Glyphosate, Good for what ails you

Originally Posted by glassngrass

I'll consider carefully how to word it and post tomorrow...

Bugger that, fire away... then i can sleep on the answer for you until early tomorrow...

[glassngrass]

Snippets of previous posts:

Originally Posted by lifestyle

ROUNDUP AND THE ENVIRONMENT
Roundup has been found to be highly deadly to tadpoles

"...Given the marketing of glyphosate herbicides as benign, it is striking that laboratory studies have found adverse effects in all standard categories of laboratory toxicology testing. These include medium-term toxicity..., long-term toxicity ..., genetic damage (in human blood cells), effects on reproduction (reduced sperm counts in rats; increased frequency of abnormal sperm in rabbits), and carcinogenicity..."

Chemical Build up in the environment and in the body is not only direct but can be passed on to others (our kids, family, pets, wildlife etc,)....

:Unfortunately the old "Two Headed Tasmanian" saying may not be too far from the truth in a few years time. Chemicals are slowly changing cellular structure (evident by things like cancer and birth defects)...

Well since our daughter is missing q11 to q13 of the 15th chromosome resulting in her not being able to walk or talk. She's 9 years old and still in nappies. She has severe epilepsy requiring constant monitoring and medication (Angelmans Syndrome). I think i have first hand experience with the results of chemical exposure.

Before my kids were born i was a chemical spraying junkie. Im not assuming it was the only reason but my hundreds of hours of research have concluded that my blindness at the time, of the long term systemic effects of chemical build up in the body played a large part in Bethany's disability.

I could get personal and go into my low sperm count and associated problems...

You refer to chemical build up in the body and irreversable genetic damage. With a healthy lifestyle the body can be helped to cleanse itself of the toxic load, however genetic damage cannot be repaired.
You concluded that your prior 'chemical spraying junkie' attitude and "long term systemic effects of chemical build up in the body played a large part in Bethany's disability."
Despite this you advise :

Originally Posted by lifestyle

We have been trying for a third child for 7 years.

On the surface this seems to me the most reckless and irresponsible decision I think I've ever heard! I appreciate that you want others to avoid going thru the experience you have had, and yet you would accept a very real (and significantly increased) risk yourself?
We all weigh up risks and choose individually, hey!

Originally Posted by lifestyle

:Unfortunately the old "Two Headed Tasmanian" saying may not be too far from the truth in a few years time.

I do sincerely hope that your desire for a third and perfectly happy AND healthy child is fullfilled.
I also recall:

Originally Posted by lifestyle

my Uncle, who has a learning disabiltiy...

Perhaps you mislead us somewhat in attributing genetic problems to YOUR chemical use. Either way, you have strong evidence of genetic problems in your family, particularly in yourself, and despite wanting US to change the way WE operate in order to avoid going through your experience - for you it's "business as usuall"!

As, you say, Toxic loads can be leached from the body through detox programs and the like. We've had a chemical free lifestyle for some time. And still use detox programs on a regular basis.

Most people exposed to chemicals on a regular basis don't know they have been exposed due to the over use of chemicals in the environment. Because most have been exposed without knowledge, they don't practice detoxification procedures.

My Uncles Learning problems where NOT genetic. He was born at the end of WWII in a country town and spent 90% of his school days "on the farm". He also contracted polio. Not sure what that has to do with the subject at hand .

I don't have genetic problems myself. I MAY have passed genetic problems on... Having damaged eggs or sperm does not give one genetic problems, it just means we have potential to pass genetic problems on...

Still waiting for your question

Or was your question only a statement ?

EDIT: Got to head out... will wait for your question ?

[glassngrass]

Originally Posted by lifestyle

I don't have genetic problems myself. I MAY have passed genetic problems on... Having damaged eggs or sperm does not give one genetic problems, it just means we have potential to pass genetic problems on...

You readily acknowledge you have damaged cells, including reproductive cells, and a much greater likelyhood of passing these on an any further offspring.

Originally Posted by lifestyle

my low sperm count and associated problems

I worry that you feel the risk of deformities, etc... from use of chemicals is unacceptable for US to take, and yet although a much higher risk is in you from your past excessive use, this is acceptable?

Originally Posted by lifestyle

:Unfortunately the old "Two Headed Tasmanian" saying may not be too far from the truth in a few years time.

Question :
Sniff Sniff - is that the smell of hypocrisy?

If you need me to explain detoxification to you let me know as that seems to be where your coming from. We have practiced regular detixification for the past seven years.

