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BLUEVBOY
16-04-2011, 10:33 PM
Hey All. Boreing topic I know ; But has anyone put together an up to date OH & S manual for the lawnmowing industry ? Have seen some posts on this topic but they were from 2004. Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks BRAD READY SET MOW!

owenj
25-08-2011, 08:03 PM
i have a been a lot of work for another industry for their OH&S, i will check up with Dean and if we don't have one I'll do up a package and pass it on for the ILMCOA members only as we all paid for the membership; i must warn you though a lot of it might seem like bull**** but that is the way things are going now.

BLUEVBOY
25-08-2011, 09:16 PM
Hey Owen that would be great if you put something together although I fear that is alot of work. I have seen some manuals from other industries and they are very complex documents. Would your manual have to be certified by some authority? Someone told me this could be the case. Thanks Brad

South East Mowing
25-08-2011, 09:21 PM
i have a been a lot of work for another industry for their OH&S, i will check up with Dean and if we don't have one I'll do up a package and pass it on for the ILMCOA members only as we all paid for the membership; i must warn you though a lot of it might seem like bull**** but that is the way things are going now.
Was just speaking to Dean about this very thing this morning. I am sure many paid up members may chip in a little something for your time !:who-knows

owenj
25-08-2011, 09:38 PM
dont worry about chipping in, to my understanding we are about helping each other here, if i get work out of that will be thanks enough.

owenj
25-08-2011, 09:41 PM
the last policies and procedures i wrote was for "Dial-A-Driver" and it took 5 months from scratch but i have a lot of information from that which will apply to our industry. i'll call Dean about it in the morning and start from there.

South East Mowing
25-08-2011, 09:44 PM
Where are you located owenj?? Many of us have work going this time of year. Let us know your area - suburbs!

Tender Lovin Lawn&Garden
25-08-2011, 10:05 PM
Dial- a-driver as in the townsville company that drives your car home when your pissed

happymowin
26-08-2011, 09:15 AM
trouble with using something someone else prepares, is if its wrong, and YOU get sued, you'd be looking to pass the buck to the author.

then where will you all be?

PaulG
26-08-2011, 09:32 AM
Anyone know if any thing came of the incident in North Queensland a while back where a woman died after being hit by an object thrown from a ZTR or slasher while it was doing a vacant lot?

owenj
26-08-2011, 12:57 PM
I’m located in Hervey Bay and the “Dial-A-Driver” I mentioned is based here.
In response to Happy Lawn Mowing’s comment; no matter what Policy or Procedure (P&P) is given you will almost always find the author will put in a disclosure of some sought because at the end of the day the individual has to use common sense ( foresight) into situations and take appropriate action for safety. If a person takes the P&P as gospel and not as guidelines then that person is a bit of a nutter. If you take them on you do it at you own discretion, and should ALWAYS take further precautions without going to ridiculous extremes.
At the end of the day it is up to the operator of any hand tool, machinery, plant or work site to practice safe work habits and ethics, as well as try to constantly manage, assess and upgrade their work environment.
Wouldn’t you agree?
But give a month or so and it should be ready. A P&P is better than nothing.

Tender Lovin Lawn&Garden
26-08-2011, 02:00 PM
Anyone know if any thing came of the incident in North Queensland a while back where a woman died after being hit by an object thrown from a ZTR or slasher while it was doing a vacant lot?

I belive the guy commmited suicide in the middle of facing manslaughter charges

happymowin
26-08-2011, 05:05 PM
alls i'm saying is that if you take for granted what someone you DO NOT KNOW has written, youre a bit of a fool in my book.

i appreciate you would do your best to get it right, but who ever uses what you produce would be doing so at their own risk, and could not be sure YOU hadnt missed something.

are you a certified wh&s professional? are you a qualified solicitor? what experience do you have in the mowing industry?

personally, i think a LINK to the appropriate government rules would be more suitable to pass on to someone, rather than what YOU wrote for YOU.

but hey, all i wanted to point out is that if you trust what someone gives you, and you get bitten, you shouldnt blame anyone but yourself.

happymowin
26-08-2011, 05:07 PM
to look at the guy from townsville who killed that lady, for example, would you want to be the guy who wrote his safety manual?

and disclaimers aside, it does not stop someone suing the author in the case of a manslaughter charge, nor does it mean that your $30,000 solicitors fees to keep you out of jail will be refunded by anyone.

the police can name you in the charge, then you have to get a solicitor and defend yourself

you just DONT want your name associated with that type of thing.

get some legal advice on the matter then talk to me, lol

BLUEVBOY
26-08-2011, 08:14 PM
Hey Unhappy mowing. All you need to do is read the manual and add any extra information that applies to your business. These manuals are always a work in progress and sould be updated as required. I find your attitude fairly pessimistic. What Owen is suggesting would involve alot of work and I know would benifit many contractors on this site......Owen how does the P&P you mentioned differ from an OH&S manual? I posted this thread in April and it has taken 4 1/2 months to get a reply. This is important to me. Thanks Brad

happymowin
26-08-2011, 10:23 PM
hey, this is a forum for people to express their opinions, at least i THOUGHT it was,

if all's you want is yes-men, then please have the admin remove my posts on the subject, and have him replace it with "oh yes thats a LOVELY idea."


