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Thread: height safety

  1. #1
    Senior Member happymowin's Avatar
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    Default height safety

    ok so after the last "discussion" we had about this, i tht id start a new thread.

    after doing some research, (triggered by said last discussion) i have found out the following:


    doing ANY work from a ladder leaning against a gutter is AGAINST WHS best practices - cant use an extension ladder to work from, clear gutters from etc. - and a stepladder opened out into a single ladder, leaning against the gutter/building is the same.

    these type of ladders are for accessing and egressing the roof only.


    a stepladder may only be used when 3 points of contact are kept at all times.


    cutting hedges from a stepladder (if using two hands on the trimmer) is against whs best practice UNLESS the ladder is a platform ladder, or LIKE a platform ladder, has the bar that extends above the top step to "lean against" for want of a better word.


    so using your body, your bum or another body part as your "3rd point of contact" is not on.


    theres a requirement under WHS, that if it is "foreseeable" that you will be hurt from a fall, whether that is 4 metres falling or 1 to 1.5 metres, that you should be height safety trained - even to work from a step ladder trimming hedges.

    there is no 3 metre minimum rule anymore, as there used to be pre 2011 (in the regulations dated 2008 i think it was) - this was changed 2011 to the rule they use now, and in 2012 they tried to nationalise WHS, but vic and nsw refused, so its still in the works.


    as everyone on this forum is so safety orientated im sure this news will come as a wake up call.


    theres also some talk within the whs industry of our customers being held responsible if they dont ensure contractors they employ are properly trained and certified (not mentally, lol) - just as if they are an employer/employer of subbies.


    apparently it is expected by quite a few that when the nationalisation of whs legislation rolls out (apparently nsw and vic are dragging their heels) this will become law.

    i was also told it is now government policy (when working for them) to make anyone mowing a 20 degree embankment or greater hold a "working at heights" qualification - lol !!! what they expect you to connect a rop to idk !!!


    i was told should you breach whs best practices, your insurance company may not cover you for any damage you do to property or yourself. Its an "out" for them - and we know what they like to do with that !!


    so anyway in the spirit of the forum i thought i would share this info


    if you doubt any info on here, please do your own research, i dont intend to defend my findings - just passing the info along.


    cheers!!!


  2. #2
    Senior Member PaulG's Avatar
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    Default Re: height safety

    What are your references/weblinks Happy? This sort of info needs to be read firsthand.

    Not wanting you to defend this, but wouldn't you have known this info already from your qualification for working at height to do gutters?

    I was trying to explain some of this to a local guy the other day and he thought I was pulling his leg. He uses Gorilla trestle-platform (not a ladder) and trestle planks on ladder racks on the back of his truck to do 3m+ hedges.

  3. #3
    Senior Member PaulG's Avatar
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    Default Re: height safety

    There was a big discussion on this somewhere on the forum while you were having a little holiday too. Lots of talk about mobile scaffolding etc. Will try to find it.

  4. #4
    Senior Member happymowin's Avatar
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    Default Re: height safety

    http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rc...46471029,d.aGc

    http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LE...11/11SL240.pdf

    maybe that link works better

    i searched google for: ladder safety whs legislation and it was the second link.

    but really, you should do your own research and or traiing if you are placed in a situation effected by this - dont trust what someone on here tells you - use it as a prompt to find out for yourself (ie dont ask another guy with ladders who does work on hedges )

    the link doesnt come up properly (its a pdf so i cant go into it then copy the link)

    page 86 detailes requirement for height training

    page 259-60 details working from ladders.


    i DID know a lot of the old stuff from my previous training (pre 2011 legislation) - out of interest, i undertook a new training course today to refresh my understanding of the legislation changes and to get some new contacts in that industry

    interestingly there is no REQUIREMENT to retrain, once you have done it youre good to go ("forever")


    this stuff comes straight out of the course handbook, and from the trainers mouth (i asked him a lot of POINTED questions)


    so there ya go, paul

    keep safe


    cheers


  5. #5
    Senior Member PaulG's Avatar
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    Default Re: height safety

    Cheers.

    There's only one guy I know personally here who has done the heights course and he said it was over $1000 just like a chainsaw course. 99% here still use the old standard 8ft step-ladder for hedges. If OHS ever decide to have a proper crackdown they will have a field day.

    I won't do gutters anymore mostly due to my bad hip making me unstable and the fact I can't justify that expense for clients who think a gutter clean (mucky gutters that take 2 to 3 hours for 50 or 60 linear metres for example) should cost under $200. (Before adding the costs of safety equipment and training)

  6. #6
    Senior Member happymowin's Avatar
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    Default Re: height safety

    $300 or less for a one day course, paul.

    theres a "rescue course" thats 2 days - for if you have to rescue workmates etc.

    but working at heights is between 265 and 300 from when i researched it last week - the cheaper ones were ones that come to you, so you have to supply a training area and practice area (like for big companies running a lot of guys thru)

    the $295 odd seemed to be the norm when you go to their facility to train.

    but tea and coffee is supplied free, lol


    but i thought it was worth it once i googled the legislation and saw to my horror how much had changed.

    so now i am freshly re certified (not mentally lol) and ready to work.

    gonna go buy me a platform ladder tomorrow, lol, as well as a few new toys to put in my heights bag.

    cheers

  7. #7
    Member Rye Victoria great nature's Avatar
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    Default Re: height safety

    [QUOTE=happymowin;

    i was told should you breach whs best practices, your insurance company may not cover you for any damage you do to property or yourself. Its an "out" for them - and we know what they like to do with that !!

