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Cranbourne Lawnmowing
20-08-2010, 08:44 PM
I have been using a fuel mixture bottle for measuring the amount of 2 stroke oil to add to 5 litres of unleaded for a while now. But today I bought a different type of 2 stroke in a 1 litre bottle that has the amount of ml on the side. I poured 200ml according to the oil bottle into the mixture bottle and had a 50ml difference. I don't know how much of an effect the wrong mixture is going to have on my 2 stroke equipment especially at this sort of discrepancy but will definitely be finding out which one is accurate if either is.
I cant believe that a product meant for mixing fuels can be out that much in the first place.:dean:

Andy B
20-08-2010, 09:07 PM
Was it higher or lower?

if the mark made 250ml of oil that would put you at 20-1

if the mark made 150ml of oil that would put you at 33-1

(Hope my maths and typing is right. :) )

Personally I trust the mixing bottle, here's my method for 25-1:

Pour oil to 200ml mark in mixing bottle and pour into 5L cannister.

Then pour petrol to 1000ml mark in mixing bottle five times from a 10L fuel cannister. Straight petrol stays in 10L can and 5L can is always only for 2-stroke.

Cranbourne Lawnmowing
20-08-2010, 09:41 PM
Was it higher or lower?

if the mark made 250ml of oil that would put you at 20-1

if the mark made 150ml of oil that would put you at 33-1

(Hope my maths and typing is right. :) )

Personally I trust the mixing bottle, here's my method for 25-1:

Pour oil to 200ml mark in mixing bottle and pour into 5L cannister.

Then pour petrol to 1000ml mark in mixing bottle five times from a 10L fuel cannister. Straight petrol stays in 10L can and 5L can is always only for 2-stroke.

Gday Andy Its 25-1 that i'm after but both containers are in ml so I'm worried about 1 or the other being out. Problem is ,,,,which one

Redeye
20-08-2010, 10:18 PM
Just use the same container to measure both and it won't matter - same ratio

ian
21-08-2010, 12:30 AM
try using a medicine cup to check i use an old listerine 250ml bottle i marked at 100,150&200 ml to measure the oil then mix in the 5lt container

bellarinelawns
23-08-2010, 08:41 AM
Does it really matter if you use the wrong ratio petrol mix? I have been using 50:1 mix in my chinese 25:1 two stroke machines, no problems to date.And a lot less smoke. I read somewhere that the real problem is the temperature on the day of use. Not quite sure which was required but i think on hot days you needed more oil in the mix(i think). Some people just use a 33:1 mix, or thereabouts, in everything. The important thing is that there is oil in the petrol because the oil lubricates the engine. try using straight petrol in a two stroke machine...very interesting...the engine heats up, metal melts and bang, it seizes up.

Wattle GC
23-08-2010, 04:13 PM
As long as you are running a "Richer" mixture all it will do is be smoky and eventually fowl the plug and stop.. No harm done.. BUT run it to lean (not enough oil in the fuel) then it will cook itself and sieze/destroy itself.....Do what I do.. run 4 stroke..

63impala
23-08-2010, 04:32 PM
Man 4 Stroke Hedge trimmers aint good to Heavy and bulky thats my opionion... :safety:roll:pop worm

Wattle GC
23-08-2010, 04:40 PM
Man 4 Stroke Hedge trimmers aint good to Heavy and bulky thats my opionion... :safety:roll:pop worm

Can be and i have tried a few..I found the Husky has the best balance and heaps of grunt..It is lighter than some 2 strokes ..The attachments are reliable and the machine perfoms effortlessly..

SouthCoast Walker
23-08-2010, 04:57 PM
As long as you are running a "Richer" mixture all it will do is be smoky and eventually fowl the plug and stop.. No harm done.. BUT run it to lean (not enough oil in the fuel) then it will cook itself and sieze/destroy itself.....Do what I do.. run 4 stroke..


This is ok on a full 2 stroke but don't do it on a 4mix or whatever the shindi equivalent is, as its causes a carbon build up on the valve seats and then they don't seal. 4mix's must be run right on 50:1 with high quality oil.

