Lawn herbicides

[courty]

Whats everyone using?I haven't done alot of spraying yet but have a few jobs to do if this weather ever settles down,mainly clover and dandelion eradication.

[PaulG]

I mainly use Kamba but I find there's a few weeds that it doesn't get rid of but generally it takes care of about 95% of turf-weeds around here. It's great for clover, bindii and dandelion and safe to use on couch and buffalo. I'm still looking for something that will control wintergrass and paspalum though.

http://www.nuturf.com.au/new%20design/turflabels/herbicides/Kamba%20M%20label.pdf

There's a lot of options though.

http://www.livingturf.com/herbicides-from-living-turf.php#kamba

[geoff1969]

Whats everyone using?I haven't done alot of spraying yet but have a few jobs to do if this weather ever settles down,mainly clover and dandelion eradication.

hey courty looks like we both are scratching our heads over the clover and dandelion problems , the areas i work are just packed full of the stuff ......

[Cranbourne Lawnmowing]

I've noticed bin-die by chemspray is now being sold as Amgrow Chemspray. They also have one for control of weeds in buffalo and one for control of weeds in couch. So far so good with the bin-die for buffalo and other lawns but haven't tried bin-die for couch yet!

BTW the new chemspray for buffalo has exactly the same ingredients as the old chemspray. But not sure about the chemspray for couch

[m287j]

I use Kambah for kikuyu and couch lawns, Bromicide for buffalo lawns.

[courty]

Sprayed a couple of lawns early last week using Chemspray Multiweed,checked them on friday and it looks to have done it's job pretty well. These lawns are due for a cut on Wednesday,is it to soon to hit them with some lawn builder after cutting?

[Cranbourne Lawnmowing]

Sprayed a couple of lawns early last week using Chemspray Multiweed,checked them on friday and it looks to have done it's job pretty well. These lawns are due for a cut on Wednesday,is it to soon to hit them with some lawn builder after cutting?

Hey Courty is that scotts lawn builder?

[courty]

That it is Glenno

[Cranbourne Lawnmowing]

That it is Glenno

I don't see a problem with it being to soon but might be worth reading some older posts. Scotts say you don't need to water in but I'm sure a lot of the more experianced guys on here will say otherwise

[Cranbourne Lawnmowing]

Where are you Ian. You know a bit about this stuff.

[courty]

cheers Glenn,tried looking through some older posts but alas nothing hence my noob question Lol.There's a few showers predicted here later in the week,so should be ok on the water front.

[Cranbourne Lawnmowing]

hey courty looks like we both are scratching our heads over the clover and dandelion problems , the areas i work are just packed full of the stuff ......

Bin die is good on dandelion, takes a couple of sprays for the clover. Just watch what lawn your using it on. Don't use anything with Dicamba on buffalo

[PaulG]

Just a follow up to my post above about Kamba. A few guys here have mentioned in another topic not use it on Buffalo. I remember reading somewhere that said it's okay for Buffalo but not more than one spray in a 12 month period which I think would be ineffective at best.


Courty you should be fine to apply the fertiliser after the mow as it will be around 10 days since spraying. Whatever poison that was going to be taken up by the weeds will have well and truly done it's work by now.

[courty]

From reading through here and some other info I figured clover can be tough to get rid of. When I quote I include a second spray if necessary.

[Cranbourne Lawnmowing]

Just a follow up to my post above about Kamba. A few guys here have mentioned in another topic not use it on Buffalo. I remember reading somewhere that said it's okay for Buffalo but not more than one spray in a 12 month period which I think would be ineffective at best.


Courty you should be fine to apply the fertiliser after the mow as it will be around 10 days since spraying. Whatever poison that was going to be taken up by the weeds will have well and truly done it's work by now.

Paul . I'm pretty sure that Kamba has Dicamba in it and the only way you will get away with spaying buffalo with that stuff is if you spray it while the buffalo is in its dormancy period

[Cranbourne Lawnmowing]

From reading through here and some other info I figured clover can be tough to get rid of. When I quote I include a second spray if necessary.

Clover is hard to get rid of. Any part of the weed from root to flower will grow if left in the lawn. Best time to spray it is when it becomes active and fertilize with high nitrogen. Clover does not like it.

[Wattle GC]

I don't see a problem with it being to soon but might be worth reading some older posts. Scotts say you don't need to water in but I'm sure a lot of the more experianced guys on here will say otherwise

Correct.. It does say you dont need to water it in but I found the best results happen if you do..I think not watering in is more marketing hype as it takes a while to break down and watering in does start the process..

[ian]

generally what the companies mean when they say it doesn't need to be watered in is that it won't burn the lawn if it isn't watered in straight after application but it still needs to be watered to become active in the soil.i think you will find most of the fertilizers that say to water well after application can burn the grass damaging the lawn if they aren't watered in

[dave hirst]

some of the fertilizers constituents may burn the grass if left on dry, i.e the ammonium nitrate. so it is best to water it in.
secondly nutrient is only available to plants when it is in solution, so without the water it is useless.
If they say it does not need watering in it will remain inactive until it rains.
This is for chemical fertilizers.
For organic feritilizers they also need water to be available, but the soil life will also take them down and break them up, but these are not available until they have been converted to there salt form or via the nitrogen cycle.

[PaulG]

Short of digging it up and leaving craters throughout a lawn does anyone know of a herbicide that will do really well on paspalum?

[ian]

Short of digging it up and leaving craters throughout a lawn does anyone know of a herbicide that will do really well on paspalum?

don't no how good it is from experience but Bunnings sell a paspalum killer but DO NOT use on KIKUYU or BUFFALO

[PaulG]

Yeah I should have added - it's all through my backyard lawn which is kikuyku.

[ian]

you can try very carefully painting glypho if you have big areas you could try spraying these the kikuyu should grow back if your careful otherwise try digging it out i have a small mattock type thing i use mainly for this and weeding ,with paspalum you only have to remove the main crown you don't have to dig down very deeply and once you get most of it out it is fairly easy to keep under control but the initial digging can be a pain so good luck

[Cranbourne Lawnmowing]

you can try very carefully painting glypho if you have big areas you could try spraying these the kikuyu should grow back if your careful otherwise try digging it out i have a small mattock type thing i use mainly for this and weeding ,with paspalum you only have to remove the main crown you don't have to dig down very deeply and once you get most of it out it is fairly easy to keep under control but the initial digging can be a pain so good luck

Yep agree Ian Paspalum can be iradicated if you take out the first inch under the crown.The roots will die. Tough work though digging them out, if well established.

[gcsmow]

I've had pretty good results from Feed n Weed (or weed n feed) from Big W. Works well on dandelions, lambs tongue, cobblers pegs, Singapore daisy and some other weeds that I don't know the name of. Not as effective on clover though.

[Tender Lovin Lawn&Garden]

clover is hard to get rid of what you need to do is fert the grass andd get the grass to out grow the clover and the hard part there is that customers dont water there yard properly.

[gcsmow]

That's not really a problem at this time of year in N.Q. but you're right most people are too lazy or tight or C.B.F. watering in the dry season and that is why they have weeds in their lawn.

Other thing is (in my experience) customers don't want to pay me to fertilise then pay me to mow it afterwards. One of my customers lawns is about 80% weeds. I told her how to fix it and a rough ball park figure on what it would cost and she was horrified. She found it was easier and cheaper for her to blame me for all the weeds in her yard. (whingeing old bee-ach)

[Grassman177]

Hey guys, new here

not even from your area quite, but i am a lawn care pro here and belong to several forums.

can you guys get the chemical carfentrazone? that is sold here under the name quicksilver, and it comes premixed with a 4 way herbicide called speedzone. dont know if you can get it, or if it is able to be sprayed on your varieties of turf. i am pretty sure bermudgrass is ok.

you may not have this, but if you do, it is ultimate on clover. carfentrazone is like an additive to a traditional three way herbicide and acts like a booster and really knocks all the unwanteds like you mention in about 24 hrs, total death in one week.

[BugPatrol]

Hey guys, new here

not even from your area quite, but i am a lawn care pro here and belong to several forums.

can you guys get the chemical carfentrazone? that is sold here under the name quicksilver, and it comes premixed with a 4 way herbicide called speedzone. dont know if you can get it, or if it is able to be sprayed on your varieties of turf. i am pretty sure bermudgrass is ok.

you may not have this, but if you do, it is ultimate on clover. carfentrazone is like an additive to a traditional three way herbicide and acts like a booster and really knocks all the unwanteds like you mention in about 24 hrs, total death in one week.


Hello all. Lawn guy from Florida here. The above product (quicksilver) is an excellent "kicker" for the weeds. I purchase it separately and add it to manor (metsulfuron). If you're not, try and add a surfactant to the herb mix. This will increase the efficiency of the herbicide (works great with fungicides and pesticides too.)

If weeds are severe, I also add 1/2 pound of ammonium nitrate to the back pack. (3-4 US gallons)

[Back to Basics]

Anyone know the best place to get Sampra in Brisbane. I have found it to be the best thing for Nut Grass. Of course if anyone has a better solution I am all ears.

