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Thread: Jim's Mowing Franchisees want to cut and run

  1. #16
    Senior Member Scooby Steve's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jim's Mowing Franchisees want to cut and run

    Quote Originally Posted by lawngreen
    I actually do give a F#@k! And we all should give a FireTruck!

    You see, the way I view the Lawn Mowing & Gardening Industry is that we are a bunch of operators out there working against each other, and the customers just play us off each other.

    However, when you have the likes of Jim's Mowing etc, then what you have is some glue that keeps the industry tight and together!

    You have never seen a poor Orthopaedic Surgeon, have you?

    The reason why they are not poor is they have an organistion that runs a tight ship, and they call the shots! They say how many doctors can go on to become specialists!

    In the same way, we need organisations like Jim's Mowing to flourish, because they teach their Foot Soldiers (ie the Franchisees) how to quote on jobs properly. That is, they know that the customer should pay a decent rate for good quality work!

    Don't be idiots rejoicing in Jim's demise! That would only be the end of our Industry!
    End of our industry surely you jest. This industry was alive and well long before Jim's Owing came along and will be there long after there gone. If they ever went bust our calls would increase 10 fold and i for one would be very happy.

  2. #17
    Senior Member The Local Gardener's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jim's Mowing Franchisees want to cut and run

    Quote Originally Posted by lawngreen
    I actually do give a F#@k! And we all should give a FireTruck!

    You see, the way I view the Lawn Mowing & Gardening Industry is that we are a bunch of operators out there working against each other, and the customers just play us off each other.

    However, when you have the likes of Jim's Mowing etc, then what you have is some glue that keeps the industry tight and together!

    You have never seen a poor Orthopaedic Surgeon, have you?

    The reason why they are not poor is they have an organistion that runs a tight ship, and they call the shots! They say how many doctors can go on to become specialists!

    In the same way, we need organisations like Jim's Mowing to flourish, because they teach their Foot Soldiers (ie the Franchisees) how to quote on jobs properly. That is, they know that the customer should pay a decent rate for good quality work!

    Don't be idiots rejoicing in Jim's demise! That would only be the end of our Industry!
    I will completely disagree with you here. Who do you think people will call once Jim's goes down? In actuall fact, a third of my customer base are ALL and I mean ALL x Jims, VIp'S and bull dust franchises.

    Growth industry, gold mine...ageing population, time poor, etc etc..

    and yes, some Orthopaedic surgeons are poor and no the tight ship will sink..... Hospitals are not that tight mate.. How do I know? because I was an Orthopaedic Scrub nurse..

  3. #18
    Senior Member The Local Gardener's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jim's Mowing Franchisees want to cut and run

    Quote Originally Posted by geoff
    well said black bear..well said.....i think our industry is life style earning good money...
    I am certain lawn green means well and he or she is a great person...However I have to disagree with all that you have said...I make a bloody good living, who makes x amount per day and be home by 3pm. Now do that working for someone.!!!!! Also, how do you measure happines. If $$$$ is your motivational factor, maybe this industry is not for you because you have to remember, we live in a massive country and it's all seasonal..but rest assure, there are a lot of members on this forum, who will agree with what I am saying and I will ger others who will have other thoughts and ideas. I applaud all thoughts.....

    To have my own business, my own rules my own everything is something most people envy but won't have the courage to start from scratch and take major risks. Thus the franchisees... they will sign a contract as big as Texas, to be told they can use their name and to pay them $500 odd a month, dont forget the leads off course...anyway..

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Jim's Mowing Franchisees want to cut and run

    MARK COLVIN: Until now the multimillion dollar Jim's Mowing franchise business has been seen as an enormous Australian success story but now what began as a local lawn mowing round is embroiled in internal controversy among the thousands of franchisees and the next rung up, the franchisors.

    Many of them are agitating for the removal of the group's founder and owner Jim Penman.

    Mr Penman has told PM that he won't be going anywhere and that he retains the confidence of the people working for him.

    Simon Santow reports.

    SIMON SANTOW: After Australia Post it's the biggest franchised business in Australia.

