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View Full Version : Let's talk about healthcare..........



dvmcmrhp52
05-08-2004, 01:11 PM
There's been a lot of talk in the last ten years about Government run healthcare here in the U.S., it scares the pants off of me to think of the government taking over anything..............

With that said and the fact that a certain political party to which I do not belong to,is constantly pushing for the takeover of our healthcare system,I'd like to hear from those of you out there that have a gov't run system and what you think of it.

Talk about quality of care, Availability of care, Cost, Tax burden because of it,etc.

In my opinion we've got the best or one of the best healthcare
systems in the world with new technologies,new drugs,new techniques all being developed because of a free market incentive.

Tell me why I'm wrong or where I am mistaken.

Thanks.

Steve Ladlow
05-08-2004, 10:52 PM
Which party is pushing this adgenda?
Is this a major issue in the up coming election?

Dont know much but in recent history our gov The Liberals (Conservative) pushed for private health care to adopted by the general public. This was about 5 yrs ago, they even gave tax incentives to encourage it. We had it anyway but have since dropped out due to cost. This year they started telling us (the electorate) that they were streanghtening medicare (Govt health system) in the lead up to our election which is on faily soon.
Kind of suggests to me that the push to private health insurance hasnt quite work the way they wanted.

Is your system "user pays" ie buying or bargaining insurance? or im i missinformed always interested in how others do things.

mick
05-08-2004, 11:56 PM
Not to mention the changes they want to make to the Pharmaceutical scheme. We'll be paying as much as the Americans in a few years if Howard has his way! It'll change accessibility to generic medicines too.
Watch 4 Corners next week to find out more. It was on the the other night as well, very scary stuff if you dont make much money and you get sick.
Apparently, the rest of the world is trying to use our scheme as a bench mark for the own schemes and now ours might change. :i dunno: Damn those Liberals, screw up and lie about everything! Its alright for them, they get everything on a silver platter and dont have to pay ****.
God I hope they dont get back in! :mad:

Sorry for the rant, just hate polies. Lying 2 faced self gratifying scum. The lot of them!

dvmcmrhp52
06-08-2004, 09:13 AM
Steve,
It is typically the Democrat party that is pushing this agenda.................(liberals) They are the party that believes the government should do everything and we should just sit back and
act like bloody possums.

Not for me, I'm a republican (conservative) and I'm not interested in the government getting in my shorts any more than they already are.


Our current system is private insurance that is payed for by the individual or most often payed for by the company you work for.
Other than that we do have medicare for the elderly(gov't run healthcare) and medicaid (gov't run healthcare for the poor).

Even medicare and medicaid is run through private insurers though,the gov't just reimburses the doctor or hospital at a certain rate that is determined by a bunch of politicians.

Tonyr
06-08-2004, 10:19 AM
Mick said...

Sorry for the rant, just hate polies. Lying 2 faced self gratifying scum. The lot of them!

======

Mate, you are sooooo right! They are all crap, doesn't matter what party they are glorified criminals raping us and our country, the whole political system is a joke, bunch of spoilt kids in suits!

======

Dave said...

They are the party that believes the government should do everything and we should just sit back and act like bloody possums.

======

Bloody possums? What's up with Bloody Possums? LOL!

I hear ya, sounds like you blokes have the same issues, serve the rich, screw the poor, but mostly serve themselves!

odin
06-08-2004, 03:17 PM
heres the way it works here .

the vast majority get insured though their employer...the cost of this is skyrocking and many employers are cutting back and some all the way out.

The poor do get medicade ..not all doctors accept medicade .....im sure as hell glad my wife and daughters dont have to go to places like cook county hospital and the quack doc's in the inner city clinics.
But medicade is altho barely...... better then nuthin.....if you work at a job that doesnt provade coverage ....and make enough money you cant get medicade ..your out of luck ...there quite a few in this boat ..they work one sometimes two and 3 jobs and are undercovered at best.



This problem will get worse as insurance and hospital costs skyrocket with the ageing poipulation of baby boomers put a HUGE strain on the system.


Big employers like gm ford etc etc would love the goverment to provide coverage ..it would save them billions....smaller business's are agaisnt unverisal health for obvious reasons ..it would make there costs go up.