Funny thing, I was in Bunnings today and asked the Garden Centre Staff if she could point me in the direction of an Organic Herbicide. She found a pressure spray bottle and i asked her what the active ingredient was, she looked at the bottle and replied (Salt & Vinegar) - Acetic Acid & Sodium Chloride - go figure.

I was in Launceston Today seeing the Endocronologist. It appears i may have what is called a Prolactinoma (often referred to as a Brain Tumor - but not the cancerous type).

She asked me if i am taking any sort of medications that could raise prolactin levels, to which i said no, however, upon asking me what my profession was she quickly jumped in questioning me on what chemicals i use and what there base ingredients were. I answered that quickly with an "I only use Organic Methods".

[glassngrass]

The question is not related to detoxification - I'll assume you are now 'clean as a whistle'.

Problem is the damage to your body is already done. Whilst even in healthy, careful people things can and sometimes do go horribly wrong with their unborn child (genetically), would not this be much more likely when one parent, although now clean of toxic substances, has already been irreversably damaged - or has the damage to your body somehow avoided your reproductive system and so cannot be passed on?

Again you said "Having damaged eggs or sperm does not give one genetic problems, it just means we have potential to pass genetic problems on..."

Is there not vastly greater potential to pass genetic problems on?

This seems a risk you have weighed for yourself and deemed acceptable.

Originally Posted by glassngrass

The question is not related to detoxification - I'll assume you are now 'clean as a whistle'.

Problem is the damage to your body is already done. Whilst even in healthy, careful people things can and sometimes do go horribly wrong with their unborn child (genetically), would not this be much more likely when one parent, although now clean of toxic substances, has already been irreversably damaged - or has the damage to your body somehow avoided your reproductive system and so cannot be passed on?

Again you said "Having damaged eggs or sperm does not give one genetic problems, it just means we have potential to pass genetic problems on..."

Is there not vastly greater potential to pass genetic problems on?

This seems a risk you have weighed for yourself and deemed acceptable.

Genetic damage to unborn children is just one reason to avoid chemicals, but since you are going down that path....

If i was exposed to chemicals on a daily basis and didn't give them a second thought then discovered we had a baby on the way, the potential for that child to have some form of genetic damage is increased.

If a childs mother is a heroin addict she has the potential to pass that addiction on to her child. Children born of Heroin addicts are often required to go through a detox program immediately after birth. If the Childs mother cleaned her habit during her pregnancy, the child could still have problems after birth (Mutations and genetic damage) but the child wouldn't likely have the addiction at birth (though possible).

If chemical exposure occured within weeks prior to conception, damage to the sperm or ovum could result in the individual sperm having genetic mutations or even deletions of certain cells within the sperm (or ovum).

I'll use Bethany as an example...

The deleted region on chromosome 15 is known to contain genes that are activated or inactivated depending upon the chromosome's parent of origin (i.e., a gene may be turned on on the chromosome 15 inherited from the mother but off on the chromosome 15 inherited from the father). This parent-specific gene activation is referred to as genetic imprinting. Because the deletions seen in Angelman Syndrome only occur on the chromosome 15 inherited from the mother, the gene(s) responsible for Angelman Syndrome were predicted to be active only on the maternal chromosome 15. Disruption of genes that are active on the paternally-derived chromosome 15 is now known to cause another developmental disorder termed the Prader-Willi syndrome (PWS). The PWS gene(s) are actually located close to the AS gene, but they are different.

I'm not fully aware of how genetics work but using this example

IF and I say IF I was susposed to pass on an XY chromosome to my kids and Mum, was susposed to supply the XX factor then damaged sperm (whether due to morphing caused by chemical exposure on my part or other factor) MAY have caused a "XX", "YY" or just "X" or just "Y" chromosome

So although Angelman Syndrome is the result of the chromosome inherited from the mother, my chemical exposure may well have switched off the ability for the two sets of chromosomes to combine as required causing the deletion. In some situations its a damaged section of the same chromosome but still classed as Angelman Syndrome.

[Bluey]

Errrrr.......say that again???????

Originally Posted by Bluey

Errrrr.......say that again???????

Don't take my word for it mate... Do some research.

[Bluey]

Mate it just didn't read ok to me that's all. I think what David is saying here is if there is a chance your use of weed killers will have an effect on any unborn child why would you risk it. Personally I wouldn't.

You have a terrible situation with Bethany already. How does your wife feel about trying for another.

Now here's a thought. Why not adopt. Give a homeless child a good home and not risk the side effects of your exposure. Seems a win win to me.

Originally Posted by Bluey

Mate it just didn't read ok to me that's all. I think what David is saying here is if there is a chance your use of weed killers will have an effect on any unborn child why would you risk it. Personally I wouldn't.