[ian]

btb have you looked at globe they can probably deliver to your door
http://www.globeaustralia.com.au/turf/products/chemicals_herbicides.htmthey have a gulff ag HALOSULFURON which is probably cheaper than sempra and they can also supply monument which is an alternative to sempra

[PaulG]

Does anyone know for sure about the residual effects of Kamba in relation to cats and dogs?

I've got an upcoming job that requires a lawn spray for clover but the client has two reasonably expensive cats who do go outside at times during the day and of course they chew on the grass.

How long after I've sprayed should they be kept away from the clover?

[fairdinkum]

Paul . I'm pretty sure that Kamba has Dicamba in it and the only way you will get away with spaying buffalo with that stuff is if you spray it while the buffalo is in its dormancy period I just use Chemspray Bin-die on all lawns on the advice ( a few years back) of the local nursery bloke. Never had a problem with it. As long as you follow the directions on the bottle. Making it too strong can be a waste of money as well as being (possibly) dangerous to the lawn. Just usually needs a couple of applications about a month apart in my experience. And you really need to get the bindies early, before they start sticking in your feet.

[PaulG]

I've noticed bin-die by chemspray is now being sold as Amgrow Chemspray. They also have one for control of weeds in buffalo and one for control of weeds in couch. So far so good with the bin-die for buffalo and other lawns but haven't tried bin-die for couch yet!

BTW the new chemspray for buffalo has exactly the same ingredients as the old chemspray. But not sure about the chemspray for couch

Just came across another product for the control of weeds in Buffalo called RICHGRO Bindi Killer for Buffalo Lawns. Similar to other products for Buffalo in that it does not use Dicamba. The active ingredients being Bromxoynil and MCPA similar to the Bromicide that Matt from Colourscape mentioned earlier on in the topic.

Anyone using any of the Weed n Feed or Kleen Lawn products be aware that they contain Dicamba.

[gcsmow]

I find that Feed-n-weed or weed-n-feed works pretty well on clover, dandelions, lambs tongue etc. Make sure you get a good day and really hose the sh!t on. I did a lawn the other day with it and I sprayed each area twice and got a pretty good result.

Let's go SPRAY some grass. :boxer:


hey courty looks like we both are scratching our heads over the clover and dandelion problems , the areas i work are just packed full of the stuff ......

[Cranbourne Lawnmowing]

Does anyone know for sure about the residual effects of Kamba in relation to cats and dogs?

I've got an upcoming job that requires a lawn spray for clover but the client has two reasonably expensive cats who do go outside at times during the day and of course they chew on the grass.

How long after I've sprayed should they be kept away from the clover?

Bloody pet owners can be a pain in the grass when it comes to poisons in the garden. A dog would have to drink a litre of diluted roundup just to make it sick. If you want to be on the safe side just don't let pets or children go near it until it dries.
I remember a member on these forums talking about it and the info came from a vet and I got the same response from someone that works as a poisons expert.

But for gods sake dont let animals or children get near undiluted poison.

[Tender Lovin Lawn&Garden]

Bloody pet owners can be a pain in the grass when it comes to poisons in the garden. A dog would have to drink a litre of diluted roundup just to make it sick. If you want to be on the safe side just don't let pets or children go near it until it dries.
I remember a member on these forums talking about it and the info came from a vet and I got the same response from someone that works as a poisons expert.

But for gods sake dont let animals or children get near undiluted poison.

you mean undiluted and it was me i forgot the quality the vet said exactly but it was quite a bit they would have to drink 100s of liters of what we spray.

[PaulG]

I rang the tech-info departmjent at Nufarm and the guy said basically the same thing, which is what I thought anyway.

Basically keep animals away from it until it drys. When used for agriculture however there is a 7 day with-holding period for grazing. Obviously cattle are eating much larger quantities though.

The other thing I've been looking into is a mixture of Suphate of Ammonia and Iron Sulphate. You can either mix it in equal quantities with dry sand and sprinkle on the weed infested areas or mix it in water and spray on. Iron Sulphate has its own toxic risks though too.

[DavidS]

Here is a Fact shet for Dicamba (Kamba). Won't affect animals if used at correct rate. Smell might though.
http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/dicamba_gen.pdf

[dean]

I have been using Almicide which is basically the same as Kamba,, but about $25 cheaper per 5L Cannister. works a dream.

[Cranbourne Lawnmowing]

Going to a clients house tomorrow to have a look at some weeds in her lawn that sound like broad leaf weeds and bindi.
She did say that there is a lot of moss growing in the lawn which I have seen in every second lawn lately. Explained that the moss is growing because the soil is constantly damp. What I don't know is whether it can become a problem. Will sort out the broad leaf weeds and bindi with chemspray.
Does anyone have anything to say about the moss, is it something I should be getting concerned about?

[PaulG]

I read a note once from one of the Gardening Australia presenters that moss can be killed overnight by an application of iron sulphate mixed in water - about 2 tablespoons to 4 litres or thereabouts. The iron sulphate will actually benefit the grass though.

Moss itself is a huge issue but it is a symptom of the lawn being in less than ideal condition. Constant moisture, poor grass growth, excess shade, soil compaction/aeration can all contribute.

[Grassman177]

What is bindi?

[PaulG]

It's a low spreading lawn weed that has a nasty little prickle in it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bindii

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=bindii&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=WUf&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=aGNETv31D6jZmAWToPTDCQ&ved=0CDgQsAQ&biw=1296&bih=817

[PaulG]

Moss itself is a huge issue

Whoops. I made a mistake here. Should have said "ISN'T" a huge issue.

[imoww]

What's a good weed killer for Sir Walter buffalo?
Im just pulling the weeds and roots out by hand. Any ideas?

[63impala]

A seltive weed killer or just clyso 360_450_550....:magic

[dean]

http://www.herbiguide.com.au/Labels/24DAM625_52904-0110.PDF

[Dogz]

Hey mate, I'm new on here - first post!
What sort of weeds? Grasses or broadleaf? Can you identify them? All the selective broadleaf weeders will tell you on the label if safe on buffalo.
I use a product made by Barmac called Broadleaf Weeder (ironically!) but not sure on domestic availability. Off the top of my head I think the actives are mcpa, mecoprop and dicamba... I think!
Good luck.

[dean]

sorry the amacide is "not recommended" on Sir Walter

[m287j]

Bin-die works well, it's a Barmac product from memory. I buy it direct from Globe, works brilliant on Sir Walter.

[courty]

I've always been under the impression that Buffalo and Dicamba are a no no.
http://www.barmac.com.au/brochures/BROA_HO_BR.pdf

[fairdinkum]

I've always been under the impression that Buffalo and Dicamba are a no no.
http://www.barmac.com.au/brochures/BROA_HO_BR.pdfI have always used Bin-die. Never had a problem with it. It even says safe for buffalo on the label these days.

[Dogz]

Re: dicamba, I thought the same, Kamba M has twice the amount of dicamba in it and seems to burn Buffalo and some couch. However broadleaf weeder is fine in my experience on buffalo and couch. Of course like anything off label - or sometimes even on label you'd be mad to take advice without trailing a small patch first.
Can take a photo of a small patch of buffalo I sprayed about 2 weeks ago if you like...
Cheers.

[Leon241]

Do you guys control broad leaf weeds in lawns for one off jobs or casual customers over winter? Now that the grass is slow, does this mean you have less work over the colder months?

At the moment, I'm mostly mowing dandelion heads and other weed seeds, although once the weeds are under control the grass should grow better.

Does spraying reduce your mowing work over winter? I know there are other things that can be done over winter as well.

[GardenGuy]

Glad to cut or control any plant organism - for a fee.

Cheers - GardenGuy.

[HPM]

When the lawns go to 4 weeks I usually offer a lawn weed spray to my customers for the same price as a mow and do it between mows.
It's a good idea to do one at the start of winter for broadleaf and one at the end of winter/start of spring for bindii/broadleaf.
It just gives you 2 more visits per year which is extra $$$.

[urbanpatch]

plus its a weednfeed so should encourage a small amount of growth, esp. winter grasses

[HPM]

I try not to use weed and feed.
You can charge for a lawn weed ( twice per year) then again for a slow release lawn feed (usually every 10 weeks) but if you do both at the same time you can't charge double...

[GardenGuy]

Also, if you look into weed'n'feed products, you will find that their N:P:K ratios are not right for use at most times of year.

For example, using that as an autumn fertilisation would cause some pretty interesting damage or possible outright lawn death. Places like Canada are seriously considering, if they haven't already passed regulations, outlawing that kind of product for some fairly reasonable 'green' reasons.

Cheers - GardenGuy.

[PaulG]

It's mainly home owners to blame for overuse and incorrect use of such products (as was found in the North American research as far back as 2005) and contractors just got lumped into the same lot and suffered the same criticisms. The main reason Canada banned it is because of the Dicamba and MCPA (which is the same chemical family as 2,4-D). Any lawnie or gardener worth his salt should know how to spray, what to use, and when, for specific results rather than a blanket spray with weed & feed but Kamba-M and similar sprays for broadleaf weeds contain the same chemicals so I wonder how long before we see a push here as well to ban them.