    But behind the bushy public face of what began as Jim's Mowing the smiles are beginning to fray.

    WARREN SMITH: Mainly because of the continual changes made to the way in which we operate and also the absolutely appalling service that we receive from the national office.

    SIMON SANTOW: Warren Smith is a divisional and regional franchisor of Jim's Fencing Australia and New Zealand. He's also currently suing his ultimate boss Jim Penman.

    Warren Smith is one of about 230 franchisors who help manage the Jim's Group of franchised home and garden services.

    WARREN SMITH: I would say at this time there would be the vast majority of franchisors are completely dissatisfied. I've been in this business eight years and everyone I've talked to says exactly the same thing; that they're totally peeved off with the way it's run and everything else.

    SIMON SANTOW: Chris Munday is a divisional manager for Jim's Painting and Decorating, responsible for franchises across Australia.

    CHRIS MUNDAY: What we're disappointed about is that the changes that seem to occur are outside of those conditions that are set out in the original franchise agreements.

    SIMON SANTOW: And is there any consultation?

    CHRIS MUNDAY: No, that's one of the major issues is the communication, or the lack of communication, or the style of communication in how things don't seem to come out in the proper manner.

    SIMON SANTOW: Both men say they are representative of a groundswell of dissatisfaction aimed at Jim Penman, the founder and owner of the Jim's franchise group.

    CHRIS MUNDAY: I actually think that there's significantly more franchisors disappointed in the way that things are going.

    SIMON SANTOW: PM spoke to many others who would not go on tape but they insist that Mr Penman treats them with contempt, fines them needlessly and has little regard for the people he's appointed to run his businesses.

    The franchisor's job is to manage and regulate and offer support to the individual franchisees - typically a lawn mowing business employing just one or two people to cut people's lawns.

    CHRIS MUNDAY: I think the group overall does an excellent job and I think the support is there.

    What it comes down to is the fact that processes aren't followed. And when processes are agreed to, that's more of an issue for us than anything else.

    I think we're expected to live by contracts as we do when we buy houses or any other type of thing and it's got to be done from both sides.

    http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2009/s2719344.htm

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  5. #20
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    Default Re: Jim's Mowing Franchisees want to cut and run

    A LITTLE BACKGROUND ON PAUL CARR .

    http://www.thebfa.org/casestudies.as...getype=include

    From corporate high-flyer to garden keeper:
    Paul Carr saw an investment opportunity in Jim’s Mowing too good to refuse

    Paul Carr stumbled upon an opportunity to trade in his high-flying financial career for a shiny green, 15 horse powered, ride-on lawn mower after being an accountant of more than 25 years.

    He’s now the Co-director and the Regional Franchisor for Norfolk of Jim’s Mowing, a gardening and domestic services franchise with more than 2500 franchisees worldwide.

    Formerly Finance Director at Warranty Holdings, Financial Controller at Hermes, Overseas Finance Manager, Willis and Chief Accountant at Burberry, it was no small decision for Paul to throw in his well-established, high-earning career and relocate his family from London to Norfolk.

    “My wife took a fair bit of convincing. Not for the fact it was a risky business proposition but she was concerned with how I’d cope with the physical labour side of things. That is one factor, there is work involved with Jim’s Mowing, but the smell of fresh cut of clean grass, and the satisfaction of doing a really great job on a person’s yard and home holds a lot more appeal to me than sitting behind a desk all day.

    “My accountancy friends thought I was quite mad at the time – many of them still do – but I saw it as a lifestyle choice as much as an investment decision. Plus, Jim’s gave me the opportunity to become my own boss. I saw this as a huge incentive,” he said.

    Prior to becoming a “Jim”, Paul’s day comprised joining the throngs on the tube, sitting at a desk or in meetings for at least eight hours and commuting home again – just to get up and do it all again in the morning.



    http://www.indmowing.com.au/forum/sh...t=class+action
    Last edited by administrator; 21-10-2009 at 11:14 AM.