it's NOT a "manual"

who's to say ANY of it would be RIGHT

who's to say if owen is over 18, experienced in wh&s and mowing, or even sane.

nothing against you owen, but im trying to say WE DONT KNOW OWEN FROM A BAR OF SOAP

why someone would use a wh&s "manual" from a stranger is beyond me.

i'll say it again, anyone who writes one of these for another person to use is crazy

anyone who takes what someone they dont know has written, and try to use it to stop being thrown in jail, their house taken off them etc, well, they are a fool too.

at least with my opinion in here, people may not fall into the trap of believing everything they see written here.

you gotta do YOUR OWN HOMEWORK, not cheat off owens

if you just dont get that . . . well ?

happymowin
26-08-2011, 10:30 PM
eg, the "manual" says put signs 15 metres from mow area.

who's to say the proper distance in any legislation is 20m. Then you get sued. But you dont hold a grudge to the author.

the "manual" - haha - NOTHING is guaranteed to be correct, so you would have to research and confirm ALL facts, measures, etc.

Personally i have contacted the relevant authority, and i got a bs answer, mowing isnt covered in any legislation, etc, but you have to still make up your own stuff. Look for the post if you want, i copied the letter into the forum.


Do your own homework, least then if youre wrong, and end up in jail or lose your house, its only YOU to blame.


Specially as its "so important" to you and you have already been waiting 4 and a half months for a free answer.

South East Mowing
26-08-2011, 11:44 PM
hey unhappy mowing. All you need to do is read the manual and add any extra information that applies to your business. These manuals are always a work in progress and sould be updated as required. I find your attitude fairly pessimistic. What owen is suggesting would involve alot of work and i know would benifit many contractors on this site......owen how does the p&p you mentioned differ from an oh&s manual? I posted this thread in april and it has taken 4 1/2 months to get a reply. This is important to me. Thanks brad

Absolutely!!!! Its just another tool in your business to take and use to the best of your knowledge and ability!!

Cranbourne Lawnmowing
27-08-2011, 12:03 AM
Personally, if I'm going to put a mowing sign up at a job. I hope it protects me whether its 5 metres or 20 metres away. After all isn't it our safety that is more important than bureaucratic red tap.

happymowin
28-08-2011, 07:57 AM
Absolutely!!!! Its just another tool in your business to take and use to the best of your knowledge and ability!!

but at best its a tool that you dont know will work or protect you when the stuff hits the fan.

dont take it for granted that someone you dont know from a bar of soap is even part way right.

imo, even tho i dont know dean, i think he would have to be too smart to have ilmcoa's name on something that could get everyone in trouble.

at best you will be told to pass that "manual" (haha) between yourselves and leave ilmcoa out of it.

NOTHING stops someone naming you in a suit, or in a manslaughter charge, then YOU have to pay a solicitor to keep you free.

NO ONE will pay your solicitors fees. Just YOU.

i wont comment again, if you havent got what i'm saying by now, you never will

owenj
28-08-2011, 10:20 AM
thanks Brad, the majority of information come from a company that i have a membership to, they service such other company such as Holden, Toyota, and other big names also like i said i have had 15 years of experience in the industry and i have am intimate knowledge with the legals as i had a work accident 4 years ago where my former employer and other business involved had to pay out a large sum of money. an OH&S manual consists of over 700 pages of which a lot of that doesn,t apply to us unless you are laser cutting thick metal or using plant machinery, personally i cant see anyone of using a big back end loader to pull out a few weeds, if you want the 700 - 800 pages you will be wasting your time.
if i was here four months ago i would have put something on then lol, sorry Matey but better late than never :)

owenj
28-08-2011, 10:33 AM
also the manual i wrote for "Dial-A-Driver" was reviewed by this company and there was only one thing to fix up and then it was spot on, but since then i have upgraded it and it is better than what they gave approval for. Like Brad said Happymowing, it is up to you to update it, and as you said do your own homework is a great example, well done that is the type of suggestions i am talking about. I am also a person that believes that if one can put the energy to seeing a problem one should also try to find a solution, anything anyone can add to it is always beneficial to all. So please send me any ideas and suggestions to add to it; i am not perfect but i will make a stand to do the best i can ... will you?

PaulG
28-08-2011, 11:48 AM
personally i cant see anyone of using a big back end loader to pull out a few weeds

http://www.indmowing.com.au/forum/showthread.php?10026-Couple-of-Palms-Transplanted ;)

ian
28-08-2011, 12:37 PM
thank-you Owenj for your offer of help if people don't want to use what you supply then they don't have to if they use it and it's not comprehensive enough for their situation then that's there fault they should have used a bit of intelligence and made sure that the free product that was offered would do what they wanted or been willing to find/pay for a product that would cover their situation so again thank-you Owen i for 1 look forward to perusing the offered product

owenj
28-08-2011, 03:01 PM
point taken Paul G but in hindsight the operators of that machinery would have had to have some training of some sought and in that would should OH&S that they would have to learn and i am talking about a few little cobblers peg weeds from an old couples rose garden not a ruddy great monster of a tree, lol. thanks Ian and Brad for your support. Look at the end of the day everyone, there is no OHS that most people know of and what i offer is a start 'only'; i am not forcing you to take and nor can I enforce it. i will be getting what my local counsel has and other resources have, and writing it to the point is is nearly ridiculous but that is the way things are going.