I think your comment about 'outright lawn death' is a bit extreme though.

[ernielg]

I use a product called Methar Tri Kombi works really well on most broadleaf and oxalis

[PaulG]

I use a product called Methar Tri Kombi works really well on most broadleaf and oxalis

Essentially the same as Kamba.

[sharpie]

Evening boys and girls,
Got a couple of questions regarding particular weeds that I hope the vast knowledge on here can help me with. Like most I use Kamba regularly and Sempra on nut grass and mullumbimby but on my own place and on a couple of clients lawns (I assume because of all the wet weather recently) broad leaf carpet grass is getting a bit of a foot hold in the blue couch. In green couch lawns I have great success with trinoc (DSMA) but the bottle states this will kill the blue couch also, an assisstant green keeper mate (who put me on to the trinoc)suggested playing around with the mixing rates and finding a point at which the blue couch will yellow but come back and after a couple of hits the broad leaf carpet is no more. Even on my place this makes me a bit nervous so do any of you guys have any experience wth this situation or aware of a product that will do the job for me.

Regards,
Sharpie.

[ian]

carpet grass is supposed to be susceptible to Bromoxynil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromoxynil and DSMA but blue couch is also listed as susceptible to DSMA but can't see if it is susceptible to Bromoxynil so maybe try a bromoxynil only herbicide like BROMICIDE 200 on a small area and let us know how it goes
you could also try this http://www.yates.com.au/products/weed-control/lawns-selective-control/yates-buffalo-pro-hose-on-weedkiller/ it says it's ok for queensland blue and it contains bromoxynil so may work

[sharpie]

Thanks Ian, I will have a look for it tomorrow and let you how it works should it ever stop raining for long enough to use it.

Sharpie.

[ian]

there's also buffalo master http://www.searles.com.au/pdf/Buffalo%20Master%20Label.pdf and other similar broadleaf products

[PaulG]

Winter is the growth period for a lot of these types of weeds. I'm spraying lawns here currently using Kamba. Well when it's not raining at least.

It works but takes at least 2 to 3 weeks in cooler weather for the weeds to really start to die off. There's plenty of products out there other than Kamba like Kleen Lawn, Bin-die, multi-weed etc; just depends on what's actually growing and what the type of lawn is - Couch, Buffalo etc. A follow up spray will probably be necessary if it's a 'carpet' like you say.

[PaulG]

Winter is the growth period for a lot of these types of weeds. I'm spraying lawns here currently using Kamba. Well when it's not raining at least.

It works but takes at least 2 to 3 weeks in cooler weather for the weeds to really start to die off. There's plenty of products out there other than Kamba like Kleen Lawn, Bin-die, multi-weed etc; just depends on what's actually growing and what the type of lawn is - Couch, Buffalo etc. A follow up spray will probably be necessary if it's a 'carpet' like you say.



EDIT: ^^^^^^ Hey Simmo answer's up here. Stupid out of order posts again!

[Lawn Mowing Professionals]

I am getting a heap of clients "whinging" that they have clover and weeds in there lawns that have just appeared over the past few weeks.

I went to a place today and this clover blanket looking weeds (not sure of the name) were covering 90% of the lawn and were quite high and thick. A second place I did was also quite bad about 50% coverage of regular clover and the owner had a bottle of round up for me to apply to the lawn :laughing:

My question is... Can I get rid of these weeds during winter? If so, what should I use and when should I apply it?

:help

Simmo.

[Back to Basics]

Ian or anyone with advice would the both of these work in a garden situation? I have a client with clover in his gardens on the zoyzia clumps etc. Would it be safe to spray near other plants situated in the gardens e.g. cordylines, agaves, bromeliads.

[Back to Basics]

Ian or anyone with advice would the both of these work in a garden situation? I have a client with clover in his gardens on the zoyzia clumps etc. Would it be safe to spray near other plants situated in the gardens e.g. cordylines, agaves, bromeliads.

Also when mixing Sempra it says to use within 24 hours, 1.3g mixes with 10l of water. It comes with the scoop etc but 10l is a lot to use in one day especially if you only have a couple of clients suffering from Nut Grass. Does anyone keep this stored in a container, mixed. If so for how long will it keep mixed up for.

I was going to buy a specialised contained for it to remain mixed in. Good idea? Bad idea? Happy to hear any ideas???????

[seliment]

Also when mixing Sempra it says to use within 24 hours, 1.3g mixes with 10l of water. It comes with the scoop etc but 10l is a lot to use in one day especially if you only have a couple of clients suffering from Nut Grass. Does anyone keep this stored in a container, mixed. If so for how long will it keep mixed up for.

I was going to buy a specialised contained for it to remain mixed in. Good idea? Bad idea? Happy to hear any ideas???????

If thats what the manufacturer suggests, then its probably not good to keep it mixed as it probably degrades.

Why not mix up a smaller quantity? ----
The rate (1.3gm / 10 litres) is a small quantity , so why not invest in a small digital scales for the purpose.
You can pick up ones on ebay quite cheaply that have a resolution of 10mg (0.01grams) and max capacity of 50 - 100grams.
Measuring out small quantities is then a piece of cake.

Other method (not exact but pretty good for most practical purposes) from my days of yore when studying&working in science labs and you want smaller quantities than your scales can measure ...

Weigh or measure out a (known) quantity that you can easily measure and put it onto a piece of paper or similar.
Arrange it into a uniformly shaped pile or line and then divide it into (equally) sized portions to get the amount you want.

This is much better than trying to estimate say "half a measure" to mix up say 5 litres , unless the measure is calibrated.

Joe.

[PaulG]

I do what Joe suggested re Sempra. I bought the digi scales and a 2 litre sprayer specifically for nut-grass/Mullumbimby couch jobs that are on the small side. It's hard trying to estimate .26 of a gram using the scoop they provide!

I've also done larger spray jobs using the recommended application rate also but always mix up and use only enough for that job.

[Back to Basics]

As I thought Seliment, but was chasing another alternative, being lazy! Off to Dick Smith I go to get some scales. I already have the 2l spray pack. Nut Grass look out!!!!!!

[PaulG]

Having a bad run with spraying this season. Changed to a new spray set-up with the 15 litre Solo backpack sprayer and a 4 nozzle boom for supposedly better coverage. Had a lot of customers from recent sprays ringing to say only about 50% of the weeds are dying off. (Kamba for broadleaf, clover etc).

[DavidS]

Paul, you using the right dose, also are you using oil and dishwashing liquid as addtives.

[PaulG]

Yep David, correct rates, dash of dishwashing liquid etc. Only thing I can think of is that maybe I need to work on the droplet/mist size or adjust the speed I'm walking. Looks like I have a bit of spot spraying at no charge to do in the next couple of weeks.

[seliment]

Having a bad run with spraying this season. Changed to a new spray set-up with the 15 litre Solo backpack sprayer and a 4 nozzle boom for supposedly better coverage. Had a lot of customers from recent sprays ringing to say only about 50% of the weeds are dying off. (Kamba for broadleaf, clover etc).

Paul,
Have you checked / noted the delta-t values (avail from the bureau of met website and on some of the smartphone weather apps) on the days when you sprayed?
There is an optimum range of values for when you should spray.
Outside the optimum range there is high risk of drift and/or the chemical being ineffective.
With the type of weather patterns we have been having (here) recently
I have noticed that the delta-t values have often not been favorable for spraying.

For delta-t info look at http://www.bom.gov.au/lam/deltat.shtml

Joe

[PaulG]

Thanks for the delta-t info Joe. This has been my worst spraying season for long-time, possibly all time and I just put it down to the new gear. I'm always mindful of any wind and drift. For the last month while I've been spraying here it's been dry, temps haven't been over 15 - 18 degrees and I mainly try to spray in the AM when the humidity is still a little higher.

Do you know of any smartphone apps which have that info? I use Weatherzone and I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

[edbeek]

Elders Weather have an iphone app with delta-t but not for android it seems.

[PaulG]

Here we go. Pocketweather Australia.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=au.com.shiftyjelly.android.pocketweathe rau&hl=en

[PaulG]

Thinking of trying some dye to see exactly what coverage this new setup is providing.

What professional brand/types of dye do others use?

[seliment]

Thinking of trying some dye to see exactly what coverage this new setup is providing.

What professional brand/types of dye do others use?


Paul
Good idea to check your coverage with dye.
Can't recall what brand I have in shed but just use the generic red stuff (apparently veggie derived and biodegradable) from my ag-chem supplier.
To do a quick check, just raid the kitchen for some food colouring.
Mix up some colored water, put a few sq metres of newspaper sheets or similar on ground and do a test spray, passing over it (so the paper in partway along a spray pass).
Even or uneven coverage should be immediately visible by the colour on the paper.