It will be intersting what happens with the baby boomers here comeing into the sytem ...interesting indeed.

Alex Callaghan
06-08-2004, 04:04 PM
PBS Pharmaciutical Benifis Schem may not sound like a good thing.

What you have to remember is the Howard Governmant has pulled this country out of 20billion dollars of deficate that labour got us into because they had (still have ) not grip on the realitys of running a country! The Howard govermant are running a country and that involves hitting the people where it hurts somtimes Ie PBS but at the same time look at all the good things they've done.
Got Australia out of 20billion worth of deficate, Recent trade agreement with the US that will be great for primary industries and at the same time strengthen our econonmy, Pumped the largest amount of funds into the sustainability of our enviroment that this country has EVER seen,One off payment schem for famialys with young children (dunno whats its called?), Strengthening medicare, Stabilized the Aussie doller....and thats pretty hard do do when paying back 20Billion...... and did I mention getting us out 20 BILLION DOLARS of deficate that Labour got us into?

Labour are a bloody pathetic joke IMO Mark Latham is one of the most underqualified whackas this country has seen run for governament. I'm not sure if you are aware the Mr Latham was Mayor of Liverpool council and while he was there, in all his wisdom sent the council into a state of deficate in a big way and basically sent liverpool council down the toilet...........So much so that he resinned from his position and the council needed State funding to pull them out of the crapper! If Mark Latham can't even run a Council how the **** is he going to run a country?
Mark Latham the other night was asked on Tv if he could garentee that us (the Aussie people) would be better off under a labour governmant and he said sweet **** all!! So he isn't saying that he is going to anything that will Benifit Australia and us...............Is he now????

Mark Lathams "Policys" are addoptions from other countrys did you know? Nothing he has thought of him self :laughing: . The whacka wants to ban addvertising on tv, sports events etc for Maccas, Grog. This is a swedish policys thats has been in place for years!!! Mr latham says " We need to do somthing about obessity and alcahol cosumption" The sweeds have had this policy in place for years and according to the sweedish buerue of statistics the levels of obessity and alcaholism have rissen during the X neber of years the policyshas been in place and Mr Latham wants to spend 25million dollars on this "Iniciative" :laughing:

I stay up most nights and watch question time on ABC because I want to be able to make an EDUCATED descion when I vote. I don't want my vote invluenced by some load of **** on LateLine etc.
Stay up and watch watch qestion time!! I have been ROTFLMAO thanks to the labour Government almots every night with their half cocked policiys and constant back flips on them

VOTE LIBERAL!!!!! :russ:

Easycareacres
06-08-2004, 05:39 PM
Haaaaaaaa Alex you tell em matey jonny be goode pretty good alright. Mark latham owe man let the refugees in, give local butchers have license to do vasectomies heee. Labour has alot to answer for, hey hows the pig farm ol Paul Keating brought with taxpayers money. Labour seems to give incentives for the unemplyed to sleep in more.
love it lol

Tonyr
06-08-2004, 06:00 PM
Ya right ya know, There is no one party or polly that is good, they are all career bludgers after every cent they can rape out of the system.

We need to get rid of all of the dead wood, out of the whole government system, and give jobs to those with a desire to work, the ministers etc, joke, the higher ups...glorified crims!

Get rid of most or all and start again with honestly, people who want the best for australia, not their own bank accounts!

As much as I don't like howard, imo, he is the best of the bad bunch, he doesn't win elections, the other gooses simply lose!

I can say, when Howard got in, the arse fell out of farming....he wanted to wipe out rural debt, he gave the Banks the OK to clean house..call loans up....I know many farmers who couldn't survive, we chose to sell up before we were made to, so when you sign a mortgage up guys read the fine print, it doesn't tie the bank to the terms, it only ties you, they can pull a loan up anytime they want, one bank I heard in '98 called up 1500 farm loans...next year another bank went in etc, etc.

Alot of the big inland properties with cattle etc were family owned, not now, either a govn. manager or a yank company owns them like most up the gulf, bought out cheap by yanks by our great leader.

Don't believe me? Go to Gympie for example, it was one of the richest small crops towns in the state, go there now, buggerall farms left, most went back to scrub, and I'm talking big farms too...howard hates farmers, he sure showed his strength doing deals with the devil, banks!