In other words take it or leave it, it is just a starting point for you to build on and share with others like i am trying to do.

BLACK BEAR
28-08-2011, 03:06 PM
[/B]
point taken Paul G but in hindsight the operators of that machinery would have had to have some training of some sought and in that would should OH&S that they would have to learn and i am talking about a few little cobblers peg weeds from an old couples rose garden not a ruddy great monster of a tree, lol. thanks Ian and Brad for your support. Look at the end of the day everyone, there is no OHS that most people know of and what i offer is a start 'only'; i am not forcing you to take and nor can I enforce it. i will be getting what my local counsel has and other resources have, and writing it to the point is is nearly ridiculous but that is the way things are going.

In other words take it or leave it, it is just a starting point for you to build on and share with others like i am trying to do.
Thats exactly the point of it (happy??mowin)- a starting point for many, work in progress, a little step forward, NOT burying your head in the sand, a glass half full.
If you dont get that you probably never will!!:toilet claw

BLUEVBOY
28-08-2011, 05:43 PM
Owen I expect alot of the more legal mumbo jumbo would cross over between industries but perhaps the lawnmowing /gardening details would be more specific. Would it be of any help if we suggested some point that should be included?

Redeye
28-08-2011, 08:04 PM
good on ya owen, nice to see some positivity here - people can take it or leave it but that doesn't diminish your effort...well done!!

courty
28-08-2011, 08:17 PM
good on ya owen, nice to see some positivity here - people can take it or leave it but that doesn't diminish your effort...well done!!

what Redeye said,well done

PaulG
29-08-2011, 01:19 AM
point taken Paul G but in hindsight the operators of that machinery would have had to have some training of some sought and in that would should OH&S that they would have to learn and i am talking about a few little cobblers peg weeds from an old couples rose garden not a ruddy great monster of a tree, lol. thanks Ian and Brad for your support. Look at the end of the day everyone, there is no OHS that most people know of and what i offer is a start 'only'; i am not forcing you to take and nor can I enforce it. i will be getting what my local counsel has and other resources have, and writing it to the point is is nearly ridiculous but that is the way things are going.

In other words take it or leave it, it is just a starting point for you to build on and share with others like i am trying to do.

Owen I wasn't trying to sound negative towards your efforts. Just pointing out that some guys actually do bring in the heavy machinery on occassion. I can't help wondering though if all this talk, especially 700 pages of documentation etc is a little overkill for mowing and gardening. As someone said in the event of a major incident it's not going to prevent any of us being sued.

Incidentally with the sub-contracting of heavy machinery and the machine's operator who would ultimatley be responsible if something went wrong? All parties involved?

owenj
29-08-2011, 10:32 AM
Ok, i am asking for you all to point out things like Q: what do we do when we arrive to the site A: introduce yourself no matter how fibular you are with the client and tell them that you are about to work there. this covers so many areas that you can get into trouble. " PaulG; ‘Incidentally with the sub-contracting of heavy machinery and the machine's operator who would ultimately be responsible if something went wrong? All parties involved?’” if you do everything possible and do more than your part to ensure safety on sight then the one that is to blame is the one who gets the blame. in my case i for what happened to me at work when i was in an accident, 4 businesses out of five were in the poo, i looked at who was at fault and they had to pay. My employer had to pay the most because they had no OHS in place and never took the time to do assessments, necessary upgrades or precautions.
As I said before PaulG, the OHS manual that I have has 700-800 pages and I am only making one up with about 300 pages. It contain forms and check lists but I will always advise that if you get it you upgrade it as much as possible.
If you want the whole 700-800 pages it will cover most industries and I don’t think you will need that. I paid over $1000 for it.
If you have any queries about my abilities call Rob who owns “Dial-A-Driver” in Hervey Bay.
as it is now i have 111 pages containing forms and check lists and i am only in day 3. my unprofessional advise is perform these and what ever you add to it at least every 3-6months and the daily ones daily and you should be alright,,, BUT ALWAYS TAKE EVERY CONCEIVABLE STEP TO BE AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE.

owenj
29-08-2011, 10:36 AM
and yes i said unprofessional so please don't harp on it; pmsl ,,, please read the what i produce before you throw negativity at me

South East Mowing
29-08-2011, 09:19 PM
Well now! Went to my mates 50th b/day on Saturday and got talking to his wife.
She just landed a new job 2 months ago working at Worksafe. Will have to drop around for a chat and see what info I can get!:wave-hi:

owenj
01-09-2011, 09:14 PM
any help you can give will be good mate, thanks

danz
25-09-2011, 10:57 PM
I don't know why some people are so bloody ungrateful. Owen i personally think it's a great idea and look forward to the end result.