When spraying check to see if you are getting the droplets to spread over the leaves.
If they are forming 'big drops' or globules, then there is need for spreader/wetting agent adjuvant.
If using glypho, make sure water is good quality ...
Eg farm dam water with suspended clay (ie muddy) is well known (by farmers) to much reduce the effectiveness of glyphosate.

Joe

[Redeye]

when I was contract spraying bitou bush (sh1t!! 20 bloody years ago) we had to use salt water straight off the beach - still worked ok

[DavidS]

Paul, second application in 10 to 14 days time is sometimes recommended, so I Factor that into my quotes, the second one usually is easier as you only spot spraying. Always depends on condition, whether the weeds are stressed will also affect the success.

[irishjim]

Justa quick question,do you guys use measures stated on label?ive used bin die for buffalo at rates stated but to no effect,says 10ml per 2.5l but have used 20 ml still with minimal results,maybe need dishwahing liquid or something to help it stick?.

[m287j]

Justa quick question,do you guys use measures stated on label?ive used bin die for buffalo at rates stated but to no effect,says 10ml per 2.5l but have used 20 ml still with minimal results,maybe need dishwahing liquid or something to help it stick?.

I tend to put 80ml in a 9 litre sprayer with 10ml of a sticking agent (can't remember the name of it right now) and get good results. Just remember the mixture rates are for 100 square metres, so if you have a bigger area to spray you'll need to fill up your sprayer again to the same mixture rate and continue on.

[ian]

don't forget that it's also been winter so the uptake rate is slower resulting in a slower kill time

[imoww]

Just use food die

Thinking of trying some dye to see exactly what coverage this new setup is providing.

What professional brand/types of dye do others use?

[imoww]

How long does Bin die take to kill weeds?



Justa quick question,do you guys use measures stated on label?ive used bin die for buffalo at rates stated but to no effect,says 10ml per 2.5l but have used 20 ml still with minimal results,maybe need dishwahing liquid or something to help it stick?.

[DavidS]

I use 30ml in 5 litres and 10ml of Bio oil or veggie oil as sticking agent. I use red or blue food dye from Woolies. It depends on the growing season, it can in winter take 3 or 4 weeks to kill properly, once heat is one then 7 to 10 days will do it.
I sprayed a property 2 weeks ago and it is only just starting to show signs of the weeds dying, so I would say the weeds wont look really dead for another week or two.

[imoww]

Thanks Davids. I sprayed the lawn's weeds and a week later, the weeds had already start to die off. They were dried up and black.
Gave it a good mow with the catcher... and its looking allot better now.
Ill wait until next week to see how it looks then.

[urbanpatch]

Has anyone used Jaguar?

[DavidS]

No I don't use it. Having read the label it needs to have some MCPA added to it to get a good kill for some weeds. Better off using Dicamba or Bin-die for buffalo. I would not use it.

[urbanpatch]

I have used it on a vineyard as mcpa, though great for killing broad leaf weeds, can be fatal with drift to the vines. I think it is a contact for broad leaf like basta is for weeds.

[GQdude]

Re: using Kamba, the instructions say not to mow 2 days before or after mowing. Does anyone know what will happen if I spray straight after mowing? ie. if a customer wants a mow and spray in the same visit.

[bb1]

Re: using Kamba, the instructions say not to mow 2 days before or after mowing. Does anyone know what will happen if I spray straight after mowing? ie. if a customer wants a mow and spray in the same visit.

You run the risk of killing the grass as well.

[GardeningSolutions]

I sometimes spray Kamba directly after mowing but only on kikuyu, and I sneak it on for free only to slow the weeds down in spring to make my work easier. It doesn't seem to harm kikuyu. If the client is paying I will spray a few days either side of a mow to get good results. This allows the weed regrowth so there is maximum leaf coverage.

[DavidS]

The reason that it says not to spray 2 days before or after mowing is because if you spray straight after mowing there is not a lot of leaf left for the chemical to be absorbed into the weed. You are basically pissing your money up against the wall. I tell clients that I will spray 7 days before mowing or 7 days after that way I usually don't have to go back again to respray. Kamba makes kikuyu go yellow but will not kill it unless you over dose it.

[PaulG]

I've had a an interesting thing happening when spot spraying a few lawns lately which looks like the grass actually dieing off, not just yellowing (in couch and kikuyu). Never happened before but it seems to be the jobs where I've had some Metsulfuron in the tank plus a squirt of dishwashing liquid as the adjuvant, mixed with the Kamba. Mixed at correct ratios so I'm thinking maybe the soap has burnt the grass?

[DavidS]

Metsulfuron will kill grass, It is for use in agriculture and around commercial units where there is normally no turf only native grasses and weeds. I would not recommend for use on turf areas. I would use Dicamba or MCPA or a mix of both, not for Buffalo though.

[cylo]

Metsulfuron will kill grass, It is for use in agriculture and around commercial units where there is normally no turf only native grasses and weeds. I would not recommend for use on turf areas. I would use Dicamba or MCPA or a mix of both, not for Buffalo though.

Hey DavidS, what do you think about the use of broadside on buffalo, it has dicamba which is why I ask. I was against it but was recommended to use & assured it wouldn't cause any problem with buffalo. I have been using for a month or so now without any known troubles.

[PaulG]

David I started using it only recently particularly as an assist for creeping oxalis and vetch. A couple of couch lawns, presumably blue couch, didn't show any effects, but it has had the other result on one kikuyu and one Santa Anna couch lawn. Strange.

[DavidS]

cylo, I would not use it, but because it only has 40g/l of Dicamba, you may get away with spraying buffalo, I would not use it on any buffalo that is stressed, you might have a different result. In reality you should not spray lawns that are stressed. I use Barmac Bindii Killer, very successful with this. I do use Amicide 625 on lawns for broadleaf, I also use Broadleaf Weeder. I would use Broadside on all other lawns except for Zoysia

[DavidS]

Paul, maybe the lawns where stressed, but Metsulfuron really is for woody broadleaf weeds and as I said before it can kill grass.

[cylo]

cylo, I would not use it, but because it only has 40g/l of Dicamba, you may get away with spraying buffalo, I would not use it on any buffalo that is stressed, you might have a different result. In reality you should not spray lawns that are stressed. I use Barmac Bindii Killer, very successful with this. I do use Amicide 625 on lawns for broadleaf, I also use Broadleaf Weeder. I would use Broadside on all other lawns except for Zoysia

Very good, thanks for your advice! I have a school oval covered in bindii which needs spraying next week, so hopefully the broadside will do the job for now. Its mostly kikuya. Thanks for the tip on zoysia, Ill be carefull to keep clear of that, one client of mine has it.

[GardeningSolutions]

The reason that it says not to spray 2 days before or after mowing is because if you spray straight after mowing there is not a lot of leaf left for the chemical to be absorbed into the weed. You are basically pissing your money up against the wall. I tell clients that I will spray 7 days before mowing or 7 days after that way I usually don't have to go back again to respray. Kamba makes kikuyu go yellow but will not kill it unless you over dose it.

What I do is purely a time saving act.
I'd rather spend a dollar of chemical and few minutes to spray the bad areas than to double the cutting time during spring. I only do this on ferals and theres usually enough leaf left after the cut to take effect slowing the weeds for easier cutting through spring. Saying that I'm not going to spray large areas for free, I'll try and talk the client into that and I do it correctly.

[South East Mowing]

Clover is hard to get rid of. Any part of the weed from root to flower will grow if left in the lawn. Best time to spray it is when it becomes active and fertilize with high nitrogen. Clover does not like it.

And what sort of nitrogen content should the fertiliser have?

Need to spray for clover in some kik which the owner has sprayed previously with no results. Hate to have to fertilise it this time of year but he wants it gone!

[GardeningSolutions]

Spray with Kamba M. You should have good results. Too often the homeowner gets it wrong when spraying, especially if they use those hit & miss click-on hose mixes.

[Mow And Go]

anyone had any history using javelin? its what I typically use

[DavidS]

John, just sprinkle some Sulphate of Ammonium over the Clover and hose in, the clover will be gone by next visit. Only that area will be a bit thicker and greener than the rest so won't be so hard to mow.

[DavidS]

Have not used it but it could be as good as Kamba M, just in 10 litre bottles though makes it a bit of a pain. Kamba M comes in 1 litre and 5 litre bottles

[Mow And Go]

Only ever bought it by 10s lol never had dramas personally just after others thoughts

[South East Mowing]

John, just sprinkle some Sulphate of Ammonium over the Clover and hose in, the clover will be gone by next visit. Only that area will be a bit thicker and greener than the rest so won't be so hard to mow.

Thanks guys.

I have BIN-DIE already which I have used previously so will give it a shot then IF NEEDED will just go with some Sulphate of Ammonia. The kik is taking off so I don't want to create too much extra work

[HPM]

anyone had any history using javelin? its what I typically use

I use Javelin every year. I've got lots of buffalo on my run...

[GardeningSolutions]

I had a look at Javelin online and it's mentioned it takes up to 6 weeks to kill the weeds. Is this true? I've been using Bindie on Buffalo and Kamba M on other grasses and it seems these two work within a 3week timeline.

