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GregG
16-11-2004, 08:49 PM
Our monarch once said that her year was annus horribillus.
Well the last week has been mine.
The week started out great I picked up a couple of new customers. I also rang an agent for a big acreage estate up here who was an old mate and he put the estates developer on to me. We chatted I gave him my quote, we discussed it I came down a bit and hey presto I had a 40 acre new estate to mow.
That was monday night, wednesday morning I got the site plans and instructions in the mail, off I go to mow. We have had heaps of rain and the ground was soft and the summer grass that the developers had sown was 1 1/2 to 3 feet high but not thick. Thats OK just take it slow and we will get through it. Started at 11.30am and mowed till 7.00pm it was slow going and managed 9 acres.
Next day did a couple of booked in jobs then out at 10.00am to start again, more long grass but after 2 hours all the long stuff is finished now about 28 acres left of shorter paddock grass to do. One last little bit uncut I just touch it up and DAMN there was some soil control barrier under the grass that stopped the blades, cleared it out and blades won't go. After much investigation I think its the clutch, go to mower shop and yes new clutch and $614 plus fitting.

Parts from Melbourne o'night arrive 4.30pm the boys fit it and ready for pick up Sat morning. Out Igo again to finish job and impress new client 20 min of mowing and going at slow walking pace BANG, a bloody 10inch pulley with a 8 inch bolt sticking up. Even though I have deck in travel mode which is about 7 inches it still stops the deck cold, back up start again and 5 minutes later while sitting still with blades still engaged BANG and the deck stops and will not start again.

Back to mower shop the gearbox a suspect, pull it apart and its dry as the Simpson Desert and stuffed housing and bearings $800 thank you very much. Part arrives tomorrow back on deck then.

The developer is very sympathetic but really wants his estate looking neat and tidy. I don't want to lose this one as it could lead to others as he is sick of unreliable contractors who don't deliver and take shortcuts.

I have only just put 40 hours on the mower since purchase and I was assured by previous owner that they would service it for me (they have 6 ZTR's). The gearbox should be inspected every 100hours for oil level and changed after 500 hours. I should have taken it to the mower shop when 1st bought but I wanted to do about 20 hours and then take it in with a list of things to correct.

After 10 hours I went to put new blades on but couldn't get them off so in to the mower shop with a list. It was then found that 2 spindles were stuffed, no real sign of grease , at least for 60 hours and that 2 spindle pulleys were cracked due to somone previously fitting the wrong size. Also the travel arm tube on the lap bars was welded on one end and therefore I can't get full forward speed. The brake shoe is sliding off one wheel.

I spoke to the old owner and he says that they grease every day and that any thing else ie. the pulleys and lap bars would have been done by the old Scag dealer who went bankrupt and who my current mower shop bought business off. Thankfully the old staff are all gone, I checked this out before doing business with them as I knew how bad the old owners were and if they were still involved then I would not sep foot in the premises.

Moral is:

Buy new
If not get serviced fully before starting work
Don't trust people selling used equipment

My bill to get this all fixed is now about $3,000.

mojo111
16-11-2004, 09:56 PM
Yep it pays to bite the bullet and buy new sometimes.

Sorry to hear that you'r new toy has thrown a wobbly and cost ya some doe so soon.

Yes it pays to get any second equip inspected befor handing over any greenbacks thats for real

Sonuds like that job could be a winner, You'll be able to upgrade ya mower sooner than ya think and buy a newie.
Lets hope the motor doesn't go BANG! :laughing: :laughing:

GOOD LUCK.

GregG
16-11-2004, 10:24 PM
Thanks Phill
I am intending that if I get a new mower for it to be a 72 incher and then put a mulch kit on the old (all new parts now) 52 incher and keep it for more "manicured well maintained lawns" which will be less stress on it and the big 72 incher for the larger/scrubbier stuff.

mick
17-11-2004, 12:05 AM
Sorry to hear about your troubles mate.

Ive been lucky with my JD. I've hit a block splitter, star posts, huge rocks etc that have stopped the blades dead. Fortunately, no real damage except needing a new blades, belt and bash the deck where the spindles attach level again.

I've always been sus on second hand equipment for exactly the reasons you stated. You just dont know how well they've been looked after.

At least now you have some new parts on the machine and hopefully will be right for a while.

I hope your getting payed well for this job though with all this damage its caused.

Tonyr
17-11-2004, 07:25 AM
Thanks Phill
I am intending that if I get a new mower for it to be a 72 incher and then put a mulch kit on the old (all new parts now) 52 incher and keep it for more "manicured well maintained lawns" which will be less stress on it and the big 72 incher for the larger/scrubbier stuff.