BeetleJuice
25-09-2011, 11:42 PM
Writing a manual for this industry would be a big mistake.
It’s going to get to a situation that your going to have to check the manual before starting the mower on some jobs..
For god sake were talking about lawn mowing here not high rise construction work on union sites.
Somebody shoot the B*****d

owenj
26-09-2011, 08:38 AM
Say what you will and by the way i am not a B*****d. if you don't want it don't take it it is up to you. but you will probably want to shoot yourself if you are found to have shown no attempt of documenting safety procedures if you get sued. this manual is to help; so if you don't have any positive input then please keep your negativity to your self.

BeetleJuice
26-09-2011, 09:16 AM
When the documentation is released it gives one the ability to say hey look what i did.
When it all goes sour with time then they are nowhere to be seen or heard.
Seen it all happen before.

BeetleJuice
26-09-2011, 10:09 AM
Did anyone see what happened to dial a driver a few weeks ago on a current affair show,i guess he must have misplaced his manual.
LOL

Tender Lovin Lawn&Garden
26-09-2011, 04:17 PM
Did anyone see what happened to dial a driver a few weeks ago on a current affair show,i guess he must have misplaced his manual.
LOL

sorry what happened

Bluey
26-09-2011, 06:09 PM
I am with Owen on this. For pete's sake we had a post back about a bloke losing the top of his finger because he mowed over it trying to pick something up. Not having a shot at him but he should have stopped the mower. Then there are blokes that whack themselves with hedgers and all sorts of accidents. We have to embrace OHS and try to get an industry standard. If we don't it will take one serious accident and it will be heaped upon us by the govt in droves and you won't like it then. We need to take the forefront and do it ourselves.

Bluey
26-09-2011, 06:11 PM
Crap. If it goes sour and you have no documentation your in for a world of hurt. OHS is something you really must address. If you don't then you may see your business go south if you have aserios accident.

geoff
26-09-2011, 06:24 PM
well blue old son you are so correct..again ..lol seriously anyone that thinks oh&s is a wank think again...its commonsense and believe it or not beetle juice is its LAW
:law i do have proceedures written up and yes they are a pain but it does a couple of things , makes you think about safety and if something does happen you have a good chance to save yourself....only mowing grass beetle well last year there was a jimmie that was whippering and the head of the cutter came off and killed a child.....now you say bad luck but be buggered if i am going to court and not have all the precautions i have put in place,,,this world of today you have to cover your backside and belive it or not these safety proceedures do make you think about every task you do every day

geoff
26-09-2011, 06:32 PM
owen keep it going because this stuff could be incorporated in Deans book as well a copy to all members..even for a small fee because i do believe we need to maintain our professional level..be interested if the jimmies have such a proceedure wriiten up for the boys and girls

danz
26-09-2011, 06:48 PM
BeetleJuice get your head out of your arse. Unbelievable...

Tender Lovin Lawn&Garden
26-09-2011, 06:52 PM
I think just like bluey is if we dont look at doing some sort of oh&s in the industry our selfs than some goverment department will decide it and some tosser that has never pushed a mower oor seen a whiper sniper will make up rediculouse over the top rules which we will have no choice but to follow.

Tender Lovin Lawn&Garden
26-09-2011, 06:53 PM
I seen this on facebook today and thought it is pretty much right:--

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as: - Knowing when to come in out of the rain; - Why the early bird gets the worm; ... - Life isn't always fair; - And maybe it was my fault. Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies, don't spend more than you can earn and adults, not children, are in charge. His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with ***ual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition. Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an aspirin to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion. Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims. Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault. Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement. Common Sense was preceded in death, by his parents, Truth and Trust, by his wife Discretion, his daughter Responsibility, and his son, Reason. He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers; I Know My Rights, I Want It Now, Someone Else Is To Blame, and I'm A Victim. Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If you still remember him, pass this on...

BeetleJuice
26-09-2011, 10:18 PM
Having a second thoughts about this documentation written up by someone who has never spent any time in all aspects of this industry may be amusing.
There is going to be some situation where someone will get hurt and hold up a booklet with documentation of how to do it right.Some smart lawyer will rip it to shreds on behalf of a injured person.

Now let’s get smart and do it the right way at least.
I spent a full day being trained in OH&S where we had the first half of the day in a class room and the second half out in the field.Trained by fully accredited personnel and they cover every possible scenario. This isn’t lawn mowing,this is for working at heights.

The only way it will be an approved OH&S documented manual is when you pay for a proper training coarse,until that happens anything else is a joke i kid you not.

I had spent time in one job as a occupational first aider and i have seen what injuries are that cripple people and including death.Only proper training gets everybody over the line in the right frame of mind but reading a documented manual will not pass the test .

The lawn mowing personnel will get there turn to be trained but not by this co called comic book.

SM MOWING
26-09-2011, 10:38 PM
After going to a meeting the other day run by the guys and girls who prosicute those businesses who dont get it right, it was made pretty clear that you need documentation and systems in place to manage OHSandW! Spend the bulk of the time setting it up then manage it, its clear this is just as if not more important as counting the beans for the tax man! They also said to copy other peoples and adapt them to your own business!!!!!