[HPM]

Yep. It takes about 4 weeks before you start to see results but be patient as it will kill every weed in the lawn. Don't respray any lawns. It will work.

[Mow And Go]

This season, javelin worked in 3 to 4 for me.

[PaulG]

Anyone come across black oats/wild oats in lawns. I think I've put up pics somewhere before. Was told by an agronomist to treat it like Winter grass but I call BS. It's everywhere at the moment and I still can't find a lawn-compatible selective herb to kill it.

[GardeningSolutions]

Yep. come across wild oats. I pull them if the lawn is good and regular mow. It's like wintergrass in kikuyu, you're kinda screwed. Have'nt found a spray that won't harm the grass. Had a golf course supt tell me once that they use diluted roundup to get rid of these weeds in couch grass. But only in winter when the couch is dormant.

[PaulG]

I pull them out by hand too if there's only a few but sprayed a lawn yesterday that was such a mixed bag. It's wasn't a reg client and a don't mow it. It had couch, kikuyu and buffalo in parts too, and every imaginable weed plus paspalum and the wild oats. Had to inform the client that the oats and paspalum would still be there after other weeds started dieing and that the small sections of buff in amongst the other grasses would die off too. (As I used Kamba M due to the bulk of the lawn being couch.)

[NLALM]

Yep. come across wild oats. I pull them if the lawn is good and regular mow. It's like wintergrass in kikuyu, you're kinda screwed. Have'nt found a spray that won't harm the grass. Had a golf course supt tell me once that they use diluted roundup to get rid of these weeds in couch grass. But only in winter when the couch is dormant.

Mate that's true about the round up , it works really well but you have to it as you said when the couch is dormant, and you have to know the rates, a little over and it could get messy if you nuke someones lawn

[GardeningSolutions]

Back when I was with VIP we had a new lawnie spray a clients kikuyu lawn, 400m2 with zero (by mistake) thinking that was ok to get rid of the broadleaf weeds. The whole lawn died. What a **** storm that caused. The manager made him go there and water the lawn twice a week until it grew back.

[cylo]

Back when I was with VIP we had a new lawnie spray a clients kikuyu lawn, 400m2 with zero (by mistake) thinking that was ok to get rid of the broadleaf weeds. The whole lawn died. What a **** storm that caused. The manager made him go there and water the lawn twice a week until it grew back.

Im surprised if it grew back? I was under the believe that once grass is killed with chemical its dead, so the only thing that will grow back will be various weeds and maybe a few areas that didn't get hit with the zero enough to kill it.

[PaulG]

So does anyone know of anything for the black/wild oats?

[GardeningSolutions]

Im surprised if it grew back? I was under the believe that once grass is killed with chemical its dead, so the only thing that will grow back will be various weeds and maybe a few areas that didn't get hit with the zero enough to kill it.

Kikuyu and couch are very resilient and I've found you have to spray them a couple times to get more permanent results. Even then they could still grow back. That's why I recommend Kikuyu over other grasses to customers who have Kids or dogs. Good grow back.

[NLALM]

When I was greenkeeping if we wanted to change the grass on a green, say from Greenlees Park couch to Tiftdwarf couch we had to gas the green to kill the old grass. This was done by covering the green with plastic sheets and injecting Methyl Bromide gas into it. This is deadly gear and a guard would watch the green for 24hrs to make sure no one went near it.

[warren higgins]

Kamba will ruin buffalo only good for couch we use it regularly have to be v carefully on what lawns you use it on cheers
Paul . I'm pretty sure that Kamba has Dicamba in it and the only way you will get away with spaying buffalo with that stuff is if you spray it while the buffalo is in its dormancy period

[PaulG]

Yes these things I know. In the lawn I sprayed there were only minor areas of buff. The other mix of weeds were so dominant and most of the lawn was kik and couch hence using Kamba M. The owner was told the buff would die and was okay with that.

Black/Wild oats anyone?

[GardeningSolutions]

Any chance of spot spraying with roundup ? Ive looked for a chem for oats in kikuyu lawns before and had no luck. Same with Barley grass, just ended up mowing more regularly removing the seed heads and hoping that the plant will eventually die off over summer.

[PaulG]

They're just way to thick and widespread around here at the moment and only get worse as they go to seed as we all know. After a mow they do shoot back quicker then the couch or kik so with a bit of marker dye that would be the best time to hit them with roundup if we went with that approach.

[South East Mowing]

Spray with Kamba M. You should have good results. Too often the homeowner gets it wrong when spraying, especially if they use those hit & miss click-on hose mixes.

New legislation for Group I herbicides in South Australia
Kamba M

In September 2013 PIRSA Biosecurity SA brought in new legislation for commercial users of the following Group I herbicides: 2,4-D; 2,4-DB, MCPA, dicamba, triclopyr, picloram, clopyralid and fluroxypyr.

Under the changed Regulations, broadacre farmers, licensed contractors and local government users of Group I herbicides must:

Have a current Prescribed Qualification such as Chemical Accreditation or equivalent, and
Record specified information for every application of a Group I herbicide, and retain the record for at least 2 years.

Home gardeners, lifestyle property owners and industrial site users are exempted from the above requirements. Note that lifestyle property owners are NOT exempted if they apply Group I herbicide through a boomsprayer.

[GardeningSolutions]

Cheers for that. I better get on board, or find a broadleaf spray that's not group I.

[NLALM]

782278237824Picked up 5 litres of embargo today I will keep you posted on how it goes, rates are 50mls per 100 square metres.Also a bit of light reading

[NLALM]

Guys for those of you using javelin or spearhead, if you look on the turf culture website, they have one called bow and arrow which is the same thing and comes in 5 litres, so the guys who haven't tried it because you had to buy 10 litres might give the 5 litres a go. I will tell you next week what it costs ,I have some ordered and some wetting agent

[irishjim]

Anyone find bin die on clover tends to work for that season or bit longer and clover comes back again the next year in the same spot?

[PaulG]

Yep, because of seeds already in the soil.

[fairdinkum]

Yep, because of seeds already in the soil. Yeah you gotta get clover before if flowers. But I also remember reading..maybe on the forum somewhere...that any small part of the plant can sprout a new plant. Is this true?

[PaulG]

Spot on. That's what the 'repens' means in Trifolium repens (creeping and rooting stems). Each clover plant (from seed) is able to spread via stolon growth to thicken and multiply but the herbicide will still kill it. Trick is getting the spraying done before the clover flowers and sets seed. Seeds can stay viable for well over 10 years.

[djkgrounds]

I really need a hebicide that will kill grasses but not small grevilleas and Myoporum parvifolium. one of my regulars gardens have become infested with grass, I dont want to spray round up as It will kill everything. The grevilleas are less than 1mt tall.

[brett73]

I was told to use Fusilade, by a landscape gardener, who helped me quote a job with a similar situation. I haven't tried it yet, as they decided not to go ahead with the works. Maybe one of the other guys can let us know if it's ok?

[DavidS]

Yes Fusilade will but I would still be very careful and try not to get it on to much of the leaf of the other plants. Bloody expensive stuff tho. If there is any Kikuyu in the garden then forget it. Hand paint the Kikuyu, I use a weeding wand. I have used Monument before but it's bloody expensive to, $150.00 for 100ml and really only any good if you spray it on the Kikuyu in Autumn, two treatments 28 days apart. I had another chemical which only kills grasses but I can't remember the name of it, it was good on grass but not much chop on Kikuyu, would suppress it and eventually kill it if you gave it enough doses of a time period. All these chemicals you have to be precise with measurements otherwise you can kill the non targeted plants if you over dose.

[imoww]

I used bin-die on a clients lawn to get rid of the bindis.
But 2 weeks later she said the bindis are growing more???
Any ideas on getting rid of the bindis?
I was thinking if tripling the dosage of bin-due

I mainly use Kamba but I find there's a few weeds that it doesn't get rid of but generally it akes care of about 95% of turf-weeds around here. It's great for clover, bindii and dandelion and safe to use on couch and buffalo. I'm still looking for something that will control wintergrass and paspalum though.

http://www.nuturf.com.au/new%20design/turflabels/herbicides/Kamba%20M%20label.pdf

There's a lot of options though.

http://www.livingturf.com/herbicides-from-living-turf.php#kamba

[Scooby Steve]

I used bin-die on a clients lawn to get rid of the bindis.
But 2 weeks later she said the bindis are growing more???
Any ideas on getting rid of the bindis?
I was thinking if tripling the dosage of bin-due

Did you spray as directed? A lot of people don't spray enough on, read the spray rates and try it again. It's good stuff and usually works well. Did it rain or get water on it after application?

[imoww]

Yeah scion, I don't think I sprayed enough on.
Didn't rain for a week after application

[DavidS]

Also check the batch date, if it is 2 or 3 years old, it can lose it's effectiveness. I have also found that you need to be precise with your measurements. Also make certain that you wet the weed, don't travel to fast whilst applying chemical.