You have a terrible situation with Bethany already. How does your wife feel about trying for another.

Now here's a thought. Why not adopt. Give a homeless child a good home and not risk the side effects of your exposure. Seems a win win to me.

Yes Bluey, remember your preaching to the saved here. I haven't touched chemicals for several years.

You hit the nail on the head, however, in saying "Why would you risk it", thats the point i have been making from the beginning of this thread.

The majority here seem to say glyphosate...

- is cheap
- it works
- saves time
- saves manual labour

but no one has mentioned the "what if" factor. If there is any potential there to cause problems regardless of how small, as you say... "why would you risk it".

Kamba M is another "Bug Bear" of mine.

It is promoted as having "...the Disruptors of plant cell
growth mode of action..." Hello ? If it disrupts plant cells, what evidence is there it doesn't disrupt the sells of humans & animals as well ?

From...

http://www.garrards.com.au/zone_file...m_24107588.pdf

"...Harmful if absorbed by skin contact, inhaled or swallowed. Will irritate the eyes and skin. DO NOT inhale vapour. Repeated exposure may cause allergic disorders. When opening the container and preparing the spray wear cotton overalls buttoned to the neck
and wrist, washable hat, elbow length PVC gloves, face shield or goggles. When using the prepared spray wear cotton overalls buttoned to the neck and wrist, washable hat and elbow length PVC gloves. If product in eyes, wash out immediately with water. If
product on skin, immediately wash area with soap and water. After use and before eating, drinking or smoking, wash hands, arms and face thoroughly with soap and water. After each days use, wash gloves, face shield or goggles and contaminated clothing..."

"... Nufarm Australia Limited (‘Nufarm’) shall not be liable for any loss injury damage or death whether consequential or otherwise whatsoever or howsoever arising whether through negligence or otherwise in connection with the sale supply use or application of
this product. The supply of this product is on the express condition that the purchaser does not rely on Nufarm’s skill or judgment in purchasing or using the same and every person dealing with this product does so at his own risk absolutely. No representative
of Nufarm has any authority to add to or alter these conditions..."

[glassngrass]

Mmmm. Kamba-M, my other favorite. Between Roundup (glyphosate), Kamba-M (MCPA salts and Dicamba blah blah blah!), and occassionally bending down to pick up a weed, we got weeds beat!

[glassngrass]

Originally Posted by Bluey

Mate it just didn't read ok to me that's all. I think what David is saying here is if there is a chance your use of weed killers will have an effect on any unborn child why would you risk it. Personally I wouldn't.

Eric

Bluey picked up on my thought you haven't quite grasped yet.
It is not just chemicals that cause deformities and mutations, but reproductive cells that have already been damaged by past chemical exposure that have a much greater chance of producing eggs/sperm with messed up DNA.

Although you are clean NOW you mentioned low sperm count -this means the effects of PAST exposure are ongoing for you. More importantly, what about sperm QUALITY. How is it you are prepared to guarantee this isn't effected?

If I shut my eyes and can't see you, does that mean you can't see me?

[glassngrass]

http://www.syngenta.com.au/Start.asp...oductID=528760

Overview
SPRAY.SEED 250 is a highly effective, fast-acting, non-selective, contact knockdown herbicide. It contains 135 g/L paraquat and 115 g/L diquat.
Recommended Uses
SPRAY.SEED 250 rapidly controls a wide range of annual grasses, broadleaf weeds and some perennial grasses when sprayed directly onto the leaves. SPRAY.SEED is used for non-selective weed control.
Advantages
SPRAY.SEED:
alternative group of chemistry to glyphosate to aid in resistance management
unequalled speed of knockdown, even on the toughest weeds

Benefits
SPRAY.SEED:
rainfast within minutes
unrivalled speed of action
unique mode of action
good activity on hard-to-kill weeds
short spray to sow interval
highly compatible with other herbicides, insecticides
no effect on crop emergence apply pre plant or post plant pre emergence
no hazard to the user or the environment when used as per label directions
no hazard to young vines/trees in horticultural usage - non systemic

Sounds good - but too good!
Toxicity to man is extremely high - wickipedia advises that even a single swig immediately spat out can cause death!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraquat

Interestingly, 93% of fatalities from paraquat poisoning are cases of intentional self-administration, ie, suicides
The reason paraquat is such a widely used suicide agent in third-world countries is due to its widespread availability, low toxic dose (10 mLs or 2 teaspoons is enough to kill) and relative cheapness. There are campaigns to control or even ban paraquat outright.

Yes Eric, I CAN be a serious researcher when motivated...