=========

Sorry to hear about your problems mate, certainly don't need those this time of the year. I learn't the hard way too, my 1st mower was 2nd hand, cost heaps to get it right, lost heaps of opportunities, even demo machines can be as bad.

If ya doing this mugs game as a full time biz, like I've always said on forums, you need warrantee, good dealer, new machine.

Anything demoed or 2nd hand is just taking on other peoples problems, the risk is not worth it.

I'm certainly no expert, but I'm not sure a 72'' deck with a petrol 25 to 28 hp engine is gunna impress you if the main purpose is to cut "the larger/scrubbier stuff." Sure on good areas you will cover the metres faster, but its a big deck, so you get into the thick stuff it will need every horse to power that size deck.

For the rough scrub stuff the theory actually works the other way, big engine, no bigger than a 60'' deck, gives ya engine more horses per spindle to clear the clippings out without as much bogging down.

A 72'' er may restrict you a lot on jobs that aren't flat too, they say 72'' decks will scalp more than 60'' ers too, which scalp more than 52'' ers...

A mechanically good 60'' machine is very versatile am ample for big areas and rough mowing, and the perfect match is 60'' with 28 efi engine, 25hp can struggle, don't increase deck, increase engine and cover the ground faster that way, not width, go wider, you will mow slower and put more wear on the engine to power the big deck.

As I said, I'm no expert, but have owned a few mowers, learn't the hard way, while others here may dissagree with me, I am only passing on my experiences from what I've learn't and been told.

If you have sports fields etc, then get a 72'' decker, they are made for flat areas. Plus wide decks need wider trailers, more headaches.

Once ya get ya scag all sorted I'm sure it will be good, or you could fix er up, sell it through groundsman mag, and look at a new something else? New mowers down brissy way are very cheap nowadays.

mick
17-11-2004, 07:57 PM
I'm certainly no expert, but I'm not sure a 72'' deck with a petrol 25 to 28 hp engine is gunna impress you if the main purpose is to cut "the larger/scrubbier stuff." Sure on good areas you will cover the metres faster, but its a big deck, so you get into the thick stuff it will need every horse to power that size deck.

For the rough scrub stuff the theory actually works the other way, big engine, no bigger than a 60'' deck, gives ya engine more horses per spindle to clear the clippings out without as much bogging down.

A 72'' er may restrict you a lot on jobs that aren't flat too, they say 72'' decks will scalp more than 60'' ers too, which scalp more than 52'' ers...


This is my opinion also!
My engine is a 24hp diesel and I could of put a 60" deck on it. I chose a 54" instead to have the extra power. I'm REALLY glad I did this. Bigger decks have more draw backs that you'd think!
Stick with a 60 with heaps of HP. Then your speed will make up for the width!

Good reply Tony!

GregG
17-11-2004, 08:34 PM
Thanks Fella's, Mates and Shiela's for replies.

I can see what ya mean about the 72inchers needing horsepewer in the thick stuff but if it is more just paddock grass it usually is not to long just weedy with fire weed/pattersons curse etc. and that is where the wider deck would be handy. The main problem is scalping but if ya doing new estates it would usually be cut at least 4inch height if not at travel height of 6 inches (is this correct) there is less chance of scalping .As you say it is all compromise.

But as for power scag has a 31hp ( I believe a 35hp is now out ??) petrol and turbo diesel engines that put out over 50foot pounds of tourqe in a 60 or 72 inch deck. Do ya reckon thats enough to drive a 72in deck.

Yesterday I have seen the 2005 brochure and it definitely shows that the Turf Tiger does 12mph and I am sure I saw 35hp motor for Sabre Tooth. I am no expert on ZTR's but everything on them seems to be tough and oversized in componetry compared to others, am I wrong ??? I am not a Scag fanatic and am open to any brand that does the job.

The new gearbox has not arrived yet from Melbourne so still won't be on the grass till late tommorrow. This is costing me at least $500 a day in lost work. :sad:

But on the bright side is that I have to do a quote on a property tomorrow and after talking to the guy and saying that I am doing a new estate he said thats what I do ie. he's a developer and would I be interested in estate work it's only 50 2 acre lots lots :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: my bloody oath I am interested but its not for maybe 9 months, so hopefully I get his lawn, impress him and maybe bigger things later. There is always hope in times of dispair.

