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Ability
17-07-2007, 11:27 PM
Beware of this one - I was doing a large lawn for a lady who said a local real estate agent has a contract with her and has an option on developing her property. Whilst this option is active the agent will be paying for grounds maintenance, which I checked out before we started and the agent agreed he would be paying.

After the first few visits I had to chase payment - which finally arrived. Recently with over $600 outstanding the lady says the option has now expired and she can no longer afford my services herself. So we stop and again and again have to try to chase the agent for the outstanding $. The agent at first says he can't afford all the outstanding amount but will pay some $ next week. Well next week comes and goes and we chase again - only now the agent refutes our claims for $ and says I have to go back to the lady as he has nothing to do with it. I inform him I will take the matter further and he says "go ahead". Then I call the lady and she says the arrangement was for the agent to pay and she won't be paying and we wern't doing a very good job anyway...

Has anyone been in this situation before? Does anyone know a good credit recovery company??

cadase
18-07-2007, 09:03 AM
I Think i'd spend some quality time at a few of this guy's open inspections :rolleyes:

Eastwood
18-07-2007, 10:03 AM
I too have been stung in the past but for a smaller amount.The problem is we are too trusting with our customers,therefore I have a few tips.In a case where a 3rd party is involved have a contract drawn up with them (ie. estate agent) in writing.Don't allow credit of more than one service to the customer."No dough No mow" rule applies. Unfortunely if you say you will take the"matter further" they call your bluff and say "go ahead" knowing that the costs involved out way the amount due in most cases.
P.S. I like cadcase's idea.

Eastwood
18-07-2007, 10:04 AM
I too have been stung in the past but for a smaller amount.The problem is we are too trusting with our customers,therefore I have a few tips.In a case where a 3rd party is involved have a contract drawn up with them (ie. estate agent) in writing.Don't allow credit of more than one service to the customer."No dough No mow" rule applies. Unfortunely if you say you will take the"matter further" they call your bluff and say "go ahead" knowing that the costs involved out way the amount due in most cases.
P.S. I like cadase's idea.

Ability
18-07-2007, 10:52 AM
I wish I had the time to waste on his inspections & auctions! It would be a good s**t stir!

Has anyone ever thought of compiling a web based site where contractors can register bad payers??

administrator
18-07-2007, 11:01 AM
Ability what is the name of the Agency

Ability
18-07-2007, 06:04 PM
His name is David Harvie from Harvie & Harvie R/E in Baulkham Hills. He runs a development company as an offshoot to the R/E agency called Dean Cliff Developments. :boxer:

BNE
18-07-2007, 06:50 PM
Hey,

We are chasing a sum of money also.... Started off prompt payments and than suddenly she said ill pay u next time . Well next time hasn't come round. Sick of calling her daily.... more excuses. Finally payment and then the cheque was dishonoured. So our next step is to commence legal proceedings in the local court for liquidated damages arising out of breach of contract.
Do not do any work for Mimi from Upstairs Downstairs Cleaning Agency.

BNE

Ability
18-07-2007, 06:56 PM
Hey Admin - is there any chance of arranging a collection agency that might want to service your members - perhaps at a collective discount rate?

It seems there are many that are owed lots of $$$$ and arranging a single recovery is not worth the effort- but as a collective it may be worthwhile?? :confused:

administrator
18-07-2007, 07:19 PM
Try Prushka :rolleyes:
www.prushka.com.au

Debt Collection agency


People that have bad debts know how collection agencies work so no real value there :laughing:

Go down to your local court and get a summons or pay to be a member of CREDIT REFERENCE ASSOCIATION and put them on the bad debtors register .

