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Thread: Securing a Domain Name

  1. #1
    Senior Member Lawn Mowing Professionals's Avatar
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    Default Securing a Domain Name

    Hi everyone...

    I am looking at a particular domain name (.com.au) that has just expired - A mowing comrade currently owns it but hasn't renewed it and has let it lapsed during the first stage. There has never been a site on it or re-directed to there main site... it is just parked.

    It is a good domain with strong keywords in my opinion... most of all i actually want to use this as my business name

    It is currently only a few days since it's been expired and i believe the owner has 30 days since the expiry date to renew the domain name.

    My questions are -

    1. Does anyone know how long it takes for the expired domain (after 30 day grace period) to be put back into the public offerings? My understanding it is the following day but i have been told it can be longer depending on the australian domain registry.

    These are my current options that i am aware of to secure the domain name...

    1. I am considering placing a backorder on the domain name for around $9... now the way this works is the domain provider will "try" to secure it when released on the public offering and then offer it to me "apparently at no other charge if no one else place a backorder"... I know that if someone else places a backorder... there is a bidding war that i'm not prepared to go down this path as it usually ends up costing a mint.

    Do you think (like i do) or know for fact... that domain name companies can make up a fake bidder to get the maximum out of you or have a domain name broker that "magically takes interest"?

    2. Would you contact the current owner and ask for him to transfer it you? There is a $140 transfer fee, but may also remind the owner to renew it??

    3. Would you sit back and relax and hope for the best that it falls into the public offering and pick it up for normal cost of $12

    I had a basic domain a few years ago and let it lapse... a domain broker actually bought it after the expiry and then tried selling it back to me or on the open market for $800 from memory... I laughed, does anyone know if this is still a common practice?

    4. If i register the business name... would i then be able to secure the domain and be rightful owner if a broker registers?

    Anyone with previous experience in this matter I would appreciate your feedback!

    Thanks in advance

    Simmo.

  2. #2
    Senior Member cadase's Avatar
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    Default Re: Securing a Domain Name

    Tell us the name, you can trust us
    beerbob.com.au
    beerbobmowing.com.au
    I GOT tlclawncare.com.au fine but forgot to get tlclawncare/net/au
    and someone else took it, would have been nice to have them both.
    Don't know about the rest of your post, i only read the first paragraph of your posts Simmo, life is short

  3. #3
    Member Redeye's Avatar
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    Default Re: Securing a Domain Name

    Quote Originally Posted by cadase View Post
    Don't know about the rest of your post, i only read the first paragraph of your posts Simmo, life is short
    lol, you're a classic!

    good luck simmo




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  4. #4
    Senior Member happymowin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Securing a Domain Name

    too late simmo i just re registered happymowin.com

    but seriously - i dont know, if you cant find out let me know - i know the king of tech guys in the usa, i can ask him, but he's snowed under working on our gaming site and his real work, so i dont want to load him down, and it might take a couple days to get an answer it being easter and he's busy etc.

    cheers

  5. #5
    Senior Member Lawn Mowing Professionals's Avatar
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    Default Re: Securing a Domain Name

    lol

    that's cool Happy... for most oversea's domains like .com there is a 75 day cooling off period after expiry... luckily our com.au are 30 something days.

    The only reason why i want to know how many days exactly is so i can register it once it drops... that's if i take the gamble of waiting and not place a backorder and hope for the best.

    Simmo.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Dazz1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Securing a Domain Name

    If the .com and .net are available I'd grab them first, if they are already taken I'd rethink the name.
    A business name dosn't give you any rights over the same domain name or even the same business name in another state.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Lawn Mowing Professionals's Avatar
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    Default Re: Securing a Domain Name

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazz1 View Post
    If the .com and .net are available I'd grab them first, if they are already taken I'd rethink the name.
    A business name dosn't give you any rights over the same domain name or even the same business name in another state.
    The com.au and net.au are both registered by same person and both expired... just waiting for the drop to see if i secure them. If i don't secure them then i won't be using the name.

    The .com is owned by one of the largest domain broker in the USA since 2003... they have paid up the domain registration until 2016. This domain broker has millions of domains parked for sale. Unless i was to pay big $$$ i wouldn't be able to secure the .com anytime soon. As they have owned it for 10 years and there has been no takers... it might be cheaper than i think

    As a local mowing business based in Australia not owning the .com in my opinion isn't a deal breaker... I would be happy enough with the .com.au and .net.au for the Australian market. I understand what you are saying though darren as it is best to own every domain possible!

    This business name has never been registered in Australia... i'm surprised that it hasn't to be honest. Its easy to remember, simple and straight to the point with strong keywords for SEO! As i would mainly be using the name for online marketing it wouldn't matter if i don't have the .com and at this stage it isn't even a parked domain so absolutely nothing comes up with a google search... to get to the site you need to physically type in the address in your browers and it then redirects to the list broker's details.