Alex Callaghan
06-08-2004, 06:42 PM
Tony, I belive you mate.

It's pretty hard to make everyone happy mate. If the farmers havn't got their nose out of joint about somthing single income famialys do or single parents or importers do etc etc etc.
Yeh, Somthings the howard governamant have done things I have really disagreed with but at the end of the day they are running country and crule to be kind to one bunch of people is needed to help Australia as whole somtimes.

As for getting rid of the old wood. Mate yeh............World peace would be good too so would alot of things. The way things are now is the reality of thing mate. Learn to deal with it. Ya gota play the cards your delt and thinking oh this should be this way or this should be that way is just idealistic hippy **** IMHO.

It's like the whole thing in Iraq. People don't understand why the US and the rest of us went in and go on and on about the fact that there where no WOMD there. Weather or not there were is besides the point and mabey it was a bit underhanded for them/us to use it as means to invade but when it's all said and done, it had to be done IMO. Iraq was a fuct up place and the guy that ran the show was one crazy mother and more of a dictator than anything else. If we hadn't have gone in it we might be fine now but years dowwn the track mabey not. It was a do it now or do it later sort of thing IMO. IMO anybody that thinks that it shouldn't have been done for this reason and that should just pack up and go and live in a hippy conume or somthing where they can talk about how the world should be and thats BS, this is the world we live in today and we have all got to do what we've got to do! It's reality and if ya don'r like it......stuff tities cause this is it and no amount of *****ing is gunna change it.

Tonyr
06-08-2004, 07:00 PM
Yeah mate, I hear ya....

like I said he is the best of the bad bunch....that gives plenty of scope for opinions.

With the terrorist thing, I am in 100% agreeance with howard and bush, though I think bush has other agendas involved all the same, world terror can only be solved with terror, problem is we all go in too keep peace, be passive....how about going in with everything the non terror countries have and solve this once and for all without listening to the bloody dooooooo gooders, dooooo gooder aren't over fighting getting shot at, no they sit back and whine but don't have the spine to problem solve, hugging tree while on the dole isn't stopping moron scum breed terrorists from blowing us up!

I am with howard on this one....but I do strongly agree that the professional dolies, punk ass young adults, crims etc should be enlisted and made to fight for the country that has supported them, that will get our numbers up and might even make good people out of these pricks.

Alex Callaghan
06-08-2004, 07:11 PM
Bloody oath he's the best out of a bad bunch but as I said thats the way it and no amount of winging is gunna change thing ay!

"hugging tree while on the dole isn't stopping moron scum breed terrorists from blowing us up!" Too bloody right!! LMAO :laughing:


I am with howard on this one....but I do strongly agree that the professional dolies, punk ass young adults, crims etc should be enlisted and made to fight for the country that has supported them, that will get our numbers up and might even make good people out of these pricks.

Yep. Send the bludgers, tree huggers and baggy clothes wearing ****ers off to a training camp in columbia or somthing.......prepare them for killing arab scum! Be doing a **** load more good than what there doing now.

dvmcmrhp52
07-08-2004, 09:29 AM
I couldn't agree with you guys more............


Uh hum,
What about healthcare???????

Just kidding,Most threads do go down a different road and become
something of interest.

I'm glad to hear that some one else in the world can actually look past the politics of Iraq and actually see the good that has been and continues to be done.

odin
07-08-2004, 01:58 PM
patriot pussy draft dodgers ...who avoided like the plague what they send my son to do .......well **** them

THE TIME IRAQ SHOULD HAVE BE TAKEN OUT WAS 1990 ..WHEN THE WHOLE WORLD WOULD HAVE SUPPORTED IT.


YOUNG MEN DIE **** IN POLITICTIONS LIE

Alex Callaghan
07-08-2004, 02:06 PM
patriot pussy draft dodgers ...who avoided like the plague what they send my son to do .......well **** them

THE TIME IRAQ SHOULD HAVE BE TAKEN OUT WAS 1990 ..WHEN THE WHOLE WORLD WOULD HAVE SUPPORTED IT.