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  6. #21
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    Default Re: Jim's Mowing Franchisees want to cut and run

    Franchise Companys need new Laws .

    "The law is pathetically weak,"


    http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/ji...0911-fkfs.html

    His comments come as the South Australian parliament moved a step closer to franchising laws for the state after unanimously passing a motion moved by Labor MP Tony Piccolo last week.

    And Mr Piccolo believes his Labor colleagues in other states could also act if nothing is done nationally.

    The South Australian motion was moved in frustration over Mr Piccolo's federal counterparts' seeming inaction in implementing the recommendations of a parliamentary inquiry into the franchising code of conduct.

    Among that inquiry's conclusions, which were tabled in Canberra in December last year, were a requirement for "good faith" negotiations between franchisors and franchisees, monetary penalties for breaches of the code, and greater powers for the Australian Competion and Consumer Commission to investigate suspected infringements.

    Many observers of the $128-billion-a-year industry have been frustrated at a seeming lack of progress since the inquiry, as several high-profile franchises - such as Midas, Kleenmaid and Ezy DVD have collapsed in recent months.

    In May, WAtoday.com.au revealed a rift developing between state and federal Labor, as Mr Piccolo ramped up the pressure by threatening to introduce state laws, even though he, and most others, believe federal legislation would be more effective.

    Federal small business minister Craig Emerson released an "options paper" in response, inviting comment on the recommendations and a promise for a Government response by the end of July.

    But as the July deadline has come and gone, with no response in sight, frustration has continued to grow. Mr Penman broke ranks with the major organisation representing franchisors, the Franchise Council of Australia, when he told WAtoday.com.au that it was time for major franchisors to stand up for "what was right".

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  7. #22
    Senior Member Bluey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jim's Mowing Franchisees want to cut and run

    Some interesting reading here with responses by Jim P himself.
    Cheers

    Bluey
    Adelaide Home & Garden Solutions
    http://www.ahgs.com.au


    "Success occurs when no one is looking, failure occurs when everyone is watching."

  8. #23
    Guest redbackmowing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jim's Mowing Franchisees want to cut and run

    i guess some people may see jims as raising the standard for lawnmowing but must realize vip was doing what he did well before him. what he has done is not revolutionary. give the credit to kfc & burger king. he only followed using a different business. i've got work from franchisees shody work so raising the standards has no real weight to it. Maybe its a false perception that the general public think. jims/vip may charge to the eyeball which i guess has helped us charge more as well. customers are more accepting of a higher quote. if he does get ousted, (which i find it hard to believe he would ever put himself in that position by having that avenue open), i'm sure jims will continue. but for how long & what capacity? who knows? just look after your own backyard, quote a price your happy to do the work for. it'll be all good. long live the indy!

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Jim's Mowing Franchisees want to cut and run

    Thanks for the kind thoughts guys. I am sure Jims will be here for many decades to come, despite most of you all wishing over 3000 family businesses to simultaneously close.

    Real friendly folk around here, and Rooread says thanks for his birthday card, even though he is still banned from posting.

  10. #25
    Guest redbackmowing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jim's Mowing Franchisees want to cut and run

    Quote Originally Posted by cammos
    Thanks for the kind thoughts guys. I am sure Jims will be here for many decades to come, despite most of you all wishing over 3000 family businesses to simultaneously close.

    Real friendly folk around here, and Rooread says thanks for his birthday card, even though he is still banned from posting.
    i can't see how or wish 3000 family businesses would close. they all have their equipment & customers. best of all they don't have to pay the monthly fees & for leads. they would finally have the business the wanted. in these tough times there have been plenty of businesses close. obviously there is a hugh discontent within jims. but doubling the fees in these times of economic crisis & drought in most parts is absolute foolish, no regard to his franchisees & their families. how can he justify this hike in fees. what to run a call centre or too get him out of debt for the uk debacle. i'm sure jim had grand plans to take over the mowing industry. i'm sure a high % of franchisees would like to run their business without the contraints of the franchise contract. it all looks good on paper but once their out there doing the hard yards the reality soon hits home. yes we are nice folks around here. i'm sure on jims old forum us indies would of received some real kind thoughts also.

    cheers

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Jim's Mowing Franchisees want to cut and run

    http://www.bluemaumau.org/jim%E2%80%...ising%E2%80%99



    By Guest Jims
    2009-10-19 06:26
    Jim's Legal Accountablity
    I think KG you will find that Jim says one thing and his actions are completely the opposite.