    On a side note to registering a business name - the business name register is now done through ASIC which is now a national database service... http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/Bu...ess_names.html in the old days a business name was done through the fair trading which was state to state so there could be "identical" business names in each state (except if there was a company name registered). This is no longer the case.

    I will be registering the business name as a company anyways, which will should stop any sole trader trying to register the name in the future in any state... I will also be applying for a trade mark on the business name once i secure it which "should" protect my brand.

    Regarding a business name doesn't guarantee you to secure the domain name... i have to disagree. In my previous business i had the .com and .com.au names... one of my competitiors registered the .net.com and redirected the name to there site (they also did it to multiple businesses in our industry)... they had to give the domain name to me (yes it did cost me). For .com there is no rules so to speak and why there is list brokers selling names... there aren't many brokers selling .com.au names unless it is very generic strong keyword names or location based names etc.

    If i get the trademark approved and secure both the .au sites i would then consider purchasing the .com site if it was a reasonable price. If I plan to push the brand nationally, it would be foolish not to secure .com if i went down this path... for a local "one man" mowing business it wouldn't matter.

    I would perfer to have a national business though

    Simmo.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Securing a Domain Name

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawn Mowing Professionals View Post
    The com.au and net.au are both registered by same person and both expired... just waiting for the drop to see if i secure them. If i don't secure them then i won't be using the name.

    The .com is owned by one of the largest domain broker in the USA since 2003... they have paid up the domain registration until 2016. This domain broker has millions of domains parked for sale. Unless i was to pay big $$$ i wouldn't be able to secure the .com anytime soon. As they have owned it for 10 years and there has been no takers... it might be cheaper than i think

    As a local mowing business based in Australia not owning the .com in my opinion isn't a deal breaker... I would be happy enough with the .com.au and .net.au for the Australian market. I understand what you are saying though darren as it is best to own every domain possible!

    This business name has never been registered in Australia... i'm surprised that it hasn't to be honest. Its easy to remember, simple and straight to the point with strong keywords for SEO! As i would mainly be using the name for online marketing it wouldn't matter if i don't have the .com and at this stage it isn't even a parked domain so absolutely nothing comes up with a google search... to get to the site you need to physically type in the address in your browers and it then redirects to the list broker's details.

    On a side note to registering a business name - the business name register is now done through ASIC which is now a national database service... http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/Bu...ess_names.html in the old days a business name was done through the fair trading which was state to state so there could be "identical" business names in each state (except if there was a company name registered). This is no longer the case.

    I will be registering the business name as a company anyways, which will should stop any sole trader trying to register the name in the future in any state... I will also be applying for a trade mark on the business name once i secure it which "should" protect my brand.

    Regarding a business name doesn't guarantee you to secure the domain name... i have to disagree. In my previous business i had the .com and .com.au names... one of my competitiors registered the .net.com and redirected the name to there site (they also did it to multiple businesses in our industry)... they had to give the domain name to me (yes it did cost me). For .com there is no rules so to speak and why there is list brokers selling names... there aren't many brokers selling .com.au names unless it is very generic strong keyword names or location based names etc.

    If i get the trademark approved and secure both the .au sites i would then consider purchasing the .com site if it was a reasonable price. If I plan to push the brand nationally, it would be foolish not to secure .com if i went down this path... for a local "one man" mowing business it wouldn't matter.

    I would perfer to have a national business though

    Simmo.
    You growin a beard

  9. #9
    Senior Member Lawn Mowing Professionals's Avatar
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    Default Re: Securing a Domain Name

    Quote Originally Posted by South East Mowing View Post
    You growin a beard
    Nope. Clean shaven here

    There's no point in starting up another franchising system in my opinion.... the market is at saturation point. It has been well over done lately by new franchises and also established franchises advertising heavily... and i'm not convinced people will pay $30K + for a franchise that isn't a household name with the current economic conditions. Even for an established franchise people would be caucious of spending the big $$$ vs the risk.

    Instead of a franchise I would consider setting up a "licence agreement" for selected and trusted business owners to trade under the same name so that it is win/win outcome for there business and also the brand overall. If i choose to go down this path it would be my loyal, trusted and proven employee's that get the initial opportunity to start there own run, there may also be other business owners that I would consider if they are looking to expand there operations and already have a viable and established business. The "licence agreement" option can be costly to the brand if i select the wrong operators.

    Therefore, in the initial stage I would definately perfer to set up multiple company owned runs across sydney and test the overall business model. If the business model is sound (as i intend it to be) i would then do an IPO to raise capital for the growth and infrastructure into other states with the goal of becoming a household name and becoming a public listed company. It is at this stage a .com domain would be beneficial to overall business model.

    That would be much more rewarding than starting yet another franchise model

    Simmo.