YOUNG MEN DIE **** IN POLITICTIONS LIE

Too right mate.
Bush Senior should have finished the job the first time!

mick
09-08-2004, 11:53 AM
Saddam was a terrible person who did terrible things to his own and neighboring people. Know one will deny that, but what did he have to do with the World trade center bombing? I Dont know because there still trying to work it out themselves! Have they found any WOMD yet, NO! What about Syria and Nt Korea. The list goes on and nothings been done to them. Even Pakistanies where involved in hiding Bin Laden. What happening to them....... Nothing! Why, because America cant gain from it. re: Oil!
I saw an American" doco a while ago and Bush was going to war before he even got elected! He said so!
What its all about!............ OIL! Bushes family has interests in Oil along with people who were aligned with his campaign. Frankly, he shouldn't even be President. It was a conspiracy how he got in with, something to do with loosing "Black" votes in California for the other party. Thats just 1 example but there were more under handed tactics involved with getting him in.

Howard is getting us out of debt but its the way its being done. GST for instance, Have prices risen? YES. And even though he told us they would not. Does it cost you more to get your tax done 4 times a year rather than once? Yes! Did he lie about the children being thrown over board? Yes! (By the way, I dont want these people coming in either but its the way he lied and used them to get re elected with a blatent lie) Any money we might get back is because we get taxed so high in the first place. We're one of the highest tax paying countries in the world (Stuff in America is soooo cheap by the way)
What about privatization! Thats worked well...... Not! Bank fees have only gone up and the way the banks treat people is just disgusting unless you have alot of money! Insurance companies! Well we all know thats out of control! Telstra! We already owned it and now he's sold and or selling the rest of it off. It was Australia's biggest asset and look whats happening, price rises everywhere. (Money for the share holders. Wernt we already share holders) When its only goal is to get money to share holders, its you and me who will pay for it. We used to be part owners of the thing and now it will be going to the few people who bought the shares!
Healtcare, I sat in a hospital waiting room for 8 hrs with a broken back, broken wrist and internal bleeding! Does the public hospitals need more money/staff, YES!
Enough of that anyway!

Lets talk about "greenies" Sure some/most of them a scum bag dole bludgers and some are only in it to be cool but, if it wernt for some of them we'd have less rain forests etc. Now you lot can argue all you like but cutting down beautiful rain forests is "NOT" a good thing. We only have about 1% left and they still want more. They say its selective clearing, bull****! They have to get the dozers, trucks in there and the waste thats produced is massive. Tasmania is the classic for this except thet still do clear felling and poison the native fauna. In the end what do we get. Wood chips! What a ****ing waste! Farmers still want to clear massive areas. Why, because the land they'd already cleared is now salinified, unproductive etc. Why, too many animals on to poorer soil. Then they want to clear more and after a few years, thats stuffed, then they'll want more. Now I'm not blaming all farmers for this because most of the damage had been done years ago but surely they should learn from there predisesors mistakes. Salinity is a huge problem and thankfully some farmers are learning and replanting trees and there land is more productive now, with trees than it was without!(wind breaks, lower water table etc)
It just ****s me sometimes when people bash greenies, like I said, some are real scumbag drug addicts but what some of them do is open our eyes and let us know whats going on in the forests.
Alex, would you rather go 4x4ing in a forest or a waste land? (and I'm not talking about desert) Lets not forget the effects of getting rid of the forests, Global warming! Oh ****it! Just cut it all down, burn it and flood the plant! Who cares, I wont be around. But my kid will!

In finishing up this rant! :rolleyes: Just remember, if you vote for the libs, your really voting for Costello! He'd have to be the biggest 2 faced, silver spooned asshole sitting in parliment today! IMHO

odin
09-08-2004, 12:09 PM
sorry everybody for the filthy talk eboney you cabn edit it out if you want.

Really dont matter any more the reson how why or should we have gone to iraq.

We committed now and it might be a decade in there ...looks a whole hellava lot like a conflict that happened in southeast asia.


The people have been programmed on a gulf war 1 ..type of war ..wham bam thank you mame and we gone.

Mighty afraid this is gonna be a long one ....and they may just do the old whats the best way to get the hell out of here routine if this thing lasts as long as i think it will.

Tonyr
09-08-2004, 12:38 PM
Mick, mate I doubt anyone here dissagrees with anything you said.