GreenHaven
23-08-2010, 05:00 PM
Does it really matter if you use the wrong ratio petrol mix? I have been using 50:1 mix in my chinese 25:1 two stroke machines, no problems to date.And a lot less smoke. I read somewhere that the real problem is the temperature on the day of use. Not quite sure which was required but i think on hot days you needed more oil in the mix(i think). Some people just use a 33:1 mix, or thereabouts, in everything. The important thing is that there is oil in the petrol because the oil lubricates the engine. try using straight petrol in a two stroke machine...very interesting...the engine heats up, metal melts and bang, it seizes up.

the oil determines the ratio of mixture not the machine. yes some machines will say 25 to 1 but that brand of machines oil will be a 25 to 1 mix if you use a differant brand of oil say the husky oil which is a 50 to 1 mix there will be no damage to the machines. All there is to a two stroke engine is 2 roller bearings and 2 piston rings that require lubrication not much to it

Wattle GC
23-08-2010, 05:02 PM
This is ok on a full 2 stroke but don't do it on a 4mix or whatever the shindi equivalent is, as its causes a carbon build up on the valve seats and then they don't seal. 4mix's must be run right on 50:1 with high quality oil.

Thats right .. dont run oil in a 4 stroke fuel machine.. They dont perform well at all besides it would be very smoky..

fairdinkum
23-08-2010, 05:53 PM
The old bloke at the mower shop where i bought my shingu brushcutter and blower reckons ALL 2 stroke machines in the Aussie conditions should be run on 25:1. Not so sure about that meself......I found them to be blowing way too much smoke. So I am trialling 33:1 mix now. Seems ok so far and had a couple of big jobs on that warm day last week.....Any thought on this?

South East Mowing
23-08-2010, 06:18 PM
I run all mine with a 40:1 or 50:1 ratio & never seemed to stuff any of my equipment.:safety
Thats shindaiwa, Echo, Tanaka, Husky etc etc. Just bought some of that U-BEAUT expensive 2 stroke oil -(opti 2 from memory) so looking forward to cleaning exhaust ports on all equip after this old stuff is used and NEVER having to do them again -APARENTLY!:rolleyes:

GreenHaven
23-08-2010, 06:26 PM
what kind of two stroke oil are you using?
if it says on the OIL container 50:1 or 2% mixture then using it at 50 to 1 is fine you can run it at 25 to 1 but thats pointless as all your doing is burning your oil away and going to be carbon cleaning your exhast ports sooner rather than later remeber that smokey isnt really good because you want the oil to stick to the metal bearings and cylinder walls befor it gos into the combustion camber and gets ignited. Another thing to add is some of the cheaper two stroke oils out there usually for sale at bunnings and service stations or kmart will say to use at the ratio on the equipment in my opinion these are poor quility and use this method to cover them selfs for there products poor lubricating properties

GreenHaven
23-08-2010, 06:28 PM
[QUOTE=fairdinkum;52407]The old bloke at the mower shop where i bought my shingu brushcutter and blower reckons ALL 2 stroke machines in the Aussie conditions should be run on 25:1. Not so sure about that meself......I found them to be blowing way too much smoke. So I am trialling 33:1 mix now. Seems ok so far and had a couple of big jobs on that warm day last week.....Any thought on this

hes proberly only saying this so you will be back witha machine that doesnt run at full revs so hes got more buisness in the future.... or hes stuck in his ways and doesnt know what hes on about.

fitternturnercook
23-08-2010, 06:38 PM
I have been using a fuel mixture bottle for measuring the amount of 2 stroke oil to add to 5 litres of unleaded for a while now. But today I bought a different type of 2 stroke in a 1 litre bottle that has the amount of ml on the side. I poured 200ml according to the oil bottle into the mixture bottle and had a 50ml difference. I don't know how much of an effect the wrong mixture is going to have on my 2 stroke equipment especially at this sort of discrepancy but will definitely be finding out which one is accurate if either is.
I cant believe that a product meant for mixing fuels can be out that much in the first place.:dean:

i use a still meausure bottle put i litre of 4 stroke and fill oil up to what mix i want, 25to 1 , 30 to 1 all on bottle , mix will go off if not used up in aboutweek so been told , i use the shindiawa oil for the saw , and the whipper snip , the victa slasher i use 25 to 1 as they like a bit off oil,

fairdinkum
23-08-2010, 07:01 PM
Yeah I think it's a bit of both greenhaven.