  10. #10
    Senior Member AJD Mowing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Securing a Domain Name

    We tried a similar thing when we formed the Master Bricklaying Association in Tas but we ran into a big can of worms. We even had a member of parliment inform us we could not have a set of rates as this would be collusion. The people that were interested eventualy put it into the too hard basket and it fizzed out, But as an association it was and I beleive still is good for everyone concerned.. I have heard of other trades trying to do this over the years in different states but never seen one get off the ground but I am sure it would work with the right comittment from the right people at the beginning
    AJD Mowing Giving Back Your Life

    http://www.ajdmowing.com.au/

  11. #11
    Senior Member happymowin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Securing a Domain Name

    simmo,

    you have to be careful with what youre doing.

    in my old business we did something similar,

    i was told that i was lucky we didnt run afoul of the franchising laws, even if you dont sell it "as a franchise" theres lots of laws in place now that force you to do things "the right way"

    i was told that i would have had to spend many tens of thousands of $ to set it up in a way that a disgruntled "purchaser" wouldnt be able to take everything off me.

    franchising "properly" not only protects the zee but the zor too.

    imo when you add up all the costs of setting it up, in a way that ensures safety for everyone, the 30,000 a zee is cheap.

  12. #12
    Member Greenie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Securing a Domain Name

    My head hurts, I got lost after the first sentence, I like this KISS theory, KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID
    Lol not sure why u make everything so difficult Simmo.

  13. #13
    Senior Member fairdinkum's Avatar
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    Default Re: Securing a Domain Name

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenie View Post
    My head hurts, I got lost after the first sentence, I like this KISS theory, KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID
    Lol not sure why u make everything so difficult Simmo.
    I'm with you greenie. Why unnecessarily over-complicate the uncomplicated?

    Jason Forrest
    Fair Dinkum Lawn & Garden Care
    Servicing St Clair, Erskine Park, Colyton, South St Marys
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  14. #14
    Senior Member PaulG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Securing a Domain Name

    Cmon fellas, leave the poor guy alone. He just has big dreams is all.

  15. #15
    Senior Member GardenGuy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Securing a Domain Name

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawn Mowing Professionals View Post
    1. Does anyone know how long it takes for the expired domain (after 30 day grace period) to be put back into the public offerings? My understanding it is the following day but i have been told it can be longer depending on the australian domain registry.
    Nominally, 30 - 60 days, sometimes longer. Back order it and see how you go, or talk to the registrar where is it currently held.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lawn Mowing Professionals View Post
    1. I am considering placing a backorder on the domain name for around $9... now the way this works is the domain provider will "try" to secure it when released on the public offering and then offer it to me "apparently at no other charge if no one else place a backorder"... I know that if someone else places a backorder... there is a bidding war that i'm not prepared to go down this path as it usually ends up costing a mint.

    Do you think (like i do) or know for fact... that domain name companies can make up a fake bidder to get the maximum out of you or have a domain name broker that "magically takes interest"?
    You might like to use a reputable registrar, like MelbourneIT. They are publicly listed and have rules and regs to which they must adhere. Other resellers may have irregularities in how they deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawn Mowing Professionals View Post
    2. Would you contact the current owner and ask for him to transfer it you? There is a $140 transfer fee, but may also remind the owner to renew it??
    It's a 50:50. If you know him and he no longer wants it, this would be the most ethical way to do it. It's no huge increase in expense, when you take ROI into account. If you don't know him, it might remind him to renew or to cause him to offer it to you for sale. Your own moral compass might guide you on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawn Mowing Professionals View Post
    3. Would you sit back and relax and hope for the best that it falls into the public offering and pick it up for normal cost of $12
    .
    If I knew the guy, no. I would rather be upfront about the interest in the domain name, rather than him finding out later that you bought it out from under him, whether he wanted it or not. If you don't know the guy, then it's up to you and your ethics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawn Mowing Professionals View Post
    I had a basic domain a few years ago and let it lapse... a domain broker actually bought it after the expiry and then tried selling it back to me or on the open market for $800 from memory... I laughed, does anyone know if this is still a common practice?
    Yes, but it depends on the size of the target the prospector is choosing to face off with. For minnows, there is not much interest. For poorly guarded whales, there is interest out there.

    There is also another sharp practice where an e-mail from HK will say that someone is planning on purchasing the .asia or some other address related to your business and if you don't buy it now, then you will not be able to regain control of it. It's an attempt at a forced sale of the domain name at a premium to those who are not in the know. Kinda like 419 scams...


    Quote Originally Posted by Lawn Mowing Professionals View Post
    4. If i register the business name... would i then be able to secure the domain and be rightful owner if a broker registers?
    Generally, for rightful ownership of a .com.au domain name you would need an entity which has a name that directly relates to that domain name and does not infringe trademark, is not obscene, etc. Usually, a registrar reviews purchases and will call you to try to sell other goodies beyond the domain name, but also to verify the bonafides of the buyer or their agent.


    Best of luck - Cheers - GardenGuy.
    Thanks in advance
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