    I think you will find (and correct me if I am wrong Jim) is that he use to run with advise from Solicitors whereby he has not given them the whole story or clauses for that matter, he then run's with what the solicitor has advised him based on Jims view of the agreement, it must of gotten that bad whereby the Solicitors in the end could not condone or win the cases based on "Jims interpretation" of the contract, he then figured he needed to employ a person who had obtained some form of a law degree to justify his whims.

    Hence we now have internal legislation (due to his employment of a Solicitor) based on his whims and not on (in the past even the knowledge of previous CEOs who were actually experienced in the business) actual experience or knowledge of the many contracts out there being held by current regional’s etc, this leave us as the unfortunate player to play catch up with our own legal advisers and out of fear of unjust termination, we have no choice but to condone the new Jims legal regime.

    This has to be stopped so it unfortunately meant that what it will take is not only to legally discredit Jim (costly) and his whims but also his adviser’s who obviously are in it for the “job” and not the long term benefits for us the franchisees.

    Do we fight for our rights? Or just hope to sell out for the best price we can so we don’t have to suffer this underhanded bull**** infinitum?

    You are now locked in now with the ever changing contract, it should be easier to take on the Jims system and let us the “little guys or poor saps” make them take legal accountability and all the respondents in Jim’s world pay for our pain! But "apathy" reign supreme’s sadly.

    I beg to question his adviser’s and in fact would like to think any form of legal “class action” brings those same advisors/deputies into court as respondents and accountable for our losses and costs, if they want to support his actions then they should be prepared to pay the cost that is accrued accordingly.
    reply
    By Guest
    2009-10-19 18:41
    I could not agree more, Jims
    I could not agree more, Jims franchisors had better get up off their butts and start being more unified and pro active, hiding away in your cave is playing straight into his arms. Soon if this does not change you will awake from your hibernation to find you have nothing left!

    WAKE UP AND STAND UP!
    reply
    By guest 1
    2009-10-19 21:36
    Totally agree.
    Totally agree. Franchisors/divisionals get off your bums and work together to get rid of JIM for JIM'S as a whole.
    The only way we can move forward is to band together or just put up with crap we have been getting.
    This is not what i joined JIM'S for.
    reply
    By Guest
    2009-10-18 03:29
    Jims Loss of Pretense
    You will all no doubt read and hear a lot about Jim's temper losses (and memory ones) but what it really is about is a loss of his pretense.

    Some examples of that are based on his actual statements below.

    "My franchisees mean everything to me"
    This is a pretense, asks any divisional, regional or for that matter franchisee who has questioned him about anything what "everything" really means.

    "Customer service is paramount to me"
    This is a pretense; ask any customer that Jim himself has had to reach for a cheque book in order for their complaint to be satisfied what "paramount" really means.

    "Money is of no real interest to me"
    This is a pretense; ask anyone that has had a dispute with Jim over money related issues what "no real interest" means.

    "I totally agree"
    Is a pretense, ask anyone who he has said that to over any issue what his version of "totally agree" really means and just as importantly what he actually does about it.

    "That’s Outrageous"
    Is a pretense, ask those he runs that gem past on a regular basis how the crime described to him matches his own to a tee and you will soon see who is really "outrageous"

    "It's only fair that it applies to me as well"
    Is a pretense, ask anyone that seeks that he be put in the same situation to see what is version of "only fair it applies to me" really means.

    The examples could continue on and on but by now you the reader will have hopefully gotten my point and if you are in Jims, will have no doubt experienced some if not all the examples listed above.

