I personally believe I pay insurance for a reason, I consider myself a professional and respect other people's property, if I damage anything, it will be fully repaired....

Dunno about the rest of you guys, but I look at those with no insurance or respect for property to be non professional, sorry, just my personal opinion, down south it may be different and home owners may wish to use their own insurance, dunno why though, but I've never met anyone yet who would pay for damage I did.

Don't know why I just wasted those minutes typing to this thread, pure nonscense, and to the guys taking the piss outa russ for misspelling "amutaure", pretty cheap guys.

This bloke has been in and knows more than most of us here about this industry at different levels, being an expert typer doesn't make you someone in this industry fellas, and this guy is someone, instead of poking crap at him, you could learn from this guy! He has probably forgotton more about this industry than many of us ever knew!

He is saying those that don't pay for what they break are ameteurs, and I agree 100%, to those who resent that, if the cap fits wear it!

bradtez
10-09-2004, 10:10 PM
QUOTE Don't know why I just wasted those minutes typing to this thread, pure nonscense, and to the guys taking the piss outa russ for misspelling "amutaure", pretty cheap guys.


For info, i wasnt taking the piss outta russ, i was trying to add a little humour into this as you put it "nonsense" thread. I agree with you..you have insurance because you are professional..accidents happen, and we, as the professional contractoe should pay if it is caused by us.....

Brad

pbm
10-09-2004, 10:16 PM
Sorry Tony for having a go at your mate but usually there is a bit of fun on a Friday night around here...just being silly thats all.

Moe
11-09-2004, 03:46 AM
Let me tells ya, if you damaged someones property and it ended up in a court and Judge Judy was the judge she would make you pay for it in a second so there!
What does that tell ya?

Rod
11-09-2004, 05:54 AM
We have broken two windows in two years. I accepted responsibility and paid cash same day for the repairs.

It is a horrible feeling when you break something like a window and then realize that the whole day was a waste of time financially. Would have been cheaper to stay home.

Naturally I am insured. I would not even know what the excess was on the policy. Its usually high enough to discourage most claims.

It is unfortunate that we can potentially cause more damage than money we make on a job. I am sure most of us have done work on residential properties where the back yard needs a "cleaning lady" before you even attempt to mow. Dog bones, decorative stones falling into the lawn from adjacent flower beds and even small toys are all potential missiles.

I guess if I had an incident with a messy yard as described I would have second thoughts about paying. Somebody wrote in an earlier thread that "it should not be there to start with."

Having an arrangement with customers concerning "all care taken but no responsibility accepted" is certainly provocative. I am not sure that it would in fact "indemnify" you from any action? In my earlier example of a messy yard I simply leave a note (computer generated) stating:

"We attended to your property on this occasion despite the condition of the back yard." Yada Yada Yada.....

It either encourages them to tidy up before we come next time or move on.

"We regret that in future will not move or tidy any items form the lawns or be responsible for any damage caused by our equipment."

Bottom line messy next time then "no mow." I usually cull them after the first run anyway.

In summary if you don't pay for breakage then thats your decision and vice versa. There are strong arguments for and against. If you break something refuse to pay then you accept the Customers assessment of your conduct as a Business Person. They then are at liberty to inform others under the umbrella of "Fair comment."
Above all you then have accept the "risk" that your reputaion could be affected, well at least in that street.

Its all about taking, accepting, managing and mitigating the risks.

Tonyr
11-09-2004, 08:23 AM
Good points Rod.

I guess it all just comes back to common sense to a large degree, if you see the lawn has potential projectiles visable laying around, it is silly to test fate. I will do a quick pick up, only 1 time though....little toys, match box cars etc, toro loves finding these bloody things. dirty yards, i don't do....risk ain't worth it, my access is 250....so most house windows would be a personal payment or negotiate with lawn cuts, it is the commercial doors etc where the dollars are big.

I understand both sides of this debate, I just prefer to take resonsability for my actions....note, toys etc I don't replace if damaged, I will only repair/replace property damage.