The Local Gardener
23-08-2010, 07:26 PM
[QUOTE=fairdinkum;52407]The old bloke at the mower shop where i bought my shingu brushcutter and blower reckons ALL 2 stroke machines in the Aussie conditions should be run on 25:1. Not so sure about that meself......I found them to be blowing way too much smoke. So I am trialling 33:1 mix now. Seems ok so far and had a couple of big jobs on that warm day last week.....Any thought on this

hes proberly only saying this so you will be back witha machine that doesnt run at full revs so hes got more buisness in the future.... or hes stuck in his ways and doesnt know what hes on about.

A liitle bit more oil wont hurt at all. It just means a little more lubrication. 200mls to 5 litres of fuel I have been using since day dot.

Or just go with water ever works..

GreenHaven
23-08-2010, 08:25 PM
[QUOTE=GreenHaven;52411]

A liitle bit more oil wont hurt at all. It just means a little more lubrication. 200mls to 5 litres of fuel I have been using since day dot.

Or just go with water ever works..

what kind of two stroke oil are you using?

i do agree that using more oil in the mix might mean more lubrication but when was the last time you heard of someone that wore out the crank shaft bearings or cylinder rings on a two stroke i just think its unnessary when 4L of good oil costs me 48 and i go through that in 6 months if i was using it at 25 to one it would last me 3 months it adds up when i got a shindy brush cutter thats is about 7 years old i guess and gets used everyday sometimes doing 16 lawns a day in summer. 48 times 14 is $672 compared to $1344 equals a new whipper snipper . just my 2 c

SouthCoast Walker
23-08-2010, 09:29 PM
Thats right .. dont run oil in a 4 stroke fuel machine.. They dont perform well at all besides it would be very smoky..


Hey Wattle, I was not referring to a 4 stroke engine, I was referring to a Stihl 4mix, which is 4 stroke with no sump or engine oil. It is lubricated in the same way as a conventional 2 stroke, but levels of oil higher than 50:1 will cause a build up of carbon on internals.

Bluey
23-08-2010, 09:39 PM
I only use Opti 2 now

Fred's mowing
23-08-2010, 09:53 PM
Hey Wattle, I was not referring to a 4 stroke engine, I was referring to a Stihl 4mix, which is 4 stroke with no sump or engine oil. It is lubricated in the same way as a conventional 2 stroke, but levels of oil higher than 50:1 will cause a build up of carbon on internals.

Hi SCW, carbon build up is caused by incorrect fuel mix, it depends on the viscosity of the oil & getting the mix right.
Im with Blue...................Opti2:cool:.
Cheers Dean.

SouthCoast Walker
23-08-2010, 10:28 PM
Hi SCW, carbon build up is caused by incorrect fuel mix, it depends on the viscosity of the oil & getting the mix right.
Im with Blue...................Opti2:cool:.
Cheers Dean.


Hey Adam, Yeah mate that is exactly what I said above. Only its far more important on a 4mix which has valves to seal as opposed to a conventional 2 cycle engine which just has ports and combustion chambers to coke up.

