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Thread: Glyphosate, Good for what ails you

  1. #16
    lifestyle
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    Default Re: Glyphosate, Good for what ails you

    Quote Originally Posted by geoff
    ffs lifestyle stop the crap and give the alternative that works
    ffs, geoff, i did.

  2. #17
    lifestyle
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    Default Re: Glyphosate, Good for what ails you

    Quote Originally Posted by Hustler
    get your hand off it you have to go on and on im sick of you
    You told me to stick to my organic forum didn't you. You chose to view the topic.

  3. #18
    Senior Member geoff's Avatar
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    Default Re: Glyphosate, Good for what ails you

    well lifestyle i'll leave your topic but the options are still there to be given

  4. #19
    lifestyle
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    Default Re: Glyphosate, Good for what ails you

    Quote Originally Posted by glassngrass
    Five or ten minute spray of grass/weeds in paths, borders and garden beds - $10.
    Elbow grease for same - $$$ ?
    Customer says to me ... can you spray the weeds in my path. I say no i don't spray chemicals. But i can salt them for you for half the price anyone could spray them. $2.50 worth of salt - Half hour of time. Customer pays. She's happy. I'm happy.


    Quote Originally Posted by glassngrass
    The customer dictates to a large extent what we do for them. I would make HEAPS if I weeded all my customers properties by hand regularly - I wouldn't need to mow! Use of glyphosate isn't laziness on my part, but the cheap and easy option our customers choose - they WANT "Wham! Bam! Thank You Sam "- Stop the clock and calulate the bill - not half their take home on weeding!
    I don't offer spraying as an option to my customers. Many say they got me to do the job because i don't use chemicals.

    Quote Originally Posted by glassngrass
    Roundup has been found to be highly deadly to tadpoles ... possible cause for the decline in frog species ... acutely toxic to fish etc..
    Anybody spraying this stuff in wetlands, rivers, lakes, etc... should be strung up by the 'nurries'. As professionals we should behave in a responsible manner and use sparingly - not to 'nuke the place!' like many DIY's with their Mitre 10 pre-mixed spray packs!
    The industry is full of butchers who couldn't give a shi.t

    Quote Originally Posted by glassngrass
    Yes, when it gets to the point this stuff gets banned, THEN the customer will feel the consequences of THEIR choices, until then, this remains the choice of favor among most of them!
    There's PLENTY of work available. The demand for Asbestos pretty soon dried up when its health effects were detected and the product regulated.

    If operators keep providing the service, the demand will remain.

    Quote Originally Posted by glassngrass
    A bit like smoking - many don't see the need to stop until advanced stages of emphysemia and they physically can't draw in (and still deny there is a problem!)
    Funny thing... the blindest people have 20/20 vision

    Quote Originally Posted by glassngrass
    By the way, do you smoke?
    I Never have smoked.

    I Never have drunk alcohol - When i have fun... i remember it

    Like I always say... If you do what most people are doing, you'll get what most people have got, because nothing changes if nothing changes!

    Or in the words of the great Ghandi... "Be the change you want to see in the world"

    Shyte.. thats a bit heavy isn't it!!

  5. #20
    Senior Member glassngrass's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Glyphosate, Good for what ails you

    Quote Originally Posted by glassngrass
    Five or ten minute spray of grass/weeds in paths, borders and garden beds - $10.
    Elbow grease for same - $$$ ?

    Quote Originally Posted by lifestyle
    ... i can salt them for you for half the price anyone could spray them. $2.50 worth of salt - Half hour of time. Customer pays. She's happy. I'm happy.
    You would do equivalent with $2.50 salt and half hour of time - for half of $10 ????
    I don't think so!
    David
    Mr Sparkle Car Spa

  6. #21
    Senior Member glassngrass's Avatar
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    Default Re: Glyphosate, Good for all - so say all of us!

    Quote Originally Posted by lifestyle
    Like I always say... If you do what most people are doing, you'll get what most people have got, because nothing changes if nothing changes!
    I have to agree with the principle here! The same as "If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got!" Have you noticed the overall responses to your posts on this subject??

    Perhaps it's the self appointed messiahs that need to reconsider how they present their sincere, yet strongly held views.

    We are willing to learn, become better educated, and adjust. Nobody wants to be preached at.
    David
    Mr Sparkle Car Spa

  7. #22
    lifestyle
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    Default Re: Glyphosate, Good for what ails you

    Quote Originally Posted by glassngrass
    You would do equivalent with $2.50 salt and half hour of time - for half of $10 ????
    I don't think so!
    I miss read your post. I could do the same job in the same time frame without the chemical, no risk assessment required and yes for 5 or 10 minutes i could probably do it for an extra $5 (Half your $10). I'd just do it on the way back to the door to collect the money for the job (+ $2.50 for product).