Tender Lovin Lawn&Garden
27-09-2011, 05:16 PM
After going to a meeting the other day run by the guys and girls who prosicute those businesses who dont get it right, it was made pretty clear that you need documentation and systems in place to manage OHSandW! Spend the bulk of the time setting it up then manage it, its clear this is just as if not more important as counting the beans for the tax man! They also said to copy other peoples and adapt them to your own business!!!!!

How exactly does it work is it a manual this is how you should and shouldnt use each piece of equipment that staff read on there first day or is it a checklist that is filled out each time you do a job as i have worked for employers that do it either way and some that did nothing at all. Is it legal to copy the instructions in the machines manual which are often written in a way that any complete moron wouldnt hurt them selfs (for example turn chainsaw off before sharpening the chain)

glassngrass
27-09-2011, 07:04 PM
After going to a meeting the other day run by the guys and girls who prosicute those businesses who dont get it right, it was made pretty clear that you need documentation and systems in place to manage OHSandW! Spend the bulk of the time setting it up then manage it, its clear this is just as if not more important as counting the beans for the tax man! They also said to copy other peoples and adapt them to your own business!!!!!

The last couple of decades has seen a huge change in the way people work - a shift from employment, to contracting.
This has enabled many an entreprenuer to create the work environment that THEY want, with flexible hours.
Another advantage is the ability to claim a range of deductions not otherwise available to an employee.

So how does government take some of the incentive away from becoming self employed and return the motivated back to the ranks of the empoyed?
By making it increasingy difficult, time consuming and frustrating with an ever greater burden of compliance.
Records for tax, GST, OHS, super, paid parental leave and a myriad of other...

Kathryn
14-10-2011, 03:47 PM
just wondering how you can create an accurate manual on safety for all of Australia when the first thing to look at in regards to OHS is State legislation,. although most of the legislation is similar there lots of small differences from state to state. the only thing that is national that I know of is codes of practise and they are a good way down the line .
i'm not being negative I think educating on safety is great if it primarily prevents accidents and secondly helps everyone to have their papertrail correct.

Tender Lovin Lawn&Garden
14-10-2011, 04:53 PM
send me an email (danielwhipps@westnet.com.au) and i will send you a copy of one of mine to look at.

Classic Cut
14-10-2011, 04:59 PM
Google "National OHS Harmonisation" and you will find that the government has introduced a new policy comencing 1/1/2012. It brings all states into line and could be the thin edge of the wedge that really shakes up our industry. Things such as a living OHS doccument and an annual audit to be compliant before undertaking commercial work. More Inspectors conducting random work place audits and handing out on the spot fines.

glassngrass
14-10-2011, 05:39 PM
You would think national harmonization is a good thing - but it depends on the fine print.
I subscribe to the ICA - Independent contractors of Australia. I find their commentaries have a way of cutting thru the garbage and getting to the heart of matters. I received this email from them today. It's worth checking out the two links below.

Why The Simple Word ‘Control’ Saves Lives!

Hi

Good work safety laws save lives. Bad laws put lives at risk. We’ve now been attacked for arguing for good work safety laws. The work safety minister in South Australia says my claims about the bad design of the harmonised OHS Bill they are trying to push through parliament are ‘spurious’ (http://contractworld.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=9ea373fdf4e8544720687ed5f&id=26eb47b59c&e=138dfb6026).

In Federal parliament today, the Gillard Government rejected the Abbott Opposition’s amendments that we strongly support.

It’s all to do with the simple word ‘control’. The harmonised OHS laws have eliminated this word ‘control’ as the central identifier to ensure that everyone is responsible for work safety. We say that this risks creating further deaths and injuries in the workplace. It’s a risk that should not be taken.

We’ve put together another detailed analysis as to why ‘control’ must be in the legislation. (http://contractworld.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=9ea373fdf4e8544720687ed5f&id=fa5dc35777&e=138dfb6026)

We have focused on comparisons with the South Australian laws because they are current. But the message is the same across Australia and, for that fact, across the globe.

Regards

Ken Phillips and the
Team at Independent Contractors Australia

PaulG
15-10-2011, 01:23 AM
Google "National OHS Harmonisation" and you will find that the government has introduced a new policy comencing 1/1/2012. It brings all states into line and could be the thin edge of the wedge that really shakes up our industry. Things such as a living OHS doccument and an annual audit to be compliant before undertaking commercial work. More Inspectors conducting random work place audits and handing out on the spot fines.

I would welcome a national document on this but it is always going to be an evolving document. Beuraucrats will always find something that has to be updated or added to.

A friend of mine here, who is probably one of the most up to date guys in this region when it comes to training and qualifications, has recently done a 'Working at Heights' course just so he can clean gutters on single story houses.

I need to find out if this is something compulsory. Soon we won't even be allowed to step up a ladder without a certificate.

Tender Lovin Lawn&Garden
15-10-2011, 07:06 AM
I would welcome a national document on this but it is always going to be an evolving document. Beuraucrats will always find something that has to be updated or added to.

