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Thread: Tenders

  1. #16
    Dedicated Member Cranbourne Lawnmowing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tenders

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris B View Post
    far out what are you left with after fuel?
    Exactly right. I was talking to them after they had just done a small cul de sac a couple of doors up from my place and he said it would have cost them more in fuel unloading the gear than they would have made on the job.

  2. #17
    Member Mick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tenders

    My local mechanic/dealer used to do part of the city parks etc here. I think he said, from memory the guys these days are around $0.025/m2.
    He ended up with huge debt, got into ressy mowing and has slowly faded that out now he has the shop. His son still does a few for him though. He's passed work onto me at times!
    A really good, very knowledgeable guy!
    He once told me not to get involved! I believe him!

    They would be doing 100's thousands m2. Lets say 200000m2 (49 acres) x 0.03= $6000 1 ztr operator could mow 20 odd acres a day (depending on drive time, size of open areas etc)
    Thats what they think anyway!
    Labour, maintenance, vehicle costs are huge and very stressful especially catch up after rain. Lots of bureaucracy, rules, regulations etc.


    I know of a large mob that came up here from Sydney thinking they could take over. They lasted one year and left! Usually 2yr contracts. Seems some areas come up for tender every year when they shouldnt.
    People are going in to low not knowing the difficulties and costs. They dont last!

    Thing is, they are very hard to put a true value/cost onto. Some areas require HEAPS of trimming, others like large open areas require less trimming but still, guys need to walk all over trimming around trees, ditches, bollards, signs etc. How to average that to a square meter rte would do my head in.

    There is also a very high risk of liability. One lot I helped out for a while, trimmers broke 5 car windows in a day on a busy road. Thats gonna hurt the bottom line for sure. Those guys went under or quit as well!

  3. #18
    Dedicated Member Cranbourne Lawnmowing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tenders

    Not sure what its like in other areas but in Casey if its the peak of the growing season and you leave an area looking messy ie clumps of grass everywhere, you get the local residents calling the local paper to complain about the job that is being done. What they don't understand is that you cant just turn up in 2 weeks instead of 3 and still get paid for it. Even though some of these places will be up to your knees in 3 weeks.

  4. #19
    Senior Member Chris B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tenders

    do any smaller solo operators do the council stuff or just bigger companies with heaps of trucks?
    seems like around my area a lot of the grass is cut by council workers . well im just assuming as they all have the same setup with council truck n trailer and mainly john deere or toro diesels

  5. #20
    Member Mick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tenders

    The Gold Coast is broken up into areas, some have multiple suburbs. There are a few companies that do the different areas.
    The ones I usually see have several Scag TT's and 5 or 6 trimmers following the mowers. Others have JD's Toros, Iseki outfronts.
    They are all subbed to the council. The council looks after some sporting fields with large tractors with finish mowers and Ive seen them sometimes helping out the subbies.
    There is one particular company called Skyline that looks after (I assume) a few "areas." They are a big company, probably the biggest on the Coast.

    In the past Ive worked/helped out one small company a few times. I have heard that Skyline does sub out some work but not sure.
    I think, if you want to get into it you should talk to the bigger guys and ask to do some subby work for them. I doubt very much if they'll want to pay your rates though given that they dont make a lot themselves.

    If you want to get into that sort of work, be aware that there are (here at least) rules. Minimum deck/cut heights for example. Here they are low at 1.5" I think it was. Cutting that low means huge risk of hitting stuff. Im always seeing lawns done with a bent blade. Also punctures are common from broken glass. Its not uncommon to see spare wheels on the back of the trucks.

    Im only going off what I see, have heard and experience here. Other places/cities/states may be different.

  6. #21
    Dedicated Member Cranbourne Lawnmowing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tenders

    Cant say I've seen any actual council workers doing the work for a while. The bigger companies I see are using JD's ,toro and (i'm not sure exactly but it has tiger on it). There is a business I'm seeing doing more and more around here that has a couple of huskies and about 6 blokes on push mowers. The guys on the push mowers seem a bit simple so I reckon they are being well under paid. They do a good job though and can get through a large area in a very short time.

    Have also seen a few guys using cub cadet tanks. Which I'm happy about as it makes me feel like I have got a machine that is up for the job.

  7. #22
    Member Mick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tenders

    Is it something you would like to get into yourself or just be a subby? If you want to get into it, you will need to spend a lot of money. One machine wont do it. That sort of work is very hard on machines, put a heap of hours on very quickly and need to find good operators for other machines and Ive seen what these guys can do. (BMX track getting air for example) Then there's the trimmer guys and possibly and mechanic. If you live in suburbia you'll need a shed/yard to store all the equipment, have office, workshop etc.

    I dont mean to be all negative with this, just sharing my experience, what I see and know.

    The work I did helping a mob out was great. Mowing large parks was fun and they did pay my rate at the time but that was several years ago when times were better. But I also cut some stuff that should of been done by a slasher. Very hard on machine!