[PaulG]

You really have to get your spray rates correct. Calibrate your spray gear, know how many mls or litres it puts out for a given time over a given area. This includes how fast (slow) you'll have to walk over the area you are spraying given its size.

[seliment]

You really have to get your spray rates correct. Calibrate your spray gear, know how many mls or litres it puts out for a given time over a given area. This includes how fast (slow) you'll have to walk over the area you are spraying given its size.

+1
And measure out the chemical accurately (get a small electronic balance which will weight to 1/100 of a gram or better --- cost only $10 or so on evilbay for small quantities such as Brushoff).
Finally -- READ and FOLLOW the instructions.

Joe

[NLALM]

Don't triple the dose you will kill the lawn. Do what most don't, READ THE LABEL.

[Arfa Brayne]

I used bin-die on a clients lawn to get rid of the bindis.
But 2 weeks later she said the bindis are growing more???
Any ideas on getting rid of the bindis?
I was thinking if tripling the dosage of bin-due

It sounds a bit basic, but Bin-die works way better with the watering can method - especially if the ground is dry. Dunno why - but it does.
Follow the application rate per square metres especially on buffalo. If there is clover, give the clover an application first before doing the entire lawn (so the clover gets a double dose)
For your customer, the bindis will seem to be getting worse as they die and the seed balls dry out. It means you've sprayed the bindies a bit late.
For Illawarra NSW I spray late September and mid December. This hits the spring growth and the late stragglers. Do this 3 years in a row and you'll have eliminated 95% of the bindies.
Best way to completely rid bindies from the lawn is to make the lawn healthy. Light fertilise spring and autumn, keep at least 2 inches of depth in the grass. Once the bindies are gone mulch mow every so often.
Best way to grow a mighty crop of bindies is to mulch mow nice and short every 2 weeks year round - like a lot of grassies do.

[Arfa Brayne]

Back when I was with VIP we had a new lawnie spray a clients kikuyu lawn, 400m2 with zero (by mistake) thinking that was ok to get rid of the broadleaf weeds. The whole lawn died. What a **** storm that caused. The manager made him go there and water the lawn twice a week until it grew back.

I had a customer decide to save a few bucks on a weed & feed.
I'd quoted to use the granules (iron and sulphate of ammonia), but she spotted the $5 clip on hose type (with dicamba) at bunnies and thought she'd DIY.
The lawn was $4 grand worth of new Sir Walter
She saved about $75 by DIY her own weed and feed.
After the dead lawn was ripped up and replaced she never again even questioned any price or recommendation I gave her.

[SM MOWING]

Had just installed a new 50sqm lawn for a customer, mowed a few times over the next few months, she called me one day to say that she was worried that the lawn was going patchy yellow, so I go and have a look, turned out she had sprayed the weeds in the lawn with zero........ looked like a green and spotty yellow leopard!

[NLALM]

Had just installed a new 50sqm lawn for a customer, mowed a few times over the next few months, she called me one day to say that she was worried that the lawn was going patchy yellow, so I go and have a look, turned out she had sprayed the weeds in the lawn with zero........ looked like a green and spotty yellow leopard!

Its amazes me how many stupid people there are around when it comes to spraying lawns. Its ok if they stuff it up but imagine what would happen if it was you who done that to the lawn.. I mow a doctors surgery, and the old bloke next door gets me to mow his yard as well, he is a good bloke and I don't mind working for him, but he sprayed his lawn and the doctors with weed and feed, well that's what he said it was, this was a few months ago, and today you would be lucky to find 5 blades of green grass on either lawn, I just said can you leave the spraying to me from now on.

[brett73]

I had a customer, that got a bottle of hose on weed and feed, but after reading the instructions, decided to take it back as her lawn was mainly clover, when she looked at it :( Her lawn is supposed to be Couch.

[NLALM]

8000 Good stuff but not cheap

[seliment]

8000 Good stuff but not cheap

Maybe its good, but won't do much for the weeds (if used as per this discussion topic -- lawn herbicides).
Better to have it under 'lawn insecticides' topic :)

Joe

[NLALM]

I thought most guys would have the intelligence to know the difference between the two

[PaulG]

Pricey Mark?

14141414

[steveo]

anyone know what works best on creeping oxalis in a rye/fescue lawn? Tried dicamba and mcpa but not with much success.

[seliment]

anyone know what works best on creeping oxalis in a rye/fescue lawn? Tried dicamba and mcpa but not with much success.
n
The following may give you some guidance / inspiration / base for further research
You might like to read a bit more about Brushoff which is of the sulphonyl urea group and in my experience does little harm to grasses (but is fatal to ferns) and will deal with broadleaf weeds and weeds that have bulbs such as Angled Onion. Most of these Ag chemise are granules and used at very low rates so you need an electronic scales capable of weighing less than a gram accurately.
Same applies to "Glean" (chlorsulphuron) and it's relatives referred to below.

Joe
---------

http://www.herbiguide.com.au/Descriptions/hg_Fingerleaf_Oxalis.htm

Sulfonyl urea herbicides and diuron usually provide the best control.*
For spot spraying, 0.1 g metsulfuron(600g/kg) or 0.2 g chlorsulfuron(750g/kg) plus 25 mL wetting agent in 10 L water applied when the plants are actively growing provides good control. Repeat this if regrowth appears.*
100 mL glyphosate(450g/L) in 10 L of water when the plants are young and actively growing can be used where no residual action is desired.*
50 mL diuron(500g/L) in 10 L of water will kill plants and leaves a soil residue to help control corms or seeds germinating after spraying. Diuron can damage many species of trees and native plants and should not be applied above the root zone of desirable plants or where water flows may take it to the root zone of desirable plants.
For broadacre spraying use 20 g/ha chlorsulfuron(750g/kg) plus 0.25% wetting agent. Logran and Spinnaker are also useful and generally cause less damage to native species where overall spraying is necessary.
It usually takes 3 or more years to achieve high levels of control.
300 mL/ha Spinnaker® controls O. purpurea in pasture and 50 g/ha Logran® controls O. glabra wheat. These products will probably also kill other Oxalis species.



http://www.herbiguide.com.au/Descriptions/hg_Soursob.htm

http://www.theturffarm.com.au/blogs/soursobs/
For your lawn, a successful point of attack is to purchase a selective broadleaf herbicide, such as Amgrow Sir Walter Buffalo Weed Control, which contains Bromoxynil, a nitrile herbicide, and MCPA (methyl chlorophenoxyacetic acid), a phenoxy herbicide. This product, produced specifically for Sir Walter lawns, attacks oxalis, as well as bindii, clover and dandelion but is still safe to use on other varieties of lawn, including couch and kikuyu. More than one application may be required for clover control. If so, ensure the treatments are spaced two weeks apart to let the herbicide soak in around the roots and bulbs of the weed.I

[GardeningSolutions]

http://www.theturffarm.com.au/blogs/soursobs/
For your lawn, a successful point of attack is to purchase a selective broadleaf herbicide, such as Amgrow Sir Walter Buffalo Weed Control, which contains Bromoxynil, a nitrile herbicide, and MCPA (methyl chlorophenoxyacetic acid), a phenoxy herbicide. This product, produced specifically for Sir Walter lawns, attacks oxalis, as well as bindii, clover and dandelion but is still safe to use on other varieties of lawn, including couch and kikuyu. More than one application may be required for clover control. If so, ensure the treatments are spaced two weeks apart to let the herbicide soak in around the roots and bulbs of the weed.I[/QUOTE]

Another name for the same chemical is BIN DIE. Been around for years, a touch more expensive than general selective broadleaf herbicides but one of the few safe ones to apply to Buffalo lawn varieties.

[steveo]

sounds like BIN DIE and brushoff are both worth having. Metsulfron aint cheap . 200grams would last me about 2 or 3 generations of kids. Bulk at the thought of forking out $50 so I can use 0.1gram. I guess it has other uses.

[seliment]

sounds like BIN DIE and brushoff are both worth having. Metsulfron aint cheap . 200grams would last me about 2 or 3 generations of kids. Bulk at the thought of forking out $50 so I can use 0.1gram. I guess it has other uses.

Shop around - DuPont have a 40gm pack of Brushoff
http://www.dupont.com.au/content/dam/assets/industries/agriculture/assets/Label_BrushOff_13.pdf
However, if typical of Ag chem small pack pricing, you pay a big premium for small packs and it might cost almost as much as a 200gm bottle.

BEWARE
As these are powerful herbicides, always read the instructions carefully and particularly take note of and follow the instructions for cleaning / decontaminating your spray equipment of residues
Carryover / side effects on your next job may not be wanted!
Joe.

[steveo]

What is the most cost effective once a year weed killer to use on crushed granite areas. I tried bantox but $30 to make 20 litres of spray seems excessive. Is there a more economical alternative?

[seliment]

What is the most cost effective once a year weed killer to use on crushed granite areas. I tried bantox but $30 to make 20 litres of spray seems excessive. Is there a more economical alternative?


How big is the area to be treated?