Ability
18-07-2007, 07:37 PM
Thanks Admin - i'll give them a call. I know they'll want a commision, but I'd rather see something for the work I did rather than nothing. :aus-flag:

Mobbster
21-07-2007, 07:35 PM
i have been caught as i think most of us have
anyone on the central coast be very careful doing work for Gordons of Wamberal , still chaseing money they owe me, was a good job quick payments to start then i had to start chaseing money till i had enough, now they wont pay at all ,lucky i only got caught for one job, i listerned to my instince and thought something was going wrong :( very lucky :dean:

twin_cities_lawncare
22-07-2007, 09:23 PM
Not continuing to mow for people with a non/slow-paying record is probably the best way to reduce risk- both of the longest unpaid/outstanding accounts I can remember were medical/professional people, so bad payers aren't necessarily those who can't afford it. We haven't had any problems with the regular real estate agents we work with but hopefully they would be big enough to cover any work arranged via them and advise us if any ongoinging maintenence arrangements were to cease.
Gut instinct has also come into it on occasion with us, where even while I was mowing, I felt like we were being used as one-off freebie workers - and we were - I was not impressed! I'm guessing these kind of people go around all the contractors in an area using us in the same way, so it would be nice to have some sort of local registry of these users/abusers. Hmmm...

kakegc
23-07-2007, 08:40 AM
That's a great idea Twin Cities! :) Property managers have a "black list" of bad tenants, so why can't we have a list of bad debtors? :i dunno: But I reckon that the privacy act would be a major hurdle in getting it up & running. You'd probably have to get people to sign a waiver letting you check on them so it might get a bit time consuming :i dunno: Still, anything that cuts down on bad debts is a good thing! I had one try it on last week. Luckily for me I had a gut feeling about him & asked for the dosh up front. He looked all puzzled & asked "you want it now? I said yes please & he disappeared into the house for a moment & then came out saying he didn't have the cash. I said no worries mate, when will you have it? He says; next week, so I said; no worries, see ya next week! We're off there again today, but I reckon that it'll be the same story! ;)

kakegc
23-07-2007, 09:15 AM
One of our worst offenders for having to chase them for money was a Govt Dept. I've also dumped a Real Estate mob, 2 property maintenance mobs who advertise gardening as part of their services, but get other contractors to do it & a wholesaler for the same reason. :mad: :mad: :mad: One of the property maintenance mobs advertise for contractors in the paper. Not to mention the private home owners who sting us from time to time! Beware of naming people in a public forum though! Truth is not a defence to slander in this state, so you could get sued by some prick who has stiffed you even though you're telling the truth when you tell people about them. The only criteria for slander here is; where you trying to injure their reputation when you named them? The answer is; of course you were, they stitched you up for payment on work you did for them lol! I dunno about the other states! :i dunno:

Ability
24-07-2007, 10:08 PM
I contacted Prushka and they sent me a recovery kit which I have started to use. Their system is straight forward and up front so lets see if it works!!! I'll keep you updated.

As I've said before - I'd rather see something than nothing! :dean:

NWGL
24-07-2007, 10:47 PM
Go get 'em Ability !!!

I do a bit of work in the Hills area, and I've only heard bad things about Harvie & Harvie from clients.

Another mob to avoid like the plague is Clean 'n' Green.

I did some sub work for them & everything was peachy until I told them I was getting busy & wanted to gradually drop all their jobs.

They stopped paying me & it took months to get anything from them & they still owe me $1500 which I know I will never see. :dean:

Still I got a bit of revenge on them - I went to all the jobs I did for them & told them I was leaving. When they asked why, I told them what they had done.

I then told them I was a subbie (they thought all their staff were employees) & had my own business - picked up a couple of their customers !! ;frosty; ;frosty;

Also tell everyone I come in contact with what a bunch of wankers they are. May not be enough to stop people using them, but it certainly makes me feel better :D

What goes around comes around. ;)

lethal
25-07-2007, 08:49 AM
EC Credit Control are currently trying to get back over 80k which is owed to my other business from a dodgy builder, they are australia wide and seem very good, they leave daily updates on a secure part of their website for you to read and see how it is all progressing.

I did have a landscaping business as well as a lawnmowing run, both were going very well till I got tied up with this f#####n builder, the deal was that I did a whole heap of his houses in a new estate, I got 10k at the start as a good will deposit and got paid the remaining 80k once I finished the last one, I put my bill in last August and I am still waiting for payment, I have tried just about everything without sending the local bikies round to stir him up!

cheers
Lee

Ability
25-07-2007, 11:06 PM
EXACTLY nwgl! The old karma - it comes back to bite them eventually!!