    The company that came from Sydney asked me to sub for them, they didnt want to pay my rate and would only pay by machine hour, no travel, picking up rubbish, gates etc. Travel I could deal with but the hour meter on my machine only ticked over when the blades were turning. I had that modified to work from start to shut down but didnt get any work out of them anyway. Then they went broke! haa

    Just go and speak to a few of these companies and ask if they'll sub you out. Better than the headache of running the entire show.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Chris B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tenders

    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post

    They would be doing 100's thousands m2. Lets say 200000m2 (49 acres) x 0.03= $6000 1 ztr operator could mow 20 odd acres a day (depending on drive time, size of open areas etc)
    Thats what they think anyway!
    Labour, maintenance, vehicle costs are huge and very stressful especially catch up after rain. Lots of bureaucracy, rules, regulations etc.

    that actually doesnt sound too bad if you can do that much in a day... trimming and spraying etc would be the crap part though...


    i was just curious really .... i wouldnt be interested if i can make more money doing small / med commercial etc.. but im sure there would have to be some money in it otherwise it aint worth the investment risk???

  9. #24
    Member Mick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tenders

    I dont mean to scare you off it.

    Im sure others on here have experience with this too. But at the end of the day, its about how much you actually keep in your pocket.
    2 or 3 ztrs, couple of utes with trailers or trucks (regos and insurances), another ute or 2 for the trimmers and all there gear, FUEL, shed and costs, tools, mechanic, down time on broken machines and spare parts etc etc. Rain delays then extra time to catch back up. Finding good employees, probably 6 or 7 of them and associated costs.

    Im sure 2 ztrs could mow 50acres a day if there a couple of large open parks with little trimming but its when they are parks with 1000 bollards+ trees, drains, slopes, footpaths etc is when it all falls apart.

    I used to maintain this small park, http://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Win...sland&t=h&z=19
    With the square edging, trimming and bollards, extremely fast growing grass it could take me 3.5hrs. Have a look on Streetview to get a better idea. The images were taken at the time I was looking after it.
    I used to maintain that entire development, well, theres a bit more to it in the pic now actually. All the footpaths, nature strips, drainage ditches etc. Was a big job done on my own.
    Mowing was easy, it was the edging and trimming that was the killer.

    I see guys working on this place all the time. A nightmare! Its much bigger than it looks believe me. I used to walk my dog there! Do a street view from the round about! Look how many bollards there are, all need trimming.
    http://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=tal...ueensland&z=17

  10. #25
    Senior Member Scooby Steve's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tenders

    Its not what u know but who when it comes to council/government contracts .

  11. #26
    Senior Member Chris B's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tenders

    thats a lot of trimming mick
    dont worry im not scared off by hard work... only not getting paid well for it

    and scooby that doesnt really suprise me hehe

  12. #27
    Member Valley Lawnmowing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tenders

    About 85% of my work is council contract,About 4 or 5 contractors inc myself all are solo here so its very competitive.It's all based on price not contractor performance or machine capabilities.One guy i know been doing roadside for 20 years lost contracts this time so there's no loyalty what soever.I lost one 12 acre job to a guy that does a lot of resi work in the area,he does it on a 46" ride on and doing a pretty good job so good luck to him but fark he would'nt be making much out of it,time will tell i guess.i,ve picked up from other contractors that bailed out halfway through before,they go in to low don't realize the costs involved,But only way to find out is to get into it or like mick said look for some subby work to save a few headaches lol

  13. #28
    Member Mick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tenders

    I received an email from a company recently asking me about all this (potential subby jobs for me). Im sure they where just trying to get an idea how much to quote for themselves. Areas where Northern NSW ressy acreage and council parks, verges etc. My mowing price was similar to whats been mentioned here but trimming would of been done on an hourly rate.

    Hey Valley, do you mind putting up the "approximate" rates they are accepting? 12 acres on a 46" machine. Thats insane! Is it the council subbing this all out or someone has the tender and is subbing it out?

  14. #29
    Member Valley Lawnmowing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tenders

    Most of the contracts are a fixed price,some do require an hourly rate as well,so christ this bloke on his 46" i don't how long it takes him but i reckon he would'nt make more than 50 per hour? Council have a crew that do the "good jobs" and sub the Sh!t ones out of coarse,but i think there was company that had tenders a few years back subbed it out,dont' think they did real well though?

  15. #30
    Senior Member SunM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tenders

    To give you guys a bit more of an idea of how big crews are for council contracts. The mowing contract based out of the depot I work at (I work on a different contract but same company) has ~25 mowers; 6ft front deck mowers, 16ft front deck with those wing mowers that fold down and several tractors 1 with a big slasher trailer with 3 slashers on it. We have at peak times ~60 staff including casuals (most are full timers) and if it really gets bad like the Melbourne weather does (rain one day and sunshine the next) then private contractors are brought in to help with the load. Most of the crews run with a truck/trailer with 1 guy mowing and 1 guy brush cutting, larger areas just have the edges cut and either the 16ft Toros or tractors finish it up. Theres got to be a fair bit of money involved in these contracts because they would have dropped about $500k on new mowers/trucks in the last year.
    Cert III Arborist

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