A friend of mine here, who is probably one of the most up to date guys in this region when it comes to training and qualifications, has recently done a 'Working at Heights' course just so he can clean gutters on single story houses.

I need to find out if this is something compulsory. Soon we won't even be allowed to step up a ladder without a certificate.

when the scaffolding guys where here replacing my roof they where talking about working at heights and saying it coes in affect on the 4th story but it wont be long it will come into affect from the first story.

Kathryn
16-10-2011, 03:18 PM
hey cheers fellas, guess im not as up to date as i thought i was. one the new legislation kicks in and settles down I have a OHS consultant friend up north that might be help.

owenj
18-10-2011, 09:42 AM
hey cheers fellas, guess im not as up to date as i thought i was. one the new legislation kicks in and settles down I have a OHS consultant friend up north that might be help.
Would he be interested in contacting me to give a bit of advice?
Thanks Kathryn

Kathryn
18-10-2011, 07:01 PM
she! i dunno but i'll ask her

fairdinkum
19-10-2011, 04:29 AM
I seen this on facebook today and thought it is pretty much right:--

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as: - Knowing when to come in out of the rain; - Why the early bird gets the worm; ... - Life isn't always fair; - And maybe it was my fault. Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies, don't spend more than you can earn and adults, not children, are in charge. His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with ***ual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition. Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an aspirin to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion. Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims. Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault. Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement. Common Sense was preceded in death, by his parents, Truth and Trust, by his wife Discretion, his daughter Responsibility, and his son, Reason. He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers; I Know My Rights, I Want It Now, Someone Else Is To Blame, and I'm A Victim. Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If you still remember him, pass this on... Here here! If you just exercise a little common sense you don't need a bull**** bloody OHS manual. Use your brain and be bloody careful! It's not bloody rocket science! We mow lawns FFS!

BeetleJuice
19-10-2011, 08:43 AM
+1
Were not a multi nation company just single operators.As laws and rules change that information will get past through to us in time .
Until then just carry with business as usual.

glassngrass
19-10-2011, 09:06 AM
"Common Sense" - This is not a term you should use with regard OH&S.
The legal benchmark is "reasonably practical" and "Duty of Care"
Are you doing all that is "reasonably practical" to ensure safe work practices and a safe working environment for yourself, clients, employees, contractors and public?
If so, then you are complying with your duty of care.

What is 'reasonably practical'? That depends on the size of your business, how long you have been established, financial resources, etc...

If something went wrong, can you demonstrate (prove) that you have done all that is reasonably practical?
By documenting policies, procedures, discussions that involve employees, training, etc... this does support that you have made real effort.
This doesn't mean a big OHS manual, but you should identify key hazards, their risks, how to minimize, control and avoid these in your workplace.
Less than this falls short of what is reasonably practical and could should failure in your duty of care.

Your efforts must be progressive - what efforts you made and documented last decade won't cover you next decade - there is an expectation of continuous improvement. This takes more 'brain' than pushing a mower, and is expected of all business owners, managers, directors and supervisors. The 'common' man won't get his head around this (mostly by choice) and thus shows he is not qualified to run a business - a ticking liability 'time-bomb'.

How much care you really take on the job is accurately reflected in your diligence toward the administration of OH&S compliance.
You would be wise to cover yourself by demonstrating effort here.

Bluey
19-10-2011, 07:55 PM
Your efforts must be progressive - what efforts you made and documented last decade won't cover you next decade



Now that pardon the French is c**p. If you have an activity that you have looked at and put in all possible methods to make it safe how can you do that better 10 years later. The activity remains the same and the only possible change can be people and machinery. But if the machinery change then you have to do a fresh JSA. I really think that OHWS has been blown out of all proportion and we do 75% only just to cover our arse due to negligent employees trying to sue people. All the miore reason not to have people working for you

Redeye
20-10-2011, 11:52 AM
hard to disagree with you Bluey....bureaucratically minded public servants have a lot to answer for

fairdinkum
20-10-2011, 01:35 PM
"common sense" - this is not a term you should use with regard oh&s.
The legal benchmark is "reasonably practical" and "duty of care"
are you doing all that is "reasonably practical" to ensure safe work practices and a safe working environment for yourself, clients, employees, contractors and public?
If so, then you are complying with your duty of care.

What is 'reasonably practical'? That depends on the size of your business, how long you have been established, financial resources, etc...

If something went wrong, can you demonstrate (prove) that you have done all that is reasonably practical?
By documenting policies, procedures, discussions that involve employees, training, etc... This does support that you have made real effort.
This doesn't mean a big ohs manual, but you should identify key hazards, their risks, how to minimize, control and avoid these in your workplace.
Less than this falls short of what is reasonably practical and could should failure in your duty of care.

Your efforts must be progressive - what efforts you made and documented last decade won't cover you next decade - there is an expectation of continuous improvement. This takes more 'brain' than pushing a mower, and is expected of all business owners, managers, directors and supervisors. The 'common' man won't get his head around this (mostly by choice) and thus shows he is not qualified to run a business - a ticking liability 'time-bomb'.