Greenies: Mu view is, the goal behind these orgs is great and 100% needed, my only issue is how some of these folk go about getting the message accross, tresspassing, vandalism etc.
we all know many of them aren't legit, they are enemployed bits of crap who can go play savour live life as a joke and get the dole as they can state they are professional protesters or something.

But I would not call myself a tree hugger greenie, I am a huge believer in stopping or reducing land clearing, farmers need to diversify, get smarter not clear more, their problem isn't land, it is water and fertility, landclearing surely is a step in the wrong direction. I'm not going to tie myself to a D9 but we are clearly stuffing this fragile country, fast!

4 x 4 ing, many of the well known tracks are now closed in our parks anyway, and the damage isn't 4 x 4's yet they get the blame.
Like fraser island, 100% sand, they close a lot of the tracks to revitalise, regeneralise, this is where greenies go to far, bloody sand tracks continually shift, beach driving, they are trying to stop that too...the beach changes with every tide though, cars aren't the problem, imo.

Yet governments let resorts get built, talk of a rail line all over the island now, like this won't harm the place...if pollies can earn a buck anything can happen...

We are not heading in a good direction, we get into wars for the wrong reasons, we prolong to gain, we kill off our countries green, this thing in iraq, it gunna end soon...too much dooo gooder at the start now , should of been more thought out.

We are fighting sick twisted war lords, bred into them, they love it, we are acting as peace keepers while they pluck us off, this is something we won't win, imo.

And it's only monday!

Easycareacres
09-08-2004, 01:45 PM
I cannot stand Cosstello either, BUT I will no way send back to a massive depbt or boy scout ideas from labour party. GST you would have had with any party most of the world has today either vat etc usa has theres goes on.
Greenies good, with all there **** half the time but neat that we all hear see whats going on. With wars etc we need a stable party, none of them are but I know who I feel safe with. Good points Mic love fredom of speech.

Alex Callaghan
09-08-2004, 02:59 PM
Odin, I can't see in any way how Iraq is anthing like Vietnam. I know you where there but mate................Vietnam was completly different IMO. You, we......are fighting an enemy that is completly different and not in a full blown war. Different reasons for this conflict too. The only simalarity is that yours and our troops are probably going to have to be there for years to come. IJMO.

Mick, Explain to us all how Iraq is about oil mate? Iraqi governmant is back in the hand of it's people now . The US isn't taking oil out of Iraq. Iraq is run by it's own Governmant now, so how dose Iraqs oil have anything to do with W's votes. Please explain.
I admited that the way they/us got in was not honest but IMO it was do it now or do it latter. I'm for it, just not the way it was done. It's been done and thats the reality of things!

As for Australian politics. I said it before and I'll say it again. If Mr Latham can't run a local council how the **** is he going to run a country!!! Mabey John Howard did lie about the boat people but it was never proved and as far as I know it came back to some military guy that withheld info from Howard and he resighned because of it. Not sure though It could have been one big lie!

If we didn't have GST we would be the only developed nation in the world that didn't have it. Had to have GST introduced! It's still young our GST and has teething problems. You don't have to submit BAS quarterly if ya don't want mate. You can opt to submit yearly. GST is a proven tax system. It's been used in countrys like NZ for years before we ditched sales tax.
But yep, Howards done some stupid things in the time hes been in the hot seat, theres no dening that for me. What Australian priminister hasn't done some stupid things while in? It's not like Howard is doing these things for financial gain mate. He's not on an hourly rate or comision basis! He gets paid a set figure each year and it's alot. Personaly I would like to think the bloke running our country gets paid alot! He dose most the things he dose in the best intrests of our country and not every body is going to agree with him. Anyway I know I wont be voting for Labour! Labour are a joke and you watch how this country gose into a downward spiral if Lathams joke of a party get in! IMO.

Not going to diagree with what your saying about the enviroment!
Except farmers have to and are learning quick about the affects of salinity in conventional farming tecniqes. Alot of it had to do with the old school farmers that simply didn't know any better. Most farmers now know they have been basicaly ****ing in their back yard and are changing to different farming techines that are orientated around the long term sustainability of their land. Convensional farming (Ie monoculture) is becoming a thing of the past! The Farmers aint silly and most know that they havn't inherited their land from thier fathers and are borowing it from thier children!
I agree for most of what greenis stand for. Just too much rubbish goes along with it.