You might have a look at Nufarm Arsenal Express.
Other possibilities are a mix of Atrazine and Amitrole
(used to be avail pre blended as trade names such as Fyrbar and Grays Total Weeder).
These are Ag / Industrial use herbicides so may not be avail in small packs (eg under 5 litres).

With all of these type of long term acting / residual herbicides, read the instructions carefully as they can have long term residual actions and can leach / migrate with water movement in the soil and seriously harm to non target plants/areas.
(eg quite some years ago a friend & I sprayed some Fyrbar on a (sloping) brick paved area and the chem got carried through the underlying bedding sand and some plants in garden at lower end of paving became 'quite sickly' for a time.
Take home message -- water can cause these chemicals to migrate and cause harm!
Be very careful.)

Joe

[steveo]

Thanks mate, it's more to keep in case its needed rather than for a specific job. So wouldn't want too much. The job I just did used up all my supply. The Bantox was about the right amount to have though.

[warren higgins]

How big is the area to be treated?

You might have a look at Nufarm Arsenal Express.
Other possibilities are a mix of Atrazine and Amitrole
(used to be avail pre blended as trade names such as Fyrbar and Grays Total Weeder).
These are Ag / Industrial use herbicides so may not be avail in small packs (eg under 5 litres).

With all of these type of long term acting / residual herbicides, read the instructions carefully as they can have long term residual actions and can leach / migrate with water movement in the soil and seriously harm to non target plants/areas.
(eg quite some years ago a friend & I sprayed some Fyrbar on a (sloping) brick paved area and the chem got carried through the underlying bedding sand and some plants in garden at lower end of paving became 'quite sickly' for a time.
Take home message -- water can cause these chemicals to migrate and cause harm!
Be very careful.)

Joe if your worried about the price of Bantox you will get a shock at the price of arsenal express it's a potent product around gardens better off for pros to use on large areas such as Rhodes grass control one of the few products that is considered to work on it ,your take home message is spot on to.

[NLALM]

782278237824Picked up 5 litres of embargo today I will keep you posted on how it goes, rates are 50mls per 100 square metres.Also a bit of light reading

Just a note for anyone interested, or for those guys that look after nice lawns. The embargo is one of the best products I have used, I sprayed half a dozen of my best lawns in September when I got it, and have just done them again, for the winter grass. What I have noticed is that these lawns over the summer have become nearly completely weed free, I hope it works as good on the winter grass. One lawn Queensland blue couch, that I double cut every week with a scott bonnar model 45, is the best its ever been, I also hit this lawn with the accelyprin and it has had no grub at all, its another great product just a bit expensive for us. Unless you have great clients that are willing to pay for it.

[Bluey]

Just a note for anyone interested, or for those guys that look after nice lawns. The embargo is one of the best products I have used, I sprayed half a dozen of my best lawns in September when I got it, and have just done them again, for the winter grass. What I have noticed is that these lawns over the summer have become nearly completely weed free, I hope it works as good on the winter grass. One lawn Queensland blue couch, that I double cut every week with a scott bonnar model 45, is the best its ever been, I also hit this lawn with the accelyprin and it has had no grub at all, its another great product just a bit expensive for us. Unless you have great clients that are willing to pay for it.

Thanks for the update mate. Keep us posted. How much did you charge per application

[seliment]

Just a note for anyone interested, or for those guys that look after nice lawns. The embargo is one of the best products I have used, I sprayed half a dozen of my best lawns in September when I got it, and have just done them again, for the winter grass. What I have noticed is that these lawns over the summer have become nearly completely weed free, I hope it works as good on the winter grass. One lawn Queensland blue couch, that I double cut every week with a scott bonnar model 45, is the best its ever been, I also hit this lawn with the accelyprin and it has had no grub at all, its another great product just a bit expensive for us. Unless you have great clients that are willing to pay for it.


for the EMBARGO product, all users should read, take note of and follow the instructions very carefully as to where / how it should be used ..
In particular .... (from the label)

------------------------
1. WITHHOLDING PERIOD
DO NOT graze treated turf/lawn or feed turf/grass clippings from any treated area to poultry or livestock

2. APPLICATION RECORDS
Users of this product MUST make an accurate written record
of the details of each spray application within 24 hours following application and keep this record for a minimum of 2 years. ..........(then follow detailed requirements of the records to be kept)


----------------------------


From this one (as a person who raises and sells livestock as a farming business) one can infer that there are some serious issues regarding pesticide/herebicide residues in livestock (products) from this chemical.
In particular I would surmise that its likely that if residues were detected in export products (esp) and possibly domestic consumption as well, it would be "condemned" as "contaminated product".
These sorts of things can quickly do serious damage to export industries.
As an aside, we now have to keep full records of all treatments/ ag chemicals we apply to, or expose our animals to (sheep in my case) and supply all this info in a "Vendors declaration" whenever we sell them.

Joe.

[brodie]

Does anyone have a herbicide that they use in turf areas for paspalum. The turf is buffalo, ky, couch and rye fescue. My main concern is treating the buffalo and ky, I haven't been able to find anything that offers a large area spray on solution and individually painting each plant isn't a viable option.

[steveo]

Hey Joe, when you buy a chemical from a rural supply shop how do you know if it is can be used in a domestic situation. i.e in the suburbs,not a farm area. Sometimes i read the label it just seems to have references to crops and aerial apllication etc. Sometimes however it refers to golf greens etc but not as often does it mention lawns and garden beds. What if there is no reference to the specific situation you wish to use it for?

[Mow And Go]

Don't want to be a martyr here, but when you ask those sort of questions mate, may be worthwhile doing your chemcert *flamesuit on*

[steveo]

Don't want to be a martyr here, but when you ask those sort of questions mate, may be worthwhile doing your chemcert *flamesuit on*

Yeah I have been thinking about that. But in the meantime can't help myself, I like to learn and this board is a good place to do it. Learnt more on this board than i did at some horticulture subjects. You need to be lucky and get a good instructor because else waste of time and money unless the notes are really good.

[DavidS]

Brodie trying using Passtox by Campbell Chemicals your local Chemical supply should have it, if not try Globe Australia. If you check online its for paspalum and other types of weed in Buffalo and fescue. It might make Kikuyu go yellow but it will come back fine.

[brodie]

Brodie trying using Passtox by Campbell Chemicals your local Chemical supply should have it, if not try Globe Australia. If you check online its for paspalum and other types of weed in Buffalo and fescue. It might make Kikuyu go yellow but it will come back fine.

Thanks David I'll have a look at the chemical suggested. Buffalo is my main concern as you say ky will just yellow and come back with a bit of water.

[brodie]

Hey Joe, when you buy a chemical from a rural supply shop how do you know if it is can be used in a domestic situation. i.e in the suburbs,not a farm area. Sometimes i read the label it just seems to have references to crops and aerial apllication etc. Sometimes however it refers to golf greens etc but not as often does it mention lawns and garden beds. What if there is no reference to the specific situation you wish to use it for?

Your best bet is to become very good friends with your local chemical supplier. If you look for chemicals that have a lawn situation listed sometimes there is a general horticulture situation but not as common.

For general maintenance there are only a few chemicals that you will really need on a regular basis;
Glyphosate
BROMOXYNIL
Dicamba

Sure there are more but they are the main three we keep on the truck for every day use

[steveo]

That's pretty much what i carry Brodie but haven't found a good contact on the chemical supply yet. I'm looking at the cooch selective spray and also recently got a woody weed killer. Bought a zero weed wand the other day, was thinking why the hell haven't I had one of these before. Just gunna leave it full of straight Glypho for when there is just a handful of weeds that don't justify using the backpack sprayer, but more importantly will be great for brushing on to cut stems/stumps.

[m287j]

Anyone know any alternate treatments for crab grass ? I've used another before and Globe have recommended DSMA Clear. The thing is the mixture rates of the product I have used and the DSMA Clear are huge, 250ml to 4.5 litres water and only covers 100sqm.

[seliment]

.. Bought a zero weed wand the other day, .... leave it full of straight Glypho for when there is just a handful of weeds .....
but more importantly will be great for brushing on to cut stems/stumps.

Pretty effective devices.
Equally effective / useful are plastic 'dabber bottles' which are just shoe polish bottles with the foam applicator tip.
Here you can get new (& empty) ones for free from your local council office for dealing with 'environmental weeds'. Worth asking your local council environment dept.
Fill them with straight glypho (+ optionally some dye) and they are great for dealing with individual weeds (with minimal co-lateral damage) and poisoning cut ends/stumps/stems of woody plants, blackberry, ivy etc.

[AndoTheMando]

Reviving a zombie thread here...

lawn spraying is a big part of my business... I'm only new though..
I'm getting good success....but clover is so hard to get rid of

I'm reading using veggie oil as part of my mix ...How much would I use ?

This is my current mix in an 18 ltr backpack sprayer
100mls Bin-die
a slurp of Dishwashing liquid
blue marking dye
veggie oil ?

[NLALM]

There are much better chemicals than bin die for clover

But your question on the vegie oil , the dishwashing liquid is doing the same thing , in 18 litres 50 mls should do you don't want to be to heavy handed you will end up burning the grass. I would up the rate of chemical you are using to at least 10 mls per litre

Are you just spraying the weeds or blanket spraying the whole lawn ?