Another story - :dean:
A few years ago I had a R/E property manager who asked me to do some work at her home, which was miles away. Anyway I went there as she was giving me a bit of work through the agency. I did all the work and gave her a good discount (about 50% off ). Anyway she never paid, then resigned and moved to another agency a few weeks later. I sent demand letters etc and nothing!
A year or so later I was on a job with a local sparky who said he had to go and make a collection visit to a property manager who hadn't paid him for some personal work - turns out it is the same person! Last time I spoke with him he was going to discuss the issue with the R/E principal and give him an insight into her poor form! :laughing: I'm hoping the old karma bit her hard!! :russ:

Good news today - one of my debtors who recieved the Prushka letter called today and said payment would be sent straight away!! :cool:

Ability
02-08-2007, 09:12 PM
UPDATE - 7 Days have passed and the cheque still hasn't shown up!!! :mad: :boxer:

Ability
13-08-2007, 11:39 PM
UPDATE - surprise, surprise I haven't recieved any $ :i dunno:

I have authorised Prushka to send in the troops! Lets see what happens....... :rolleyes:

All Fire & Garden
19-08-2007, 09:56 AM
G'Day all, just catching up on the issues and this has caught my eye. To me these stories just add weight to the written contract debate. for us the person who orders the work (sign's) is ultimately responsabe for the settlement.


QUOTE:
Beware of naming people in a public forum though! Truth is not a defence to slander in this state, so you could get sued by some prick who has stiffed you even though you're telling the truth when you tell people about them. The only criteria for slander here is; where you trying to injure their reputation when you named them? The answer is; of course you were, they stitched you up for payment on work you did for them lol! I dunno about the other states".

amen to that. My understanding is that truth is not slanderours so maybe limit comments to facts, and dont draw conclusions. You can say so and so hasn't paid me. leave it at that and we'll get the picture.

Ability
26-08-2007, 12:42 PM
I don't think I mentioned any names unless I was asked.... :i dunno:

NWGL
28-08-2007, 09:41 PM
Any news Ability ?

Ability
28-08-2007, 10:05 PM
Nothing as yet - Prushka seem to be taking some time in starting the formal process.

NWGL
28-08-2007, 10:22 PM
Hey Ability - I was cleaning out my desk the other day & came across a business card I'm sure belongs to you.

We met on a job in Old Castle Hill Rd a couple of years ago - I was doing the gardening there & you were working on townhouse #1 for a real estate company.

Ring any bells ?

Ability
28-08-2007, 10:28 PM
Mate I have trouble remembering yesterday lol :laughing:

I can vaguely remember bumping into you somewhere around there. I see you're trailer & ute quiet often. BTW i like your website! :aus-flag:

NWGL
28-08-2007, 10:39 PM
I know what you mean :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

I think the ute & trailer you see belongs to another mob who are also using my trading name - mine isn't signwritten.

(The same mob are also members of Indy, so hopefully if they read this they will know i'm not happy about it - HINT HINT !! :dean: )

I did the website myself, but I think it's too boring so I'll probably do another when I find some time.

Next time I see you I'll stop & say hi :wave-hi:

Ability
28-08-2007, 10:47 PM
How can they legally use your trading name??? :i dunno: Might be worth investigating via ASIC??? :i dunno: Well at least I won't embaress myself if i front up to them to say g'day!!! :laughing:

For sure if you see us around say G'day! I have a full timer in a Hilux ute with trailer and I get around in a Blue Commodore ute. (while I wait 3 months for a Rodeo 4x4 Turbo diesel)

Perhaps you should branch into website design!!!! :russ: :wave-hi:

63impala
29-08-2007, 06:54 AM
As if your web site is boring Nwgl it looks very profenal to me better than the one I have {nuda} :laughing:

NWGL
29-08-2007, 08:56 AM
I spoke to Fair Trading about it & they said they can't use it. They offered to send them a letter pointing out someone else has registered the name & they shouldn't be using it. I just have to give them the other mobs details & then we'll see what happens. :i dunno:

NWGL
29-08-2007, 09:02 AM
As if your web site is boring Nwgl it looks very profenal to me better than the one I have {nuda} :laughing:

No - it's way too bland. It needs more colour.