I have talked to a engineer from Stihl and they have workshop tested their 4 mix engines for 500 hrs on stihl oil at 50:1 and on pull down have had zero carbon build up. I currently have one in my garage which was run on 30:1 and the valves are carbon-ed up to the point it wont run. Have another one of same age that was run at 50:1 and it runs like new.

ian
23-08-2010, 11:40 PM
like wheelershill mowing i always run at between 40 & 50:1 using an oil that meets or exceeds JASO FC or FD or iso legd if it is ungraded ie: valvoline cheap 2 stroke i will use this at 25:1 but i only use this when i either get it for nothing or have needed the 1lt bottle

as has been said on here before the grade of oil should determine the ratio as much if not more so than the equipment ie:shindaiwa recommend 50:1 when using there oil [which on an old bottle had the rating of meets or exceeds JASO FC] and 25:1 when using others

fairdinkum
24-08-2010, 07:39 AM
People on here often mention opti-2 oil. So just wondering can anyone tell me where I can get it in sydney?

Bluey
24-08-2010, 02:09 PM
Most quality mower show sell it. It's thick stuff. You can buy it in little satchets as well.

Fred's mowing
24-08-2010, 02:33 PM
People on here often mention opti-2 oil. So just wondering can anyone tell me where I can get it in sydney?

Try it, u wont look back!
Cheers Dean.

Fred's mowing
24-08-2010, 02:35 PM
Hey Adam, Yeah mate that is exactly what I said above. Only its far more important on a 4mix which has valves to seal as opposed to a conventional 2 cycle engine which just has ports and combustion chambers to coke up.

I have talked to a engineer from Stihl and they have workshop tested their 4 mix engines for 500 hrs on stihl oil at 50:1 and on pull down have had zero carbon build up. I currently have one in my garage which was run on 30:1 and the valves are carbon-ed up to the point it wont run. Have another one of same age that was run at 50:1 and it runs like new.

Can u grind & re-seat the valves ?
Cheers Dean.

SouthCoast Walker
24-08-2010, 06:52 PM
Can u grind & re-seat the valves ?
Cheers Dean.


Yes they can be de coked and lapped and will be good as new, just a matter of finding the time to do it.

There is also some de-coking products that can be poured into the spark plug hole and left to sit over night which de-cokes the valves too. Stihl have their own product but don't bring it to Aus for some reason.
I have been told to try Marine shops as its also used on outboards but haven't got around to that yet.

gcsmow
25-08-2010, 09:56 PM
I run all my 2 stroke and Shindaiwa C4 gear on 25:1 and I have never had any problems like the ones you blokes are talking about. I Also have some Makita/Robin 4 stroke gear which I have put 25:1 mix in by mistake a few times and have had no problems. So I don't know, maybe I'm just lucky. I can't see how extra lubrication is going to be a problem. I live in N.Q. it gets pretty hot up here and I was advised to use 25:1 . I use a filter funnel and filter every drop that goes in to my machines - maybe that's why I haven't had any issues.

Not JAPANESE? Not interested. ;frosty;

SouthCoast Walker
26-08-2010, 08:11 PM
I run all my 2 stroke and Shindaiwa C4 gear on 25:1 and I have never had any problems like the ones you blokes are talking about. I Also have some Makita/Robin 4 stroke gear which I have put 25:1 mix in by mistake a few times and have had no problems. So I don't know, maybe I'm just lucky. I can't see how extra lubrication is going to be a problem. I live in N.Q. it gets pretty hot up here and I was advised to use 25:1 . I use a filter funnel and filter every drop that goes in to my machines - maybe that's why I haven't had any issues.

Not JAPANESE? Not interested. ;frosty;


You will get a carbon build up over time at 25:1. I just looked at Shindi website and they recommend 50:1.

ian
26-08-2010, 09:28 PM
You will get a carbon build up over time at 25:1. I just looked at Shindi website and they recommend 50:1.

yes but only if using there oil which meets or exceeds the JASO FC and ISO legd rating otherwise they recommend 25:1 in there manuals

SouthCoast Walker
26-08-2010, 09:56 PM
yes but only if using there oil which meets or exceeds the JASO FC and ISO legd rating otherwise they recommend 25:1 in there manuals

Is that in the C4 manual as well or just the normal 2 strokes?

ian
26-08-2010, 10:34 PM
from shindy faq page http://www.shindaiwa.com/aus/en/support_2/faq/index.php ok i checked before posting so on the link go to fuel oil ratio 2nd from top