[AndoTheMando]

There are much better chemicals than bin die for clover

But your question on the vegie oil , the dishwashing liquid is doing the same thing , in 18 litres 50 mls should do you don't want to be to heavy handed you will end up burning the grass. I would up the rate of chemical you are using to at least 10 mls per litre

Are you just spraying the weeds or blanket spraying the whole lawn ?

I blanket spray the lawn with my first spray....Then spot spray on follow up after about 4-5 weeks..
10 mls per ltr seems a bit heavy (180mls in my18lt backpack) .. I'm sure you know more than me :p

[NLALM]

Mate mix it at 10mls and just try a small area . Yes if you are blanket spraying its probably best to stick to the recommended rates. Are you using a fan nozzle on your sprayer ?

[AndoTheMando]

Mate mix it at 10mls and just try a small area . Yes if you are blanket spraying its probably best to stick to the recommended rates. Are you using a fan nozzle on your sprayer ?

yes, I use a fan nozzle.. I'll up the dosage when I spot spray
Whats good for killing clover ?...that's my main problem

Ive been sticking with bin-die because its safe on all grasses

[NLALM]

Spearhead
Javelin
Bow and arrow
Jolt
There are probably more that I don't know of , all with the same active constituents

can be used on all lawns like the bin die. They are much better on the clover than bin die
White clover Trifolium repens is a nitrogen fixer , so keep your lawns well fertilized and you will see much less of it

[AndoTheMando]

Spearhead
Javelin
Bow and arrow
Jolt
There are probably more that I don't know of , all with the same active constituents

can be used on all lawns like the bin die. They are much better on the clover than bin die
White clover Trifolium repens is a nitrogen fixer , so keep your lawns well fertilized and you will see much less of it
Thanks mate.. I'll get some

[Crankitup]

Spearhead
Javelin
Bow and arrow
Jolt
There are probably more that I don't know of , all with the same active constituents

can be used on all lawns like the bin die. They are much better on the clover than bin die
White clover Trifolium repens is a nitrogen fixer , so keep your lawns well fertilized and you will see much less of it

Is it safe on all types of Buffalo?

Label says this - Transient discolouration may occur on kikuyu and carpet grass and Queensland blue couch. Varietal differences in certain buffalo grasses (eg. ST85) may produce more pronounced effects and it is recommended that small areas be tested for turf safety before large-scale application occurs.

[NLALM]

Yes it is safe but as it says transient discolouration may occur . At the moment I have a QLD blue lawn that I sprayed with spearhead at the higher rate and you can see where I sprayed its not burnt just faded a bit I know it will come back , but if you were unsure could cause some worry. Buffalo handles it really well . Always try a patch before you spray the whole lawn, and make sure you shake the bottle well before measuring it out as it separates

[ian]

I believe it can have an effect on ST varieties of Buffalo neither Sir Walter or Palmetto are st varieties

[AndoTheMando]

I believe it can have an effect on ST varieties of Buffalo

ST was the Worst Grass ever designed ..I don't think you can even buy it anymore

[AndoTheMando]

Ive been trying to buy some Javelin/spearhead... I can only find it in 10lts
does anyone know where you can get it in smaller lots ? Like 5lts
cheers

[AndoTheMando]

OK.. I bought 10 lts of "jolt" (Javelin/Spearhead)

Is there anything I need to be careful of ?
Any precautions ?

Is it safe for all grass ?

Cheers

[South East Mowing]

OK.. I bought 10 lts of "jolt" (Javelin/Spearhead)

Is there anything I need to be careful of ?
Any precautions ?

Is it safe for all grass ?

Cheers

Ando, I would say by your name you are a male.
Mate you gotta read the directions on the label.:p
I know its possibly not the done thing but make an exception

[AndoTheMando]

Ando, I would say by your name you are a male.
Mate you gotta read the directions on the label.:p
I know its possibly not the done thing but make an exception

thanks for the heads up on that... Great advice .. I hope I can share my expertise with some new comer one day too...

[AndoTheMando]

Ok... I'm doing research here... it seems that "jolt" does everything that Bin-die does..

I'm guessing Jolt is the better product.. ??



why would anyone use bin-die ??

[sterlo]

thanks for the heads up on that... Great advice .. I hope I can share my expertise with some new comer one day too...


What John said is pretty much exactly what u will learn if u ever do a chem cert course, it was great advice mate

[Redeye]

l'm guessing it is bromoxynil, so safe on buffalo as long as you follow directions (and dont go stupid with application rates as suggested on another forum....)

[South East Mowing]

What John said is pretty much exactly what u will learn if u ever do a chem cert course, it was great advice mate

Missed the bit about where I should take a bath in it:rolleyes: Other than spray on a windy day in my T and shorts. Come home with a slight blue skin color for some reason:who-knows

[ian]

Missed the bit about where I should take a bath in it:rolleyes: Other than spray on a windy day in my T and shorts. Come home with a slight blue skin color for some reason:who-knows

Only a worry if you realise you forgot to add the spray dye :laughing:

[AndoTheMando]

Ok...I'm reading the label of Jolt... It seems alot more dangerous than Bin-die .. white cotton overalls ...etc

Now, I'm reading the mixing directions... Its says "5lts in 200-500lts"

Can someone who is better at math than me...and has has experience with this product tell me how they would mix up an 18 back pack sprayer ?

thanks

[AndoTheMando]

l'm guessing it is bromoxynil, so safe on buffalo as long as you follow directions (and dont go stupid with application rates as suggested on another forum....)

300 g/L MCPA present as the POTASSIUM SALT
20 g/L CLOPYRALID present as the POTASSIUM SALT
15 g/L DIFLUFENICAN

http://nuturf.com.au/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/09/Jolt-10L-LabelLeaflet_F140217.pdf

[Redeye]

l'm guessing it is bromoxynil, so safe on buffalo as long as you follow directions (and dont go stupid with application rates as suggested on another forum....)

it's not brom. .....l haven't used it so will leave it to others to advise

[jal2007]

Ok...I'm reading the label of Jolt... It seems alot more dangerous than Bin-die .. white cotton overalls ...etc

Now, I'm reading the mixing directions... Its says "5lts in 200-500lts"

Can someone who is better at math than me...and has has experience with this product tell me how they would mix up an 18 back pack sprayer ?

thanks


here it is.

5 ltr = 300 ltr
1 ltr = 300 divided by 5
1 ltr = 60 ltr

? ltr = 15 ltr

Now you only need a calculator.

So basically you just change 300 to whatever volume you like

[AndoTheMando]

here it is.

5 ltr = 300 ltr
1 ltr = 300 divided by 5
1 ltr = 60 ltr

? ltr = 15 ltr

Now you only need a calculator.

So basically you just change 300 to whatever volume you like

lol...I worked that part out by myself...

I just spoke to a friend who is a green keeper and he has given me some great information and advice, all sorted ;)

[edbeek]

Had a nice old fella tell me he bought some new fangled weed killer that doesn't hurt the lawn. Showed me a dead spot in his front Kikuyu lawn. I thought that's not too unusual, but then showed me his back couch area and it's dead too.

I asked him what the herbicide was and it was Kamba M & he assured me he mixed a 5 litre sprayer as directed on the bottle.

Later I noticed the 1 litre Kamba bottle in his shed & there was only about ¼ litre left.

750ml: 5 litres = slightly overstrength. :)

[Redeye]

bugger..............

[South East Mowing]

Can anyone give advice on broadleaf weed spraying and fertilising of larger areas of lawn. Specifically best ways and what equipment is needed to apply to these larger areas.
We have ZTR's

1.25 acres
1.8 acres
3.5 acres
5.1 acres

Some of these lawns have smaller concrete areas, paths etc running through and or bordering them

[GardeningSolutions]

Areas this size I pass the job onto a contract sprayer. He uses a 4 wheeler with a 6ft boom spray on the smaller areas & 12ft boom on his 4x4 on larger properties. Fertilising is with a small trailered broadcast spreader.

[kevinsuzanne]

Whats everyone using?I haven't done alot of spraying yet but have a few jobs to do if this weather ever settles down,mainly clover and dandelion eradication.

I use cutlass [selective herbicide] 50 mls to 5 lts water

[South East Mowing]

Areas this size I pass the job onto a contract sprayer. He uses a 4 wheeler with a 6ft boom spray on the smaller areas & 12ft boom on his 4x4 on larger properties. Fertilising is with a small trailered broadcast spreader.

Thats what I have been thinking. Thanks

[steveo]

Can anyone give advice on broadleaf weed spraying and fertilising of larger areas of lawn. Specifically best ways and what equipment is needed to apply to these larger areas.
We have ZTR's

1.25 acres
1.8 acres
3.5 acres
5.1 acres

Some of these lawns have smaller concrete areas, paths etc running through and or bordering them

Charge like a wounded bull is my advice ;-)

Metsulfuron for broadleaf. Used in agriculture. Found in rural shops.