Easycareacres
09-08-2004, 05:19 PM
haa vietnam was a pathitic war. have many nz mates been there. They even said what a bunch of medaling chocolate gals they wrre. They had the gear but no brains. Hasnt changed whip the ****ers out in 2 mins. WORLD wars ha they got posted to islands, countries impregged our fluff, while our men in front lines ha yanks not dumb. **** sake I cant stand a yank at an airport. SO loud.

Alex Callaghan
09-08-2004, 05:47 PM
My uncle was in Nam. He's told me some pretty funny, scary storys!

He spent 6 months in a tiger cage eating earth worms and bugs! See's a threaripist now (as ya would!)

One story....................He was part of some sort of snipper group (lots of head shots he reakons)and used to be sent out on short kind of missions. One night they were camped about 2-3 claymore mines went off that he set up before trying to sleep. Long story short he picked up one of the dudes arms that got a body full of ball bearings and put it in his back pack and toke it back to base when they finnished the mission and put it in his comanding officers bed!!

One sick dude ay!!

I've always seen him as being a few sandwichs short of a picnic arfter he told me that.
Geta bit scared when he comes to visit me and little women :frightene

Rod
09-08-2004, 06:47 PM
I only missed out on nam by a few years **** scared I was going there.

mick
09-08-2004, 07:40 PM
Mick, Explain to us all how Iraq is about oil mate? Iraqi government is back in the hand of it's people now . The US isn't taking oil out of Iraq. Iraq is run by it's own Government now, so how dose Iraq's oil have anything to do with W's votes. Please explain.
I admited that the way they/us got in was not honest but IMO it was do it now or do it latter. I'm for it, just not the way it was done. It's been done and thats the reality of things!


Ok so the Iraqis have there own Govn in, who put them there? Who chose them? Whos going to buy the oil? It truly is a very complicated machine when it comes to oil. I do promise you 1 thing, the US "will" buy Iraqi oil! They cant yet because its not safe enough to do so. You see, as far as I know, Iraq isn't part of OPEC so now they'll get it cheaper! Will we? I doubt it!

Now I didnt expect everyone here to agree with what I posted and it was just my point of view, I watch alot of doco's on world events etc and thats what I make my judgments on! Am I a conspiracy theorist, probably but where theres smoke, theres usually fire! Right or wrong, its "my" opinion and until I'm proven wrong......!

By the way, watch 4 corners tonight about the Free trade agreement and its effect on the pharmaceuticals. For the record, I'm all for free trade, but the Big pill companies pay there polies to arrange things to make more money for themselves. They say they need more money for R&D but they spend more on advertising than on R&D. Also, they buy the Patients from the Uni's that actually do the R&D so they actually spend very little on it themselves, so that shouldnt be the argument. The argument is they want more money for the share holders!

Odin, by the way I'm not trying to bash you or your fellow Americans (where did I hear that) Its just the way the rest of us get sucked into your Gov's ideals/problems with little or no benifit to ourselves.

odin
12-08-2004, 03:11 PM
alex by being like vietnam i meAn ...we have a insurgency guerrilla war and they are useing terriist tactics ..strapeing explosives and blowing their selves up were they can kill the most soldiers and c ilivians... very similar to the vc...and also it hard as hell to know who the hell is your friend or foe.

hell in vietnam your barber might be cutting your hair one day and trying it shoot you as a vc the next




easy care acres


you might not like me and americans thats your priviledge.....like it or not our countries and great britan are tryed togeather by blood and the same people settled each country...english irish scots and welsh.


Now you can run americans down as brainless all you want ......you just think about the men who died in the south pacfic .....you might just be speaking japanesse now if not for american blood as well as you own country's blood.



you can run me and america down ..BUT YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO DISRESPECT AMERICAN FIGHTING MEN AND THIER SACRAFICES.

If i took a bottle of whiskey and a keylow of herorin i couldnt get high enough to say something so disrespectful about the austrailians who served with us in vietnam..

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05-11-2007, 02:10 PM
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