  8. #23
    lifestyle
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    Default Re: Glyphosate, Good for all - so say all of us!

    Quote Originally Posted by glassngrass
    I have to agree with the principle here! The same as "If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got!" Have you noticed the overall responses to your posts on this subject??

    Perhaps it's the self appointed messiahs that need to reconsider how they present their sincere, yet strongly held views.

    We are willing to learn, become better educated, and adjust. Nobody wants to be preached at.
    It is NOT about preaching. Its about presenting a strong opinion on a topic that is important in todays society.

    I invite negativity on the subject. Because negativity brings with it, debate and long forum threads. Someone, somewhere will pick this thread up, be it a visitor or new member, a student or a researcher. They will look at the opinion presented and some will agree. some won't.

    Those who agree may change their practices, those that don't agree won't. But somewhere, somehow, this thread will make a difference. Its the people who DON'T reply that I generally aim at. Those who do reply just help with the debate.

  9. #24
    Senior Member glassngrass's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Glyphosate - there's worse stuff in our shampoo!

    In the grand scheme of things, roundup, altho not entirely without it's downside, is benign and harmless in comparison with much more damaging and pervasive chemicals we use daily.
    For example - SLS, or Sodium laurel sulphate. Its the stuff they put in garage floor degreasers. It is also used as a universal irritant, to which they use as a base line to compare other irritants (poor test bunny rabbits!) Because it has a lovely slippery, foamy feel it is the additive of choice in our shampoos. It is absorbed thru the skin, and worse, absorbed more readily by inhaling in with the steam in our showers. Amoung a host of well documented risks it affects eye developement in young ones - the inclusion of this component is often disguised with descriptions such as 'contains coconut extract'.

    There are many worthwhile causes and concerns on our planet - save the whale, save the harp seal, save water, interest rates, inflation, unemployment, global warming, polar melting, holes in ozone layer, hormones and antibiotics in chickens for crying out loud!

    Overall, in the picture of things that are truly devasting to health and the environment, rising salt levels in the water table and over-excertion and strain from manual weeding (and may I also add, overzealous fundamentalists) cause much greater concern.

    I thank Monsanto (and Nufarm in oz) for saving us from these perils.
    David
    Mr Sparkle Car Spa

  10. #25
    Senior Member Premier's Avatar
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    Default Re: Glyphosate, Good for what ails you

    Sorry Guy's if this is derailing this thread a little but it is for "Eric" so I figure it's appropriate here.

    Eric - There is no doubt that you have a strong belief in regards to using Organic methods as opposed to most that are using Glypho and other chemicals on a daily basis.

    You freely admit that you only follow organic principals in your business and in fact some of your customers request it...but if a customer doesn't want you to use organic methods do you walk away?...how strongly do you believe in the principal you are so strongly supporting here?

    For me the customer often is the driving force in regards to the way in which we address any situation, we can advise and offer suggestions but ultimately they hold the trump card..."The Money"

    I'm not suggesting that we should do anything they ask but if I was a customer of yours and you broke into song spouting the data you have shared with us here on my doorstep the door would quickly close.

    Each and everyone has and is entitled to there opinion, as they say there is two sides to every story.

    Whilst we can all read the warning notices on Glypho and other chemicals what proof do we really have that some of the home made remedies that you use don't have harmful side effects?

    A quick example...you have on occasion suggested that salt is great for supressing weeds but it is also not good for the human heart in quantity so how do we know what it does to the soil?

    I'm not criticising your beliefs but I believe that everyone's opinions should be considered on balance...I think it's time to take a deep breath and reflect for a moment.

    Cheers

    Premier

  11. #26
    Senior Member glassngrass's Avatar
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    Default Re: Glyphosate, Good for what ails you

    Quote Originally Posted by Premier
    ...I think it's time to take a deep breath and reflect for a moment.
    I find it difficult to take the harbinger of 'impending doom' from our glyposate use seriously, so now am simply having a bit of fun and accepting the invitation to strongly disagree.

    There is no heated anger in my posts and I don't desire to 'flame' anyone.
    David
    Mr Sparkle Car Spa

  12. #27
    lifestyle
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    Default Re: Glyphosate - there's worse stuff in our shampoo!

    Quote Originally Posted by glassngrass
    In the grand scheme of things, roundup, altho not entirely without it's downside, is benign and harmless in comparison with much more damaging and pervasive chemicals we use daily.
    For example - SLS, or Sodium laurel sulphate. Its the stuff they put in garage floor degreasers. It is also used as a universal irritant, to which they use as a base line to compare other irritants (poor test bunny rabbits!) Because it has a lovely slippery, foamy feel it is the additive of choice in our shampoos. It is absorbed thru the skin, and worse, absorbed more readily by inhaling in with the steam in our showers. Amoung a host of well documented risks it affects eye developement in young ones - the inclusion of this component is often disguised with descriptions such as 'contains coconut extract'...
    Yes! Totally true. We don't use anything with SLS, Propylene Glycol or other irritants. We use Certified Organic products.