GregG
17-11-2004, 11:44 PM
What do ya reckon about an ex demo 2 hours supposedly Toro Xmark Zmaster 27hp diesel 72inch deck superseded model for $22,000.
Its only 2 hours (hourmeters can be changed, it was offered to me on a husky demo) but if its sustantially more it should show.
Would the motor be too small for a 72 inch even though its diesel I think so :i dunno: .
It is the Ultracut deck not Turbo Force
Also the controls are at foot level would that be a hassle??
Its a good price but as previous posts have said a 60 inch would be better at 27HP.

Tonyr
18-11-2004, 07:37 AM
The 72'' Exmark XP ....power should not be an issue, Diahatsu diesel.

They are a big thing, I looked at one the day I signed my Z588E up, nice rig! Very well built.

Controls below the seat...never could understand that! Stupid idea!

They usually sell for 28K, early this year they were clearing them out for 24K, so your demo is a good price, but a demo can be damaged too, check it out throughly! Very bloody throughly!
Toro bought one of these diesel exmark XP's down for a council trial early this year, idiot council opperators like to break things, big joke, so at top speed veered of course and ran straight into light pole to see if anything would break! Nothing did, but rep was fuming, mowers are not meant to be abused like this, now what if that caused not so obvious probs....

Council ended up leasing a Toro, model below mine, petrol. no EFI.

Research the exmark diesel on lawnsite, not long ago they were talking about em, they are not as nimble as petrol, heavier, harder to stop, engine brake slower, not as responsive etc, etc.

Built for big jobs, parks etc, but remember, bigger the deck, the more they scalp and more hp needed.

I know on paper the figures sound great re productivity etc, and a 72'' er certainly is a brute, but in our world those productivity specs are B.S, we don't have the conditions the Americans do.

The XP would last you a long time, their deck is great in America, but still it is 72''.....and you know my thoughts about that.

But if you can get enough development/parks work than why not, but ya average domestic acreage, even a 60'' is an overkill at times.

Honestly Greg, for the money for deveoper work, buy a 2nd hand tractor, air con cab and slasher for under 20K, you can always run finish mower behind the tractor on the good stuff and slash the rough stuff, and it will last longer!

All you need is a good 52 or 60'' mower, this will be suffice, believe me, and say a 60hp tractor and slasher, then you have it all covered.

I may not give you the feedback you want to hear, sorry, I'm only being honest with you, I own a 60'' mower now, I know it's strengths and weaknesses, a 72'' is an overkill, I work in with a slasher contractor, we cover a lot of scope, if I didn't just buy a block of land I'd be buying his biz off him, running slasher is more profitable than mowing and tractor lasts forever, and air conditioned!

Talk to Russ, he has 2 scags, just bought a tractor I heard, and he only is doing developer work, he has been in the industry 25 years, he has done the math, must be a sound reason he didn't just buy another scag...

Those are just my opinions anyway, but you know your biz better than I do, so do what ya think is best for you.

BTW, on a mower, controls on tank or near seat is better than below front of seat IMO....and though a slasher is wider than 72'', not comparing apples for apples.

GregG
18-11-2004, 08:29 PM
Thanks Tony

You may have seen my other post about other ideas on equipment and as you say a tractor and slasher may be a better idea. So ya reckon that a 60hp is the go as that is pretty big and I guess requires a full size car trailer or similiar.
Do ya reckon that it would be more reliable ??
What is the normal charge for slashing ??
Are the running costs lower than a ZTR ??
If ya get one would the ability to use a back hoe or front end loader be better??
What size slasher would ya reckon??
How does a finishing mower on a tractor compare to a ZTR in cutting ability/quality??

Sounds like what ya say is that the 60in is better and that the 2nd hand exmark at 72in is underpowered and yes if in the 2 hours it hade been demoed that those council guys had tried it then it would be in a bad way.

Tonyr
18-11-2004, 09:33 PM
Thanks Tony

You may have seen my other post about other ideas on equipment and as you say a tractor and slasher may be a better idea. So ya reckon that a 60hp is the go as that is pretty big and I guess requires a full size car trailer or similiar.
Do ya reckon that it would be more reliable ??
What is the normal charge for slashing ??
Are the running costs lower than a ZTR ??
If ya get one would the ability to use a back hoe or front end loader be better??
What size slasher would ya reckon??
How does a finishing mower on a tractor compare to a ZTR in cutting ability/quality??

Sounds like what ya say is that the 60in is better and that the 2nd hand exmark at 72in is underpowered and yes if in the 2 hours it hade been demoed that those council guys had tried it then it would be in a bad way.