How much care you really take on the job is accurately reflected in your diligence toward the administration of oh&s compliance.
You would be wise to cover yourself by demonstrating effort here. bla bla bla bla bla bla.......

Neil&family
20-10-2011, 05:07 PM
Now that pardon the French is c**p. If you have an activity that you have looked at and put in all possible methods to make it safe how can you do that better 10 years later. The activity remains the same and the only possible change can be people and machinery. But if the machinery change then you have to do a fresh JSA. I really think that OHWS has been blown out of all proportion and we do 75% only just to cover our arse due to negligent employees trying to sue people. All the miore reason not to have people working for you

comes back to the saying "To make something idiot proof, You have to remove the idiot."

Stripes
20-10-2011, 05:53 PM
I am currently installing a sprinkler system on a cricket oval with a hard hat on... Tell me OH&S hasn't gone too far.

ian
20-10-2011, 06:16 PM
I am currently installing a sprinkler system on a cricket oval with a hard hat on... Tell me OH&S hasn't gone too far.
you'll change your tune when the meteor hits you or the goal post falls on you and the hard hat saves your life :cool:

Tender Lovin Lawn&Garden
20-10-2011, 07:00 PM
I am currently installing a sprinkler system on a cricket oval with a hard hat on... Tell me OH&S hasn't gone too far.

What is there thought on this that they need you wearing a hard hat. I dont see cricketers wearing hard hats when there out fielding and there more likly to be hit by a hard cricket balll and trust me they hurt.


you'll change your tune when the meteor hits you or the goal post falls on you and the hard hat saves your life :cool:

nice one ian

Stripes
20-10-2011, 07:23 PM
What is there thought on this that they need you wearing a hard hat.

The site is classed as a construction site so we have to wear it anytime within the site which is ridiculous, but if we don't go along with it we get kicked off site.

I have had a few jobs like this. Another was basically working on a beach. Same deal. No hard hat= verbal warning. No hard hat twice = off site.

Kathryn
21-10-2011, 06:50 AM
make it idiot proof and someone will engineer a better idiot

glassngrass
21-10-2011, 07:56 AM
Former Jim's CEo - Richard Reid, is now into OH&S !
Got this email from him today.

Richard Reid has sent you a message.

Date: 10/20/2011

Subject: New contact details

This is just a quick message to let you know that after just over two years, I have left Jim’s Group and have joined Monit (www.monit.com.au), Australia’s leading on line Workplace Health & Safety Management System.

Monit have developed a highly systemised and affordable workplace monitoring program for small to medium sized businesses, particularly important in the lead up to the introduction of the new “harmonised” Workplace Health & Safety laws.

To be honest, WH&S is a thorn in the side of every small to medium sized business, but one of the great strengths of the Monit system is that it will enable all businesses to meet their WH&S obligations with the minimum of fuss and expense.

If you know of any business owner who could benefit from looking at the Monit system or simply needs some direction as to how the new WH&S laws will impact their business, I would appreciate it if you could pass on their details to me.

Thanks

Richard Reid
------------------------
It seems Monit are geared toward helping business become OH&S compliant - their site makes for some interesting reading.
It elaborates a little on National Harmonisation.
I noted with interest this page - When it comes to OH&S, Franchisees are NOT independent businesses. (http://www.monit.com.au/pages/posts/franchisors-beware-11.php)

Bluey
21-10-2011, 05:16 PM
And using the Jim's franchisee list to sell his product. Wonder what the big Jim has to say about that

owenj
29-12-2011, 10:56 PM
ok all i have sent Dean an OH&S for him to look at for our industry.it was not written by some pen pushing plopper but by someone doing the work on a day to day basis whit intimate knowledge of OH&S. it is incomplete because there are a lot of policies and procedures that some of you don't need but can get if you request it from us. there is also a lot of other forms and checklists that you may or mayn't need but that is up to your own discretion. Dean will release it in due course and i hope not only do you ike it but find it a help in your endeavors.
Remember SAFETY IS ULTIMATELY UP TO YOU SO BE CAREFUL WITH WHAT EVER YOU DO AND IF IN DOUBT ; STOP.

ian
29-12-2011, 11:24 PM
ok all i have sent Dean an OH&S for him to look at for our industry.it was not written by some pen pushing plopper but by someone doing the work on a day to day basis whit intimate knowledge of OH&S. it is incomplete because there are a lot of policies and procedures that some of you don't need but can get if you request it from us. there is also a lot of other forms and checklists that you may or mayn't need but that is up to your own discretion. Dean will release it in due course and i hope not only do you ike it but find it a help in your endeavors.
Remember SAFETY IS ULTIMATELY UP TO YOU SO BE CAREFUL WITH WHAT EVER YOU DO AND IF IN DOUBT ; STOP.


thanks owen
but i think it should be Remember SAFETY IS ULTIMATELY UP TO YOU SO BE CAREFUL WITH WHAT EVER YOU DO AND IF IN DOUBT tell them to ring JIMs :laughing:

danz
02-01-2012, 09:05 AM
That is great news mate. Great work

owenj
03-02-2012, 07:39 AM
Thanks i hope it will help. but please remember all that an OH&S is always a work in progress and that safety is ultimately up to you.
have a good year
Owenj

BLUEVBOY
03-02-2012, 06:04 PM
Thanks Owen. Thanks for going ahead with such a huge project despite all the negative nancy's.I look forward to getting a copy of this document, reading it thoroughly and adding any additional information relevant to my business. And there you have it! A document that I can show new employees as a training manual and without it would not be considered for new contracts with larger businesses. Thanks Again.

owenj
07-02-2012, 08:46 AM
You're welcome.