If you want me to make you one, let me know. This one only took a day or two, so a simple one can be done even quicker. ;)

Ability
20-09-2007, 10:41 PM
I thought I saw the JB trailer and it looked like it had been changed to BB mowing - could that be right? :i dunno:

NWGL
25-09-2007, 10:17 PM
Not mine - still haven't had signs made for it yet.

How's Prushka going with your mate Harvie ?

Sandgroper
15-11-2007, 01:10 AM
Well this Prushka sounds alright, no fees until they get your money, not sure what the fees are then ?

Well i am owed money from an out of town investor from winter, his place is up for sale here, i sent him a text 2 weeks ago saying please pay or i will take action to prevent the sale of the house, no reply likes to ignore phones calls, invoices etc.

Any way last week it appears that someone removed his For Sale sign and put it away for safe keeping from what i heard, this is a small town and i am sure he will get it back as soon as the moneys in my hot little hand, he rang last friday saying the money will be sent straight out,,,,,,,the cheque must still be in the mail :i dunno:

kakegc
15-11-2007, 08:32 AM
It'd be nice to see how his open inspections go lol! An unshaven guy sitting on an old lounge chair in the street sipping on a VB or 2 with AC/DC blaring on the car stereo lololololol :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

m287j
16-11-2007, 08:50 PM
Beware of Shire Real Estate at Castle Hill as well Bruce and Shane. If you do any work for them you may get paid eventually. :rolleyes:

I did some work for them 10 months ago and waited 4 months to get paid $400 for one job, only when i threatened legal action did i get paid.

Lawn Star
17-01-2008, 10:35 PM
"No dough, No Mow" <---- I love it, that is a classic.

To all thinking about debt collection as a means for recovery it has to be a large amount to make it worth while and even then it is hit and miss.

My wife worked as a commercial debt collector and she knows how it all works and I can tell you the law most of the time suits the perpetrator not the victim. The contract technique suggested is a good goer as you can use small claims to get your money back then.

In all honesty the only real way to get your money back apart from not being so trusting in the first place is well not always pleasant.
Really scum like that only respond to one thing "FEAR". Whether it be fear from prosecution, reputation, physical reprocussion or material damage/theft.
I am not encouraging anyone to resort to those means as it is 'illegal'. But we have to realise we are dealing with people here who scum, who probably have ripped a lot of people off and chances are you are not their first victim.

It is kind of sad to say this but a lot of the time the only way to get your money is to resort to actions that can land yourself in hot water or risk prosectution etc..
To top it off the repocussions then can not only affect you but you family.

There are ways to get your money you just have to be very carefull how you go about getting it :)

Ability
23-01-2008, 10:37 PM
Not too sure about my experience with Prushka just yet. I did get one outstanding cheque, but I always have to chase them to find out where the main claim is at. Last time I called they were sending in the Solicitors, but as we all know it is only a relatively small claim in comparison, so I'm sure it keeps getting pushed to the bottom of the pile....seems like it is taking forever! :i dunno:

kakegc
09-02-2008, 11:07 AM
I wish I had the time to waste on his inspections & auctions! It would be a good s**t stir!

Has anyone ever thought of compiling a web based site where contractors can register bad payers??


With all the hassle I'm going thu with a customer dragging her feet with payment at the moment, I'm wondering if this idea has got legs? Is there any way we could get it up & running??? I'm sick of people like this! :mad:

Another case in point; I started mowing for an old lady in Oct last year & have had enough hassles with her already to say "no more, we won't be back" It turns out that she has had a string of contractors thru there over the years & she bad mouthed all of them to us (after we'd already committed to the job) I know one of the guys she was slagging off & he is one of the best operators out there. If there was a list of PITA's up & running on the web before we went to quote the job, we probably would have saved ourselves a lot of agro & also saved me a face full of dog crap! :(

Mrs HMS
09-02-2008, 03:05 PM
If there was a list of PITA's up & running on the web before we went to quote the job, we probably would have saved ourselves a lot of agro & also saved me a face full of dog crap! :(

We have to be really really careful that when we put people's names etc out in a public formum (like a website), it is a breach of the Privacy Act which can lead to quite a hefty fine.