    Quote Originally Posted by glassngrass
    There are many worthwhile causes and concerns on our planet - save the whale, save the harp seal, save water, interest rates, inflation, unemployment, global warming, polar melting, holes in ozone layer, hormones and antibiotics in chickens for crying out loud!
    Many worthy causes. We all have a passion for many different area's.

    Quote Originally Posted by glassngrass
    Overall, in the picture of things that are truly devasting to health and the environment, rising salt levels in the water table and over-excertion and strain from manual weeding (and may I also add, overzealous fundamentalists) cause much greater concern..
    The biggest concern with rising salt levels is deforestation. I only recommend using SMALL amounts of salt in areas where PERMANENT removal is required. Paths, fence lines etc. I NEVER use or recommend salt in Garden Beds or where regrowth is required at a later date.

  13. #28
    Senior Member geoff's Avatar
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    Default Re: Glyphosate, Good for what ails you

    eric good on ya for passion but the salt idea worries me with wash of to the garden beds what about the http://www.naturesavenger.com/ have u tried that product thats supposed to be better thabn round up

  14. #29
    lifestyle
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    Default Re: Glyphosate, Good for what ails you

    Quote Originally Posted by Premier
    You freely admit that you only follow organic principals in your business and in fact some of your customers request it...but if a customer doesn't want you to use organic methods do you walk away?...how strongly do you believe in the principal you are so strongly supporting here?
    On average i turn back 3 or 4 calls a month who ONLY want weeds sprayed. My regulars know i don't use chemicals and don't ask me to spray. Any new customers who ask me to spray i just let them know i don't use chemicals.

    Suffice to say, Yes i often turn work away when its a request for spraying any chemicals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Premier
    For me the customer often is the driving force in regards to the way in which we address any situation, we can advise and offer suggestions but ultimately they hold the trump card..."The Money"
    Moneys a commodity... its right up there with oxygen but in the end i have to live with my actions. I've seen the results of medical issues assoociated with chemical usage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Premier
    I'm not suggesting that we should do anything they ask but if I was a customer of yours and you broke into song spouting the data you have shared with us here on my doorstep the door would quickly close.
    When one wants to debate the application of chemicals, one should do so with the people who apply them, not the customer I would have thought ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Premier
    Whilst we can all read the warning notices on Glypho and other chemicals what proof do we really have that some of the home made remedies that you use don't have harmful side effects?
    Many things in nature are toxic. Why? Because plants don't have teeth like a lion. Plants have to defend themselves in some way. If its safe enough to eat, its safe enough for any application. As a general rule if it wasn't originally from nature and in a natural form, i wouldn't put it into nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Premier
    A quick example...you have on occasion suggested that salt is great for supressing weeds but it is also not good for the human heart in quantity so how do we know what it does to the soil?
    As mentioned above, Never use salt where you want regrowth. Just in areas for permanent removal, The only exception i would use is when spotting on the ocassional flatweed in a lawn. But its not toxic in the sense it doesn't cause cellular mutation, etc. It just dries stuff up. Seriously in heavy concentrations.

    Salt is a natural mineral found in Sea Water. Swimming in the sea doesn't effect our health, unless the water is polluted, lol or full of industrial chemical run off

    Quote Originally Posted by Premier
    I'm not criticising your beliefs but I believe that everyone's opinions should be considered on balance...I think it's time to take a deep breath and reflect for a moment.
    Glad to have your opinion.

  15. #30
    Senior Member glassngrass's Avatar
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    Default Re: Glyphosate - there's worse stuff in our shampoo!

    Quote Originally Posted by lifestyle
    Yes! Totally true. .... I NEVER use or recommend salt in Garden Beds or where regrowth is required at a later date.
    Just a thought - uranium, lead, asbestos, etc... all natural.
    Pyrethrins, etc.. organic, but also toxic and kill 'good guys'

    Glyphosate 450 20ltr makes about 2,500 Ltrs (at 8mL/Litre) for $85
    Nature's Avenger Organic Weed Killer Concentrate bulk 2 x 2.5 gallons (19 litres) makes 114 Litres (at 5 to 1) for $170 US (plus post) - at least 50 times more expensive!

    With the only other alternative being even more costly manual removal, Round-up continues to be the most cost effective method of controlling weeds and grass in garden beds. Round up is NOT agent orange - customers and contractors are unlikely to be changing methods in a hurry.
    David
    Mr Sparkle Car Spa

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