Wattle GC
27-08-2010, 04:52 PM
Now I see why I run 4 strokes

ian
27-08-2010, 07:18 PM
Now I see why I run 4 strokes

i am guessing you run 4 strokes so you don't have to go to the gym and lift weights because your carrying over weight under powered machines all day :)

63impala
27-08-2010, 07:34 PM
HA HA So TRue...:dance:magic:pop worm


i am guessing you run 4 strokes so you don't have to go to the gym and lift weights because your carrying over weight under powered machines all day :)

geoff
27-08-2010, 09:02 PM
i am guessing you run 4 strokes so you don't have to go to the gym and lift weights because your carrying over weight under powered machines all day :)

the very best piece of advice you have quoted mate ..good onya

SouthCoast Walker
27-08-2010, 09:06 PM
i am guessing you run 4 strokes so you don't have to go to the gym and lift weights because your carrying over weight under powered machines all day :)


And spending his weekends doing oil changes ;frosty;

Bluey
27-08-2010, 09:38 PM
Now boys..that was harsh. If he wants to be a big armed oil changing 4 stroker it really is his choice.:dance

SouthCoast Walker
27-08-2010, 09:54 PM
Now boys..that was harsh. If he wants to be a big armed oil changing 4 stroker it really is his choice.:dance

Harsh but fun:shifty

gcsmow
29-08-2010, 11:01 AM
You will get a carbon build up over time at 25:1. I just looked at Shindi website and they recommend 50:1.

I've been using 25:1 for about 3 years and it hasn't happened yet. I have cleaned out the spark arrester once or twice and I wire buff the spark plug every 6 months and replace the plug at the beginning of the wet season. So it's just normal maintenance really.

Not JAPANESE! Not interested. ;frosty;

63impala
29-08-2010, 11:22 AM
For 1 piss off the spark aresster more power and more fires.....:pop worm:safety:dance

gcsmow
29-08-2010, 10:09 PM
For 1 piss off the spark aresster more power and more fires.....:pop worm:safety:dance

I do BP, Woolworths Petrol, and Mobil Service Stations so I have to have a spark arrester. Cleaning a spark arrester is just a simple matter of un-doing one screw, wire buffing it, blowing it with compressed air then putting it back on so no big deal.

Another thing, at the end of the day the biggest difference between some brands and others is the badge or sticker they put on the machine and the colour it's painted. So if you love Stihl and have had good experience with Stihl then stick with it. My experience with Stihl has been: Flick the switch on, Pump it 10 times then pull it 20 times and it Stihl won't bloody start!

To each their own.

Redeye
03-09-2010, 01:05 PM
I bought some 2 stroke oil at coles service station the other day, they had a sign saying not to use ethanol blend in garden tools/outboards. Their premium was about 10c dearer.

Wattle GC
03-09-2010, 04:45 PM
I bought some 2 stroke oil at coles service station the other day, they had a sign saying not to use ethanol blend in garden tools/outboards. Their premium was about 10c dearer.

Yes and especially Hondas.. Bio fuel and E85 will destroy them..Honda engines have an issue with this at the moment ..

geoff1969
03-09-2010, 05:02 PM
[QUOTE=Redeye;53035]I bought some 2 stroke oil at coles service station the other day, they had a sign saying not to use ethanol blend in garden tools/outboards. Their premium was about 10c dearer.

i was making a delivery to one of there stores the other week in the melbourne area as i do part time gardening and part time delivery work and was talking to the woman at the store about fuels etc etc and she told me shes worked for them for over 2 years and hasnt put any of there fuel in her own car for over 12 months , i aasked her why not she repleyed no comment ....maybe disgruntled employe ???????????

gcsmow
04-09-2010, 10:58 AM
Do a google search on LEHR propane trimmers. (I haven't figured out how to attach a link yet) In the states they now have LP Gas powered 4 stroke brush cutters and trimmers. They cost about $200.00 US Dollars.

Redeye
04-09-2010, 02:18 PM
they dont get great reviews & sound pretty heavy, time will tell i suppose