    [/QUOTE]

    sonova.... +

  8. #8
    Senior Member happymowin's Avatar
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    Default Re: height safety



    i know,

    ROLL UP ROLL UP, SEE HAPPY Perform DEATH DEFYING STUNTS

    Prepare To BE AWED, kiddies, as Happy RIDES A HORSE , while STANDING ON HIS HEAD - along the roof, cleaning the gutter:

    "
    4) This section does not apply in relation to the following
    work—
    (a) the performance of stunt work;
    (b) the performance of acrobatics;
    (c) a theatrical performance;
    (d) a sporting or athletic activity;
    (e) horse riding.
    Note—
    Section 20 applies to the management of risk in relation to this work. "



    lol

  9. #9
    Senior Member AJD Mowing's Avatar
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    Default Re: height safety

    Quote Originally Posted by happymowin View Post


    i know,

    ROLL UP ROLL UP, SEE HAPPY Perform DEATH DEFYING STUNTS

    Prepare To BE AWED, kiddies, as Happy RIDES A HORSE , while STANDING ON HIS HEAD - along the roof, cleaning the gutter:

    "
    4) This section does not apply in relation to the following
    work—
    (a) the performance of stunt work;
    (b) the performance of acrobatics;
    (c) a theatrical performance;
    (d) a sporting or athletic activity;
    (e) horse riding.
    Note—
    Section 20 applies to the management of risk in relation to this work. "



    lol
    Time to take your pills Happy
    AJD Mowing Giving Back Your Life

    http://www.ajdmowing.com.au/

  10. #10
    Senior Member happymowin's Avatar
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    Default Re: height safety

    http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rc...iqocCjugn3PMNg

    theres another good document: look on page 36 which states in part:


    Except where additional and appropriate fall protection equipment is used in conjunction with the ladder, it is not safe to:
    • over-reach (the centre of the torso should be within the ladder stiles throughout the work)
    • use any power or hand tool requiring two hands to operate, such as concrete cutting saws and circular saws (SIC Hedging machines)
    • use tools that require a high degree of leverage force which, if released, may cause the user to over-balance or fall from the ladder, such as pinch bars


    cheers

  11. #11
    MEMBER Fred's mowing's Avatar
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    Default Re: height safety

    Just watched a ladder safety segment on better homes & gardens.
    Chock uneven legs with blocks of wood & tie off on a tree branch.
    That surely would be unacceptable on the coarse, would'nt it happy?
    This was on national tv
    Cheers Fred.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: height safety

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred's mowing View Post
    Just watched a ladder safety segment on better homes & gardens.
    Chock uneven legs with blocks of wood & tie off on a tree branch.
    That surely would be unacceptable on the coarse, would'nt it happy?
    This was on national tv
    Cheers Fred.
    the other day i looked at the tele and the block was on,the contestants were using nail guns without safety glasses
    Anything Ian says may or may not be garbage, it may also be his own opinion or it may not be his opinion at all, it may just be something he felt like stating anyone following his advice does so at their own risk and may be doing something Ian would actually advise against.
    And if you don't like what Ian has to say use the ignore function if you don't know how ask i will gladly tell you

  13. #13
    Senior Member happymowin's Avatar
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    Default Re: height safety

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred's mowing View Post
    Just watched a ladder safety segment on better homes & gardens.
    Chock uneven legs with blocks of wood & tie off on a tree branch.
    That surely would be unacceptable on the coarse, would'nt it happy?
    This was on national tv
    Cheers Fred.

    they do say to secure ladders to the structure to improve safety, theres even anchors that secure to the metal roofs (with a couple roofing screws) and strap the ladder to (as i think using the gutter to secure to is frowned upon)

    as to BHG, cant say ultimately as i didnt see the show. unsure about strapping it to a tree - were they working on the tree? and if so were they maintaining 3 points of contact with the ladder? ie using tools one handed?

    but BHG has a lot to answer for imo, they do some clown-ish things sometimes - when i watch it with my wife, i regard it as a COMEDY and laugh at all the silly rubbish they do

    cheers !!


  14. #14
    Senior Member AJD Mowing's Avatar
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    Default Re: height safety

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred's mowing View Post
    Just watched a ladder safety segment on better homes & gardens.
    Chock uneven legs with blocks of wood & tie off on a tree branch.
    That surely would be unacceptable on the coarse, would'nt it happy?
    This was on national tv
    Cheers Fred.
    Anyone use these?
    Lader Leveler.jpgLadder Leveler 2.jpg
    AJD Mowing Giving Back Your Life

    http://www.ajdmowing.com.au/

  15. #15
    MEMBER Fred's mowing's Avatar
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    Default Re: height safety

    Quote Originally Posted by AJD Mowing View Post
    I use similar to the one on the left.
    The one on the right I saw for the first time the other day.
    All reputable manufactures have extension ladder models with levellers.
    My Bailey has these, you can also retro fit leg levellers.
    Black adder does a retro fit.
    Cheers Fred.

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