    So when we hear about him so called, losing his temper etc, what we are really seeing is him losing his PRETENSE!
    reply
    By Guest
    2009-10-18 03:41
    Another long list of
    Another long list of "pretenses" all can refer/relate to below.

    Jim’s Group Values

    Our first priority is to service Franchisees

    We are also passionate about customer service

    We work constantly to improve our service and lower our costs

    We put performance before display

    We sign only Franchisees and Franchisors we are convinced will succeed

    We put the long-term welfare of the group before short-term profit

    We treat staff well but require them to perform superbly

    As far as practical, we treat people as equals.
    reply
    By Guest Jims
    2009-10-19 06:40
    Sounds like "Guest" you have
    Sounds like "Guest" you have been in Jim's for along time, are you one of the Trainers?

    I am sure I was delivered the same 'blurb" however after 5 years am yet to see it!
    reply
    By Tom89
    2009-10-17 09:22
    Jim's Bookkeeping Business
    Does anyone here own an Jim's Book keeping business? Just wanted to get your opinion and feedback on the way Jim's BookKeeping Business operates ... I read a lot of negative feedback here, but from what I can gather it relates to the Pool service business?
    reply
    By Guest
    2009-10-17 17:12
    Tom the feedback here entails
    Tom the feedback here entails ALL of Jim's not just pools, suggest you read a little closer!
    reply By Guest
    2009-10-17 09:50
    SUCCESS?
    So how successful have "Pools" been over the last few years Jim? Before the termination of the Divisional?

    Tell us all - how long have the problems been thrown to you about "Pools" (and others), before you do anything?

    Who buys these Divisions, and what info are they given?

    Jim has already admitted to a few boo boos re the law (the pool franchisee being just one)....don't be the next victim
    reply
    By "Intuit"
    2009-10-16 03:16
    RESEARCH - New Divsions
    It is important to understand that once you hand over your money that’s it, so you really need to do your due diligence thoroughly.

    Remembering Business Advisers and Solicitors are important to check the contracts etc but YOU have to be the one to work out whether you can establish a National franchise whether it is with Jim or not. You have to work out can you survive in this regime and or your business model can be successful. More importantly what happens if YOU fail?

    Disclosure Document:
    Ring all of the people listed in this document to gage the franchisor not just a couple and certainly treat the people you have been advised to speak to with a certain amount of cynical caution. Create an interview sheet with a list of questions to keep you on track of any concerns or questions you want to ask about the franchisor/business model. You need the truth so really dig deep and research after all this could save you a substantial amount of money but also a lot of grief and distress should you fail. Making the wrong decision impacts on FAMILIES so open your eyes.

    Ring the failed Divisions previous owners and re-sellers, what happened to them?

    Read the Litigation Page, if there are current litigation cases note what they are about and do the cases repeat themselves eg: repeated Breaches of Contract.

    Agreement:
    Spend the money on a Solicitor to have it really checked thoroughly. When interviewing the other franchisors find out whether they are happy with their agreements. Is there anything in the agreement they would change now that they have been in the business for x amount of time.

    How exactly are you being paid? Based on what? Is any money withheld for any reason?

    How many franchisors/divisional have been terminated? Vote Outs? Franchisee lack of support? Lack of payments (this question could mean the business just isnt making money)? How long had they been in the business? What happened to them?

    Be wary of a representative of the Franchise Company or Jims in this case who denigrates the previous owner dismissively eg: He was no good! The franchisees hated him etc? It could well be the franchisees were not making money because the business was not viable in the first place.

    When going through the process of looking into starting a business with Jim and or his representatives, take notes all of the way through and record any promises eg: you can have 30 franchisees in a 300 thousand household area etc etc, you can have 100 franchisees Australia wide in 2 years?

    Do your own business plan, how many franchisees do you need to make the required income (based on fees only) this is important. What are Jim’s expectations from you? How much work do you need for your franchisees? Can you get work eg: customers a loyal to their current suppliers so HOW do you extract that business? Use your common sense.

    Review the Divisions in the Jims examples of failures and think about the type of business. How similar are they to your business as this could mean you could be one of those failures.