Hi Greg,

My mate's Ford is 60hp, with air con cab, 4 x 4, it is the smallest around and is most versatile, big tractors aren't always best for slashing, dunno about his slasher, probably a 6 footer...
He tows it around on a tri axel trailer, being able to travel opens up more work than he can handle, as all others have to drive their tractors and distance can be a factor.

About the 72'' deck exmark, my opinion is a tractor mated with a 52'' or 60'' ZTR gives you a total scope, a 72'' IMO is not as versatile as a smaller mower.
Depends on the work...but I'd get a tractor for rough stuff, and leave the scag for finish mowing.

----

Do ya reckon that it would be more reliable ?? Tractor will earn more, last longer.

What is the normal charge for slashing ?? $60 an hour for big jobs, $45 per 1/2 acre block.

Are the running costs lower than a ZTR ?? Not sure, yeah/no...

If ya get one would the ability to use a back hoe or front end loader be better?? A bucket or blade yes.
But must be a 4 X 4.

What size slasher would ya reckon?? 6ft is a small one which is versatile, go anywhere type, good on a smallish tractor, 7ft is very common on the bigger tractors ya see around, hard to say....

How does a finishing mower on a tractor compare to a ZTR in cutting ability/quality?? ZTR better, finish mow with mower, conquer jungles with slashers, I doubt you would need a finish mower on the tractor, just use the ZTR.

Alex Callaghan
19-11-2004, 08:59 AM
Greg,
Have you considered an out-front machine mate?

For the type of work you'r talkin bout an out-front machine would be a real preformer.

A tractor would be good too but attachments arn't cheap and they are more of a multi task machine.............that might be what you want?


From the work you've described I'd be looking at either a Kubota F Series or an Iseki SF 333.

I don't know much about the Kubs but I've had a good mow on an Iseki and id give it 9 out of 10.

Constant 4wd with Hi and Low range
Air-con cab
The deck on them lifts up to about 600mm so it's great for slashing work and it's a hydrulic lift
35HP Natraly aspired diesel
They travel at around 18KM/h

GregG
19-11-2004, 09:45 PM
Thanks Alex and Tony


BTW I finally got the Scag back today at 5.00pm and went out and mowed till dark 8.00pm.

An out front would have same ground clearance issues as a ZTR ???
But an out front is closer in style to a ZTR than a Tractor ie. maybe more versatile for rough ground than ZTR, not as much as tractor but a cut that is comparable to ZTR!!!
Issue with tractor is weight and will the Patrol pull it even if I put a turbo on it. May need a V8 diesel Ford F250, but that is at least $45,000 for 2nd hand.

How fast are slasher's ie. acres/hour ??

Can Kubota F series or Iseki SF 333 handle rough stuff?? The estate I am doing now is mainly paddock grass, but the one I am now quoting on is very rough, the builders over the road have been dumping stuff and people have been driving on it when wet.
What is a normal new esate and can a ZTR handle it ???

This is all conjecture as to whether I can get the other new estate, but I believe that no-one else is quoting or that I know that somone else is doing it but the developer is not happy with the current work standard and from what I have seen I don't blame him for being dissapointed. But I guess having a ZTR 52inch and a Tractor/slasher or maybe a Iseki may give competitive edge as I guess that most business are either a Slasher or a mower. But if I can do both that means that as the estate evolves from rough to sellable I can cover the lot.

But how big a tractor/slasher as a combo as you say tony 60hp, but that is probably heavy 2 or 3 tonnes ?? . What about a 25-35hp with a 4-5foot slasher ?? and Tony ado you mean that 4WD is a must??

mick
19-11-2004, 10:17 PM
Just to throw another spanner in the works, the business across the road from me has bought a JD tractor, probably the 50 - 60 hp. It has a front end loader. a 72" Commercial 7iron belly finish deck and also a 6' slasher! Fully optioned $50k! haaaa But what a bloody machine.

Can do anything!

Tonyr
21-11-2004, 03:31 PM
Greg,

I can't really answer a lot of your questions purely just cause I dunno the answers LOL.

The local council has 2 Kubotas now, tow a slasher and have a belly mount cutting deck, plus bucket on front, I think one is smaller than the other which looks like it would be 50hp maybe, dunno.

I imagine they would cost a lot, but very versatile! You would want a lot of solid work in front of ya though.

I'd get a 2nd 4 x 4 ford with slasher, 60hp for under 20k if you had acreage that needed slashing, if a finer finish was needed spend more and look at Kubotas and like Alex said, Isekis, they are popular in Toowoomba council.