I don't cover hoses/nozels either....

basically dirty lawns are owned by those that don't respect or understand our business, and therefore may not make the best clients anyway.

give me acreage anyday! :)

dvmcmrhp52
11-09-2004, 09:06 AM
Hmmmm,
Interesting......................

sharon
11-09-2004, 09:30 AM
Hi Guys, i have just read this thread and i can not find where it is suggested we don't have insurance. I think that honesty is the way to go and that has come across by everybody. I don"t think there is any right or wrong (not regarding having insurance that goes without saying that is a must in my book) just personal choice. So after reading this i will wait till i break something, if i know about it, tell the customer and work it out then. : :wave-hi: sharon

APS_QLD
11-09-2004, 10:51 AM
I was not going to add to this thread but what the hell. I have not done any damage to anyones place, (hmm maybe i should of cursed myself :)) however i am insured for this reason. I do look at it in this way how would i feel if a contractor broke my window or damaged my property and said umm sorry but get it fixed under your own insurance. Have no mistake I would not be fixing it.

I know accidents happen thats why we have the insurance to protect us from this stuff.

Anyway personally i would fix the damage thats just me and i beleive thats good customer relations.

My two cent worth.

Brian

pbm
11-09-2004, 11:08 AM
I broke a window a while back. I measured the window, went to a local glazier and had a piece cut to size went back and fitted it... cost me $20

dexpress
11-09-2004, 11:13 AM
We have broken a lot of windows for various reasons.
We arrange the repair and pay for it straight away. By doing this we have gained some good customers.
We see it as a hazard of the job and an expense.
If someone broke my window and didn`t fix it I would let the world know about it. I do not want any bad publicity because it costs me money.
We found some cheap repairers which has cut the cost in half or better

Topcat
11-09-2004, 12:23 PM
I was mowing, i seen what looked like a rock of dirt, tired i ran over it, BANG- bugger took a chunk out of the side of me mower tossed it in the air- bang- into a lancer, the street was like a war zone.

anyway insurance excess $500.00 cut it short it was obviusly me fault, so he got some quote,cos i was white aftert the incident- the bloke had a mate, panel beater, that could fix it , so i delt directly with him- i paid him he fixed it.

honesty- in the case where you are responsible, was the best defence.

In the end- i paid $375.00 noboby was hurt, just my ego......

now i look b/4 i mow & i gave away all my risky business corner jobs that have rocks that can hit cars.

TomS
11-04-2014, 09:34 AM
Client just texted and said I had cut his overhead phone line while pruning.. I'll go and have a look this morning. Anyone done this? who repairs them, telstra? are they dear to fix?

Tom

TomS
11-04-2014, 11:30 AM
Client just texted and said I had cut his overhead phone line while pruning.. I'll go and have a look this morning. Anyone done this? who repairs them, telstra? are they dear to fix?

Tom

Just been to look.. its the optus cable.

Tom

sterlo
11-04-2014, 11:41 AM
Just been to look.. its the optus cable.

Tom

Just out of curiosity, did it look like a clean cut?

Surely you'd notice if you cut thru it...

Sterlo

GardeningSolutions
11-04-2014, 03:04 PM
Client just texted and said I had cut his overhead phone line while pruning.. I'll go and have a look this morning. Anyone done this? who repairs them, telstra? are they dear to fix?

Tom

I cut the phone line on a job. Never saw it up there or felt the cable, but noticed it dangling loose when I was cleaning up. Called the client and fessed up, said I'd get it fixed. Called Telstra in India and explained I was the poorly gardener that accidently cut their cable and they had it fixed at no cost to me. Very lucky.

Fred's mowing
11-04-2014, 04:39 PM
Client just texted and said I had cut his overhead phone line while pruning.. I'll go and have a look this morning. Anyone done this? who repairs them, telstra? are they dear to fix?

Tom

Ive done a few over the years:doh.
Ive always apologised & told the customer or neighbour, giving them my details.
Never heard anymore of it :cool:.
Hope you have the same good fortune.
When you see them its best to do it first up when its fresh in your mind.
Cheers Fred.

4 Gardens
11-04-2014, 05:35 PM
I did one a while ago

Let them know straight away, they were home

The telstra guys were there before I left and had it fixed,

Best part was no charge. Can be lucky sometimes I guess

Fred's mowing
22-04-2014, 10:19 PM
Client just texted and said I had cut his overhead phone line while pruning.. I'll go and have a look this morning. Anyone done this? who repairs them, telstra? are they dear to fix?

Tom

And the outcome was ?
Cheers Fred.