    Be very very careful of retail shop franchising in Jims I don’t believe they have ever had a success.

    More importantly and this is in the Jim's scenario do you actually trust him? After all of your research and due dilligence use your "Intuit"

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  12. #27
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    Default Re: Jim's Mowing Franchisees want to cut and run

    Quote Originally Posted by cammos
    Thanks for the kind thoughts guys. I am sure Jims will be here for many decades to come, despite most of you all wishing over 3000 family businesses to simultaneously close.

    Real friendly folk around here, and Rooread says thanks for his birthday card, even though he is still banned from posting.
    Who, easy Tiger! I haven't read any on this thread wishing Jim's members close down. A few news articles were being discussed and would jims closing affect indies...

    You seem a bit touchy, you shouldnt be if you really think jims will still be here in decades

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Jim's Mowing Franchisees want to cut and run

    http://www.bluemaumau.org/jim%E2%80%...ising%E2%80%99

    By Guest JIM'S
    2009-10-20 19:27
    Jim's Media Spin
    Having been in Jim's for awhile one has to be amused at Jim's responses to all of the media heat that has been "boiling" up. All responses are done is his typical style like that of a magician "distraction & deflection", this master politician only fools, fools and the uninitiated to his ways, to help all understand what he is really saying see below.

    FRANCHISEES
    JP: My Franchisees need me; I have to protect them from the “nasty” Regional’s franchisees! They do not have the resources..!
    Reality: Wow, this one is gold, I have witnessed as have others Jim’s treatment of franchisees who “dare” to questions him or dispute a workmanship issue. He treats these franchisees with utmost contempt.
    The reason why Jims is so successful is that the Regional’s directly support franchisees in their local regions which makes sense and that is why we are so big, without the Regional’s there would be a very small Victorian Jims Mowing. How does Jim treat his Regional’s with utmost contempt!
    Jim is the most appalling franchisor one could have, he continually uses the law while ignoring it himself to frustrate you and break you at every turn, his façade of being a white knight in the industry is just that, a façade, ask any one who really knows how he operates.

    CURRENT REFS
    JP: There are only about 8 franchisors who are unhappy.....probably about 20% of my Regional franchisees are unhappy....
    Reality:
    Back in 2005 we an internal had a vote out, Jim had only been in the chair as CEO for a year so it was very fresh according to the staff who checked the vote Jim only JUST skated in to keep his CEO.
    As for the magic number 8 he then goes on to say 20% of them, that = 45 depending on what base you work off, the reality is more like 80% or more want him gone!

    VOTE OUT:
    JP: I will go if the Regional’s and (this is new) the Franchisees want me gone!
    Reality:
    The bottom line is we all know Jim will not go and he certainly is not contractually obliged to. If there was a vote out and all asked him to go Jim will simply put his business on the market for an incredibly inflated price. The fact of the matter is if Jim lets go of control of the company and puts it in a team of professional’s hands, all/most would be very happy for him to keep his business the idea of him as the groups marketing figure is far more value to us than him in the current chair pushing all the levers and knobs furiously and damaging our livelihoods.
    The other thing to consider here is he is pulling in franchisees into the vote process (more proof he knows he has very little support) which is totally wrong, they have very little exposure to the real him and his ways they are protected from his ravages by the franchisors, the franchisors are his franchisees and as such are the only ones who should as in the past be rightfully qualified to a vote of NO confidence.

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  14. #29
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    Default Re: Jim's Mowing Franchisees want to cut and run

    Replacing the CEO Jim Penman doesnt mean that Jims Mowing will crumble .

    The group is strong enough to get through that little hickup

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  15. #30
    Senior Member Bluey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jim's Mowing Franchisees want to cut and run

    Maybe this is the future of Jim's. Saw this at a set of traffic lights yesterday and quickly snapped a photo. Have a close look at the passenger seat.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Cheers

    Bluey
    Adelaide Home & Garden Solutions
    http://www.ahgs.com.au


    "Success occurs when no one is looking, failure occurs when everyone is watching."

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