I said 4 x 4 because being an ex farmer I've had some time around tractors in my day, my 1st tractor was 2 wheel drive, and performed like one when ya needed 4 x 4, 2nd was a CASE 55HP 4 X 4, this thing was unstoppable, and when slashing you will come across crappy terrain, boggy areas etc, and trust me, a 4 x 4 tractor is a much better alrounder than a 2 wheel drive, much more traction!

For the price of a good 2nd hand tractor I would definetly consider one before buying new, especially in these early stages.

A kubota with slasher and belly mount, wow, worth lookin' at! awesome!

in the old days when measuring up implements on tractors it went like, 1'' per 1hp...60hp tractor, 60'' slasher or rotary hoe etc...

Slashers don't eat up the power like a hoe obviously, but a 50 hp tractor is not big....and ya don't want too big, yet too small could limit your work, the most versatile set up here is my mate's 60hp ford 4 x 4, goes anywhere on trailer, cuts anything, the big john deers drive every where, and can't do trhe fiddly high paying jobs, only big blocks etc, a 60hp tractor does the lot. Also has an air con cab on too...

Smaller tractors and smaller slashers, sure, be easier to transport!

Too small though and ya might as well not bother...

Russ just bought a tractor, have a yak to him, he would of done the research.

GregG
23-11-2004, 08:33 PM
Thanks Tony and Mick

Here is a reply on the other thread:

"Thanks Mick

I will have to research for with dealers to get ideas on different slashers etc. what is interesting is the finishing mower attachments as to wheteher you have a normal slasher and then a finisher as well. The development that I am doing now is pretty smooth with some rough bits around edges and where the subdivision "depot" was. So a 72in ZTR would be great ( or a tractor with a finishing mower attachment), but the one that I am quoting on is a lot rougher with rubbish in the long grass, so a slasher would be better on it.

The big issue with a tractor slasher is weight and size, it almost means needing a truck to tow with or a Ford F250 7.3l V8 turbo diesel.

I am not sure about a belly mower on a tractor due to getting caught up on ya belly, unless ya can lift it up real high."

Grillonz
24-11-2004, 04:48 PM
To throw in another option:
Try a front mount (my choice an Iseki sf333) with a flail deck. Trimax makes one and they are quite popular on the John Deeres. The Iseki can run the 72" version. A flail mower would be tidier in the rough than a rotary & will be able to do lawns as well. The only downside is they won't mow in reverse.
Website: http://www.trimaxmowers.com/

Happy mowing
James

GregG
30-11-2004, 02:44 PM
Thanks James
Is a flail mower stronger than a rotary :i dunno: can it withstand objects such as rocks,steel and wire???? :i dunno: .
It seems that a lot of people like the Iseki and with 4WD it would be a bonus.

Alex Callaghan
30-11-2004, 03:27 PM
Flail mower is much stronger than a rotary Greg.
They can take a pounding!

Iseki out-fronts are a really well built mower mate.
I've mowed with an SF333 before and it Kicked ass and for about $34,000 you would wanna hope so!!

Grillonz
30-11-2004, 08:35 PM
This afternoon I have hit a block of concrete, wire, a fibreglass walking pole, dog bones, stones, & blocks of wood. Flail deck still fine.
Thats the result of mowing empty sections.
Happy mowing
James

GregG
30-11-2004, 09:15 PM
Thanks Alex and James
I was talking to John from International Mowers the importers for scag as they have been advertising in the Landscape Manager for their Humus Safety Mulcher. It is shown sitting on the front of a Scag turf tiger, I think it is a flail type as it does not throw stones etc and apparently if you run over a lump of wood it will woodchip it and will break bits of a brick. He is coming up our way next and will try to bring the slasher with him. He says that it worth $10k and can be spec'd on a new scag ie. no rotary deck.

But if the Iseki comes close in price then the 4WD ability has to be worth something.

James what machine were you using with a flail deck today???

mick
30-11-2004, 10:34 PM
Heres a pic of the Scag and another cool looking machine!!

GregG
01-12-2004, 02:08 PM
Heres a pic of the Scag and another cool looking machine!!
That Scag looks like the Humus safety Mulcher thatis sold in Australia.

What is the other cool machine ??? where did ya find it??

Grillonz
01-12-2004, 05:25 PM
The cool looking machine is an Aebi. It is swiis made & said to be good on hills.

Happy mowing
James

mick
01-12-2004, 07:01 PM
Just found it surfin! Looks good dont it! Probably worth a fortune though.