As much as I love the idea of a "don't touch with a 10 foot pole" website I can't see that this would be legal. I don't know how it would apply to a private, member-based organisation though, need to break out my study notes on the Privacy and Trades Practices Acts (yaaaawn)

bb1
09-02-2008, 04:10 PM
How about if we have trouble with a PITA, we place a noticiable sticker or mark or something, of some kind at the front of the property, a kind off warning sign to any other lawnie who comes along to steer clear

baz
09-02-2008, 08:38 PM
paint the grass red.is that noticable enough
:cool:

lethal
10-02-2008, 06:25 AM
I don't see why we can't just have a post on here under the heading PITA, I'm sure that they wouldn't know about the site, let alone what a PITA is :i dunno:

Bgs
10-02-2008, 07:13 AM
We have to be really really careful that when we put people's names etc out in a public formum (like a website), it is a breach of the Privacy Act which can lead to quite a hefty fine.

As much as I love the idea of a "don't touch with a 10 foot pole" website I can't see that this would be legal. I don't know how it would apply to a private, member-based organisation though, need to break out my study notes on the Privacy and Trades Practices Acts (yaaaawn)

Real Estate Agents Pay a Subscription to a company called National Tenancy Database and when a tenant does the wrong thing like trash the house or not pay rent they advise NTD, and the tenant is listed on the database for all real estate agents to see.

NTD also provides photos of the trashed houses and there are some absolute disgraces

After receiving legal advice from Mrs Hms lol :laughing: I might start up a National Lawn mowing PITA Register where i could send a news letter to private members

bb1
10-02-2008, 08:19 AM
I don't see why we can't just have a post on here under the heading PITA, I'm sure that they wouldn't know about the site, let alone what a PITA is :i dunno:

I don't think admin would be to happy if we started that, as he would be the one, paying out the money to the PITA's who will claim they have being defaimed, etc.

kakegc
10-02-2008, 09:48 PM
We have to be really really careful that when we put people's names etc out in a public formum (like a website), it is a breach of the Privacy Act which can lead to quite a hefty fine.

As much as I love the idea of a "don't touch with a 10 foot pole" website I can't see that this would be legal. I don't know how it would apply to a private, member-based organisation though, need to break out my study notes on the Privacy and Trades Practices Acts (yaaaawn)


You're 100% correct of course Joanne, but wouldn't it be LOVELY to have these jerks exposed! I had a particularly bad week with morons last week & I guess that I was just venting! ;) On top of the drought & the oppressive water restrictions that our totally unimaginative & self serving state govt have imposed on us, this was the last thing we needed! :(

lawn order
10-02-2008, 10:27 PM
Just a suggestion!
If there was a site that I could go to and it had only this info.
300015
If I had a request for a new Quote at No 15 Any Street- Melbourne
I would look extra closely.
Perhaps some of the file No could be a post code and the rest the last numbers of a phone no or a street address.
No black ban - just an alert.
Your thoughts?

grasshopper
11-02-2008, 08:44 PM
geez I booted three PITA's in the last two weeks. I would hate any other Indy contractor to have to deal with them. A heads up web alert is way over-due imo.

Ability
20-02-2008, 10:59 PM
Yes there must be a way of getting this off the ground.
I am always wary when a new prospect bad mouths their previous guy and wonder if it is really true or is this going to be another PITA? :i dunno:

lethal
21-02-2008, 07:01 AM
I don't think admin would be to happy if we started that, as he would be the one, paying out the money to the PITA's who will claim they have being defaimed, etc.


Geez, u dnt hve to put their names in here, just a reference number or code it somehow but you just put in the postcode first so we know straight away whether it is in our area. something like this:
4211(Postcode for Nerang, Qld) 56691(Jones) 15 16424 12(15 Smith St)

Whadda yas think, just a matter of deciphering it using your keypad on your mobile and if you have dictionary on your phone it does it for you.

Ability
21-02-2008, 07:49 AM
And it could be placed in "Members Only" section so that it wasn't a public domain! :russ:

bb1
21-02-2008, 07:42 PM
And it could be placed in "Members Only" section so that it wasn't a public domain! :russ:

Thats sounding better, ADMIN whats your view.