NLALM
07-02-2012, 03:47 PM
Yes thankyou for the time you have put into it. So how can we get hold of a copy

NLALM
07-02-2012, 03:48 PM
Yes thankyou for the time you have put into it. So how can we get hold of a copy

owenj
08-02-2012, 01:22 AM
Dean or I will let every one know when it is available. should be some time soon.

PaulG
08-02-2012, 09:57 AM
I took on a new customer this morning (just back here briefly from doing her job) and she asked me if I'm insured. I said yes for public liability up to $5 mill.

She said but what about for WorkCover if you injure yourself here at my place - fall down the steps and break your leg or something. I said I didn't have that sort of insurance as Workcover doesn't do individual sole-trader work.

She said can you sort it out before your next visit! And she also said she'd have to talk to the body corporate and ask their opinion?

I think she means she wants me to organise my own injury insurance. How many of you have this?

Dazz1
08-02-2012, 10:15 AM
Paul, I could be wrong but if you trip over her foot path or hit you head on her tree she is liable, if you mow your foot bad luck. income protection maybe.

Stripes
08-02-2012, 10:44 AM
This is what you need Paul. Very reasonable rates.
http://www.indmowing.com.au/html/aboutus_insurance_ai.htm

happymowin
08-02-2012, 12:06 PM
I took on a new customer this morning (just back here briefly from doing her job) and she asked me if I'm insured. I said yes for public liability up to $5 mill.

She said but what about for WorkCover if you injure yourself here at my place - fall down the steps and break your leg or something. I said I didn't have that sort of insurance as Workcover doesn't do individual sole-trader work.

She said can you sort it out before your next visit! And she also said she'd have to talk to the body corporate and ask their opinion?

I think she means she wants me to organise my own injury insurance. How many of you have this?

income protection insurance is what shes talking about.

i pay about 240 a month to guarantee $45,000 a year if im injured or disabled.

my policy is cheap i believe cos i set it up when i was a sales rep in an office, and once i became self employed, they couldnt change the policy on me for some legal reasons (i was told, anyway)


imo its invaluable and a must have.

what if you broke your back or neck etc, and couldnt ever work again, how would your family survive?


hope that helps mate

PaulG
08-02-2012, 07:59 PM
$240 per month Happy? Wow.

Even at the ILMCOA price there's no way I'll be affording that anytime soon.

Property owners do have a duty of care to provide us with a safe working environment but this isn't something I'd like to have to go to court over.

Mrs HMS
08-02-2012, 08:08 PM
This is what you need Paul. Very reasonable rates.
http://www.indmowing.com.au/html/aboutus_insurance_ai.htm

I can tell you now...make the most of this group scheme. Doing what you all do for a living you will find it very very difficult to get this sort of cover at all, let alone for the price of that one!

Stripes
08-02-2012, 08:10 PM
I can tell you now...make the most of this group scheme. Doing what you all do for a living you will find it very very difficult to get this sort of cover at all, let alone for the price of that one!

Exactly right. It is less than half the price of what I was paying with one of the big insurers previously.

PhilG
08-02-2012, 08:19 PM
Wow that is cheap, will have to organise cover. Work cover will cover me at work but b reak a leg after hours and then what???

Mrs HMS
08-02-2012, 08:23 PM
income protection covers you 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Check the policy wording for any exclusions though, standard ones are when motorcycle riding (other than as a normal commuter), football, skydiving etc.

South East Mowing
08-02-2012, 08:54 PM
I can tell you now...make the most of this group scheme. Doing what you all do for a living you will find it very very difficult to get this sort of cover at all, let alone for the price of that one!

Try getting it after you have had open heart surgery and the medications you take for cholesterol, blood pressure etc:wtf

Mrs HMS
08-02-2012, 09:33 PM
Not a hope in hell John...unless you can find a group scheme that is automatic acceptance and doesn't exclude pre-existing conditions...although even with the exclusion it's still good to be able to get cover for the 1000 other ways you can get sick or injure yourself.

Cranbourne Lawnmowing
06-05-2012, 06:17 PM
Just wondering if there is any news as to when the manual will be available?

BTW Thankyou Owen.

owenj
07-05-2012, 12:42 PM
i can send you a copy if you like. i sent dean one but he said it was not comprehensive enough.
email your address to owenj.cronin@gmail.com and i will see what i can do for you

gcsmow
07-03-2016, 06:31 PM
i can send you a copy if you like. i sent dean one but he said it was not comprehensive enough.
email your address to owenj.cronin@gmail.com and i will see what i can do for you

I'll send you an email as well. If you could send me one that would be great.