Mellors
25-02-2008, 04:55 PM
I'd be interested to know how real estate agents operate just this sort of thing with potential tenants, and what the legal situation of their data-base is in regards to libel, etc.

lawn order
25-02-2008, 10:07 PM
Just a suggestion!
If there was a site that I could go to and it had only this info.
300015
If I had a request for a new Quote at No 15 Any Street- Melbourne
I would look extra closely.
Perhaps some of the file No could be a post code and the rest the last numbers of a phone no or a street address.
No black ban - just an alert.
Your thoughts?

PITA = flat bread .

lawn order
25-02-2008, 10:09 PM
Just a suggestion!
If there was a site that I could go to and it had only this info.
300015
If I had a request for a new Quote at No 15 Any Street- Melbourne
I would look extra closely.
Perhaps some of the file No could be a post code and the rest the last numbers of a phone no or a street address.
No black ban - just an alert.
Your thoughts?
PITA ; Flat brown bread. = dead

lawn order
25-02-2008, 10:33 PM
gO TO neis & TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK IT MEANS.
yOU KNOW WHO WALKED THE LINE

JJR
25-02-2008, 11:41 PM
?????
Post Code,
Melways Ref,
Street no.
????? .......
Johnny Cash. Didn't he walk the line :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

kakegc
26-02-2008, 02:49 PM
I'd be interested to know how real estate agents operate just this sort of thing with potential tenants, and what the legal situation of their data-base is in regards to libel, etc.

I've been looking into it. They get the tenants to sign off on the privacy act as part of their tenancy agreement. We can do it too by incorporating that into our "terms of service" agreement & getting the customer to sign off on it. It's really quite simple, it's just a case of writing up terms of service & incorporating them into your quote form. I know that's the way we're headed now. Once they sign off, if they don't pay up, you can get them listed on a bad creditor database! :) :) :) Then they stay there till YOU remove them! It means NO MORE INTEREST FREE TERMS at Hardly Normal or home loans, or car loans etc! It's a BRILLIANT WEAPON against these arseholes! :russ:

Mellors
27-02-2008, 03:18 PM
... it's just a case of writing up terms of service & incorporating them into your quote form. I know that's the way we're headed now. Once they sign off...

Thanks kakeg for checking this out!

Do any of you get customers to sign anything after they have verbally agreed to your quote? A month or so after I started in this business, I moved from hand-written quotes (from a carbon book) to a prepared "fill in the blanks" form, and then later on printed "terms and conditions" on the back of this. I had thought about having something to get them to sign, but thought that this would put people off too much.

lawn order
27-02-2008, 11:10 PM
?????
Post Code,
Melways Ref,
Street no.
????? .......
Johnny Cash. Didn't he walk the line :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:


Now that is a good idea,
If I saw that info posted in the New Enterprise Incentive Scheme section of any site I think that an up front "Walk the line" would be in order.
You are brilliant JJR

NWGL
23-04-2008, 09:12 PM
Not too sure about my experience with Prushka just yet. I did get one outstanding cheque, but I always have to chase them to find out where the main claim is at. Last time I called they were sending in the Solicitors, but as we all know it is only a relatively small claim in comparison, so I'm sure it keeps getting pushed to the bottom of the pile....seems like it is taking forever! :i dunno:

So what happened ? Did Prushka sort it out ?

NWGL
23-04-2008, 09:16 PM
Another one for the Sydney guys to avoid is Versatile Ceramics.

They take months to pay - again it takes threatening letters to get the money they owe you. :dean:

Ability
23-04-2008, 10:52 PM
Current status is that they have been unsuccesful with all the correspondance they have sent this guy, but now they claim that they have made previous claims against this same guy and as soon as the solicitors/court action starts he pays up.....

So - they now want me to pay the 1 off all inclusive fee of @ $625 to start the solicitor/court process - still giving it some thought, but if they are succesful I will also recoup about 75% of this fee. I'm keen to do it, because this guy is SCUM, just need to find some spare $ for a month or two. :i dunno:

Ability
23-04-2008, 10:53 PM
How did all those Aus flags get into my signature area?????

just john
24-04-2008, 12:13 PM
what Australian flags :aus-flag: :aus-flag: :aus-flag: :aus-flag: :aus-flag: